Self discovery

Don I'm in. As I sit here tapping away on my keyboard though, I am in awe at what is available here at Serious Compacts. I also feel down right ignorant and know I'm way out of my league in my knowledge of this field of photography/art. Earlier in this thread a photographer's name was mentioned. I have no clue who this could be, but fortunately there's Google search and then a whole new world of info has opened. So as you can see I have a lot of learnin' to do. I know how to fly an airplane and that keeps food and a roof over my head, but this small gadget that fits in my hand has a world of its own.
 
In the mean time, while I'm figuring out how to do this so we all don't get crazy or lost...
Check out the most important photographer on the Zone System and self discovery....
No, it's not Ansel... It's Minor White. He was the most gifted mentor in the history of the medium.
 
I'm in the same boat and in the middle of downsizing and consolidating my "gear collection". I learned to accept that all this "camera of the month stuff" doesn't do much for one's photography. And I believe that the newest crop of digital cameras is now mature enough to settle on one or two cameras and keep them for a couple of years rather than changing frenetically. The goal of my "self finding exercise" will be to focus on photography and to work with one or maybe max of two digital cameras/sytems and one film camera for the next two years and to ban myself from any new purchases.

This is very close to where I find myself.

>> The goal of my "self finding exercise" will be to focus on photography and to work with one or maybe max of two digital cameras/sytems and one film camera for the >> next two years and to ban myself from any new purchases.

There is a germ of an idea in this. On another forum I participated a couple of times in something they called "Single in <MonthName>."

The idea here was to shoot one lens or one lens/focal length for a month and post a photo every day. It was exceedingly hard AND liberating at once. I personally expanded the limitations by specifying that I would only shoot one "genre" if you will. It was a genre that I was no good at. I spent time reading about it and immersing myself in it, and the results were very good in the end.

Any possibility that any of you might want to try this?

woof!
 
woof, I would never dictate anything especially what a person should be making photos of. That's about subject matter. The principals I learned and teach aren't subject matter orientated. It's about recognizing your image no matter what you plug your eyes into.
 
I really don't know what you mean by the "zen of photography" Are you saying that you want to be a better photographer, that you want to engage more with your subject matter or you would like to get a better focus for what you are doing and come to some decision about where you want to take it?

I've always believed that photography is instinct disciplined by technique. By this I mean that as a photographer you need to be true to that instinct, and then learn to use it as a starting point to create something special. But first you have to decide, what do you want to photograph? What do you enjoy photographing?

One of the important things I feel, is to understand what makes us pick up the camera and want to press the shutter. What exactly is it that we want to capture, record and preserve? Is it an unrepeatable moment in our lives, is it the way the light catches a plant or a building, is it to find a way of expressing our feelings about being where we are? This is a personal question that we all have to answer. If the answer to the question, is "I like using a camera" then can we call ourselves photographers? My answer would be, No we can't.

Reducing what we see to a two dimensional rectangle, involves understanding what we want to put in those straight lines, and also an understanding of why we want to do it. As long as we have some idea of what the process means to us and helps us to achieve then we may be able to be more sucessful. We don't however need to undestand fully what it means to us, and that will usually only become clear in time. Its good that you ask yourself the questions that you do, but its also perfectly possible to take pictures without having all the answers. The photographer who is 100% satisfied with what they do, is to my mind, a complacent photographer, and I never personally never want to take the "perfect photograph" because what do I do then?

In the meantime, while we are looking for these "answers" there is nothing that should prevent us from getting on with the craft of photography. The more we learn, the more we can do, the less of a mystery the whole thing becomes. The more options we give ourselves, the more possibilities open up and the more pleased we become with what we are producing. Inspiration may arrive less often than we may wish it to, but there's no excuse for not using those other more mundane moments to hone our technique, improve our skills and get ourselves to a position where, if and when the muse does descend, we have the ability to do it justice.


I have been playing with m43 and a variety of different serious compacts for a few years now and I have been really trying to find myself as a photographer. While I realize this has no bearing on anyone but me I figured I'd share. What I'm looking for is the zen of my photography. Not long ago I was on DPReview and saw a bunch of work posted by a fellow in Spain using a Panasonic ZS3. In modern camera years that would be a prehistoric artifact. The work was gorgeous and to be honest (being a former ZS3 owner) I wondered how the heck he could have gotten that camera to produce images like it did. It was like he was some sort of sorcerer and able to get his camera to make images that no one else could (his low light stuff was especially cool).

