Fuji Fuji New Rangefinder form!

Showing my ignorance here but what is so great about a RAW button? Here is their description from their web page:

I don't think there is anything great. You either want to shoot in RAW or you don't, I do not see many people wanting to switch back and forth on a regular basis.

Apparently one can program the Fn button to change the ISO...of course I'd think it would be better to have a dedicated ISO button, rather than a RAW button. I see it's coming with Silkypix. Personally, I pray that Lightroom will be on top of this camera when it comes out.:popcorm2:

Even better drop whatever version of RAW they are going to use and just output to DNG.

Truth be told the buzz around this camera reminds me very much about the buzz for the Sigma DP1 before it came out, with that camera we had years of vaporware press releases and websites just like the Fuji, and in the end the press and review sites were underwhelmed.

The main issue I see with this will come down to cost. It will either be an amazing camera and cost $1500+ which will greatly limit it's market, or it will be a good camera that will cost $1,000 and get nitpicked for all that it should have done better.

I ask myself as good as this camera looks on paper is it really going to be 3X better than the current crop of great $400-$500 compacts such as the LX5, EX1, S95 etc? Or 2x better than the DP1x or DP2s?

Or for that matter better than the m4/3 kit you could put together for $1500?
 
+1 to what Wally says


and IMHO

If you want an RF cam you want a Leica - (generalising, but true) - RF cams are a sport of a very small minority

Only Leica can "obtain" high prices for RF cams - and that's because they are Leica - if Leica were not around I am not sure that there would be a market for RFs especially now because of the advance in "compact" cams

The price/performance of the current crop of DSLRs - like the D90, will just kill any RF cam if it's priced wrong, (and by that I mean - were Fuji will price it)

The market below the really good value DSLR is now "haunted" by (great) sub compacts - they are filling "a gap" even for serious enthusiasts - and they are getting better monthly

I just do not see where this Fuji fits in

They will need more than marketing hype to make money out of it

just IMHO
 
I'll assume for the sake of discussion that they'll nail the implementation and bring it in at a price well below the Leica X1. If they get it right, it looks like a better camera in a number of ways than the X1. That's a big IF I understand. But if they do that, I think there's a market of rangefinder lovers out there that will snap it up. I have no idea how big that market is, but I suspect Fuji does. There are a lot of folks who would never buy that instead of a DSLR or instead of an m43 or instead of an EX-1, LX-5, S95. I'm probably one of those people. But I suspect there are a lot of folks who'd like to try a Leica but for the price and if this comes in anywhere close to a grand, I suspect they'll sell enough of them to meet their market research assumptions. These are all ifs, and maybe the camera won't be that great or they won't be able to bring it in for a competitive price, but I don't think they're going into this naively.

Think of it as the Miata of cameras - Mazda did pretty well those IIRC.

-Ray
 
I'll assume for the sake of discussion that they'll nail the implementation and bring it in at a price well below the Leica X1. If they get it right, it looks like a better camera in a number of ways than the X1. That's a big IF I understand. But if they do that, I think there's a market of rangefinder lovers out there that will snap it up. I have no idea how big that market is, but I suspect Fuji does. There are a lot of folks who would never buy that instead of a DSLR or instead of an m43 or instead of an EX-1, LX-5, S95. I'm probably one of those people. But I suspect there are a lot of folks who'd like to try a Leica but for the price and if this comes in anywhere close to a grand, I suspect they'll sell enough of them to meet their market research assumptions. These are all ifs, and maybe the camera won't be that great or they won't be able to bring it in for a competitive price, but I don't think they're going into this naively.

Think of it as the Miata of cameras - Mazda did pretty well those IIRC.

-Ray

The RD1 was (is) a good camera
 
Well, count me in as one who is very interested in this camera. I sold my Leica X1 for a number of reasons - the biggest for me being its lack of an exposure lock. Yes, yes, I knew it didn't have one when I bought it.:redface: My own fault. I also decided to sell it when I did because I feel that this camera is going to address the things that the X1 should have - or could have...even without a viewfinder, though this X100's viewfinder sounds as though it could be great. Time will tell.

If this camera brings me the same image quality that the X1's files offerered and has a great lens plus the viewfinder and a couple of other things as in exposure lock ;), it will be one I'll definitely be very interested in. I do not plan to order one right off the bat, however. I will wait and see, I've promised that to myself.
 
Lots of good points being made. Even though I am not interested in this camera, I am very happy for the "truer" innovation as it spurs the market forward to that elusive perfect camera. Notwithstanding a few good cameras in Canons lineup, I suspect their marketing decisions would have stayed along increasing megapixels and price points if it weren't for products like the X100.

As to Fuji, I have very fond memories of owning the S602 hybrid DSLR. At the time, it was well designed and innovative. It bodes well for the X100.
 