I have spent way too much time geeking out about gear and far too little time working on my craft. I have been getting some great advice by a few generous souls here (and homework) and have started the process of looking at my work and trying to both make sense of it and understand myself and what my vision is. I have so much to learn and so far to go (and have no idea of I will ever get to that "there" I am looking for) but I am starting to see some patterns emerging and some directions starting to take shape.

What I have come to is that I seek the zen of photography where it is an act of creation that is complete on to itself. Nothing else matters and things like gear, output and all the other buzzwords are just noise to be set aside. What comes of that single act is beautiful and fleeting and if you're lucky you can hope to capture a shadow of it.
 
Ohhhh I want to do this but I am still playing with the new cameras to decide which one, if any, I keep because I really should have something in case my Canon breaks. So depending on the exercises and my time contraints pre-vacation, I may try to join in. :)
 
All this strikes a chord. Minor White was spectacular. It is said the way in which he held and used a ladle was a spectacle to behold. Gary Winogrand spent the first day of a workshop showing his favourite pictures by E Weston & Atget. He didn't care or want to know what kind of camera you had, it didn't matter said he. The next day he took us to a market in Arles & said 'go out and shoot; don't think just shoot'. It was his equivalent of a Master saying 'Practice, practice, practice.'
 
woof, I would never dictate anything especially what a person should be making photos of. That's about subject matter. The principals I learned and teach aren't subject matter orientated. It's about recognizing your image no matter what you plug your eyes into.

Don... Sorry. I failed to read the thread through before I posted this. I was not implying anyone would give subject matter. I was relating that I had entered a challenge that stipulated one lens for a month. I then added my own stipulation as to subject matter.

This had little or nothing to do with anything that you have been saying. In fact it was typed with no real or present knowledge of anything after the post it quoted.

I am sorry. Best to forget what I was blathering on about. <Excuses self>

woof!
 
I apologize for that...the "zen of photography" was a clumsy way to say it but I will try to explain it more clearly. I am a martial artist (sword) and when I use a blade I no longer think of how I move or what goes where to make it do what I want. It is an extension of my body as moves as delicately and surely as my fingers. It moves when I will it to move and the blade and I are one in the same. I have known more than a few swordsmen (and women) that revere the sword and see it as something greater than themselves and their goal is to master it. I am my sword and I have no need to master it any more than I need to master my finger or my foot. When I face multiple attackers I don't think about them. I don't think tactics or assess weaknesses. I don't wait for an attack and I don't have any particular agenda as to what I want to do as a defense. It's called being of no mind. I do not need to consider anything when I fight, I simply act. It's gru it comes form years of training but training alone doesn't get you there. There are a lot of martial artists for whom it is always about stance, balance and the mechanics of what they do...and they thin to much about it. They can be good or even great but there is definitely more to it. It can be a vert transcendant experience to be one with your sword. The thing is it's not about the sword. The same is true of the tea ceremony, calligraphy, ikebana tai chi, even the act of digging a hole. After enough years you start to realize that they're all the same.

What I am trying to do is find that same stillness and nothingness that I have with the sword in photography.


I really don't know what you mean by the "zen of photography" Are you saying that you want to be a better photographer, that you want to engage more with your subject matter or you would like to get a better focus for what you are doing and come to some decision about where you want to take it?

I've always believed that photography is instinct disciplined by technique. By this I mean that as a photographer you need to be true to that instinct, and then learn to use it as a starting point to create something special. But first you have to decide, what do you want to photograph? What do you enjoy photographing?

One of the important things I feel, is to understand what makes us pick up the camera and want to press the shutter. What exactly is it that we want to capture, record and preserve? Is it an unrepeatable moment in our lives, is it the way the light catches a plant or a building, is it to find a way of expressing our feelings about being where we are? This is a personal question that we all have to answer. If the answer to the question, is "I like using a camera" then can we call ourselves photographers? My answer would be, No we can't.

Reducing what we see to a two dimensional rectangle, involves understanding what we want to put in those straight lines, and also an understanding of why we want to do it. As long as we have some idea of what the process means to us and helps us to achieve then we may be able to be more sucessful. We don't however need to undestand fully what it means to us, and that will usually only become clear in time. Its good that you ask yourself the questions that you do, but its also perfectly possible to take pictures without having all the answers. The photographer who is 100% satisfied with what they do, is to my mind, a complacent photographer, and I never personally never want to take the "perfect photograph" because what do I do then?

In the meantime, while we are looking for these "answers" there is nothing that should prevent us from getting on with the craft of photography. The more we learn, the more we can do, the less of a mystery the whole thing becomes. The more options we give ourselves, the more possibilities open up and the more pleased we become with what we are producing. Inspiration may arrive less often than we may wish it to, but there's no excuse for not using those other more mundane moments to hone our technique, improve our skills and get ourselves to a position where, if and when the muse does descend, we have the ability to do it justice.
 
In workshops I have given, I like to give people the same exercise my first photo teacher gave us. At the time we were shooting 35mm film so we were told to take one roll of film, a camera, single focal length lens and take 36 different images of our bathroom. In today's world I have changed the suggestion to 40 or 50 frames of different images from whatever constrictive environment interests you, subway, work place, your street, your car does not really matter as longs it confines you to a place that makes you think and see the subjects and light.
It is a way for you to learn what you see, when you have stop to look at the places, things and people around you.
It is an excise you can do over and over, I just did it today while waiting for my assistants to set up the studio, it keeps you fresh and thinking
 
I apologize for that...the "zen of photography" was a clumsy way to say it but I will try to explain it more clearly. I am a martial artist (sword) and when I use a blade I no longer think of how I move or what goes where to make it do what I want. It is an extension of my body as moves as delicately and surely as my fingers. It moves when I will it to move and the blade and I are one in the same. I have known more than a few swordsmen (and women) that revere the sword and see it as something greater than themselves and their goal is to master it. I am my sword and I have no need to master it any more than I need to master my finger or my foot. When I face multiple attackers I don't think about them. I don't think tactics or assess weaknesses. I don't wait for an attack and I don't have any particular agenda as to what I want to do as a defense. It's called being of no mind. I do not need to consider anything when I fight, I simply act. It's gru it comes form years of training but training alone doesn't get you there. There are a lot of martial artists for whom it is always about stance, balance and the mechanics of what they do...and they thin to much about it. They can be good or even great but there is definitely more to it. It can be a vert transcendant experience to be one with your sword. The thing is it's not about the sword. The same is true of the tea ceremony, calligraphy, ikebana tai chi, even the act of digging a hole. After enough years you start to realize that they're all the same.

What I am trying to do is find that same stillness and nothingness that I have with the sword in photography.

I feel the same about my Bows. Not so much kyudo as I shoot both the English Longbow and the Korean Hwarang...one surpasses technique and goes elsewhere
 
What I am trying to do is find that same stillness and nothingness that I have with the sword in photography.

I would imagine that you didn't get to this state without study and training. The learning processes that you went through and the subsequent ease and confidence that you have attained by this have obviously contributed to your current abilities.

Why imagine that its any different with other sporting or artistic endeavour? My notion of "instinct disciplined by technique" is just that. Without training and practice our instincts can lead us into all sorts of areas that may not be as productive as they might be. As with your martial art, there are no short cuts in photography.
 
I would imagine that you didn't get to this state without study and training. The learning processes that you went through and the subsequent ease and confidence that you have attained by this have obviously contributed to your current abilities.

Why imagine that its any different with other sporting or artistic endeavour? My notion of "instinct disciplined by technique" is just that. Without training and practice our instincts can lead us into all sorts of areas that may not be as productive as they might be. As with your martial art, there are no short cuts in photography.

I think perhaps you are mistaking me saying that I am searching for the zen of photography for something it is not. I am not asking for anyone to show me the way. I appreciate Don coming forth with an offer to mentor just as I do when a particular teacher offers to train me in this or that. I've been at it a long time and there is always more to learn,. That said my OP was really just a statement of the fact that I was coming to understand the path I was on. Nothing more. I appreciate seeing and hearing from other folks such as yourself, Don , Lilli (and pretty much everyone else) but it something that happens from within. I see my path with regards to photography as being very close to the path I have taken with the sword.

It was just an observation.
 
I feel the same about my Bows. Not so much kyudo as I shoot both the English Longbow and the Korean Hwarang...one surpasses technique and goes elsewhere

Indeed...it the elsewhere where we must tread. I've always been fascinated by the longbow. It's such a lovely art. I myself have always wanted to study the Spanish sword. Right now I'm doing a form called Xing Yi Liuhe Quan. It was originally a very linear spear form but it adapts extraordinarily well to open hand. I came to it after a decade of QiGong that I learned while battling cancer. The martial arts really were a life and death struggle for me. So what is the Hwarang like? Is it like Kyudo at all?

Kevin
 
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