Like Wally said -- if it's like the DP1, always "about to come out" then it'll have issues. But if it truly comes out in February at a reasonable price (say, around $1,000) I think it'll be a successful niche product. The challenge for Fuji -- this kind of niche-but-sexy product does best in vitalizing interest in a companies other products (think Dodge Viper). Not sure what else Fuji has to sell of mass interest.

Still, I may consider the camera, but it depends on what else is shipping then -- I have Canon, NEX and Oly m43 bodies. If the Fuji came out right now, I'd buy it. If by February, Oly announces an m43 50mm 2.0 macro, or Panny releases a 50mm 1.2 or something, or NEX actually releases some lenses (I have both m43 and NEX) or if Canon were to actually announce/release a mirrorless system, then my attention might be diverted elsewhere.
 
I was just writing to someone a few minutes ago and said that as much as I feel that I have done well with my trusty little LX5, I would love to have a camera that didn't require lots of button pushing and twirling of knobs... You all know what I mean. I miss my OM-1, but I want it digital, small, lightweight and to be what I think this upcoming camera might be. Fingers crossed! I want the Leica X1 w/exposure lock and a superb viewfinder made by whoever can make it with a top notch lens!:026:;)
 
I think this one goes on my "next camera to buy" list. Can't you just imagine putting on your Cartier-Bresson trousers and stalking the streets of Paris for small boys carrying large bottles of wine?
 
:D Now, if Fuji offered some sort of package deal...a Cartier-Bresson tour with special rates on plane tickets for those of us who are a bit farther afield... Hmm, kind of like the Volvo Overseas Delivery Program... John, I think you're on to something with the trousers and streets of Paris, for sure!
 
With all of this retro Cartier-Bresson marketing, one has to ask oneself, if Henri was around today, still doing the ultimate street photography, what tools would he likely be using? He used the best tool for the job in a day and age when there were very few even remotely adequate tools for that particular job. Today there are gobs of them. We'll never know what he'd be using, but I have some guesses and I'd bet money that it wouldn't be an updated digital version of something designed to look and feel like the big old stuff he was using. I bet it'd be something smaller and even less obtrusive, but quick on its feet and flexible.

-Ray
 
With all of this retro Cartier-Bresson marketing, one has to ask oneself, if Henri was around today, still doing the ultimate street photography, what tools would he likely be using? He used the best tool for the job in a day and age when there were very few even remotely adequate tools for that particular job. Today there are gobs of them. We'll never know what he'd be using, but I have some guesses and I'd bet money that it wouldn't be an updated digital version of something designed to look and feel like the big old stuff he was using. I bet it'd be something smaller and even less obtrusive, but quick on its feet and flexible.

-Ray

Street photography needs something silent, small and speedy - an early 50s Leica with a wide-latitude film, for example, so that you don't have to muck about with spot metering and wheezing autofocus abdabs, and so that you don't let everyone see you. The problem with that nowadays, though, is that roughly 50% of the adult population has a camera, and many more people are wise to them - in fact, in most crowd pictures you take there'll probably be someone taking a picture.

WRT the new generation, isn't it striking how they try to establish a family resemblance with the Leicas, Contaxes (and Zorki 4ks) of yesteryear? Can't you imagine the design team: "OK, they all had a knob *there*, so we'll have one too. Now, what can we do with it? And how about a timer-lever doo-hickey on the front - I love those things. OK, that looks nice - what can we use it for? Viewfinder function, right on! Now, how about a rewind knob...?"

All the same the 23mm lens + APS-C sensor is a salivation point. ;)
 
Street photography needs something silent, small and speedy - an early 50s Leica with a wide-latitude film, for example, so that you don't have to muck about with spot metering and wheezing autofocus abdabs, and so that you don't let everyone see you. The problem with that nowadays, though, is that roughly 50% of the adult population has a camera, and many more people are wise to them - in fact, in most crowd pictures you take there'll probably be someone taking a picture.

WRT the new generation, isn't it striking how they try to establish a family resemblance with the Leicas, Contaxes (and Zorki 4ks) of yesteryear? Can't you imagine the design team: "OK, they all had a knob *there*, so we'll have one too. Now, what can we do with it? And how about a timer-lever doo-hickey on the front - I love those things. OK, that looks nice - what can we use it for? Viewfinder function, right on! Now, how about a rewind knob...?"

All the same the 23mm lens + APS-C sensor is a salivation point. ;)

John, I could not agree more. In allot of ways with cams all over, this has NOT helped making pictures easier, but in many way harder. What happens is that people are always on the look out for cams. My motto is that most folks want their picture taken, they just don't know it. Having said that, HCB would have have an easier time in many respects because people would not really be expecting to have their picture made. It has only really been in the last 10-12 years that this camera phase has got out of control. So in order to make a good street picture, you really need to get up close and personal. More on this later, I need to get to work.
 
Street photography needs something silent, small and speedy - an early 50s Leica with a wide-latitude film, for example, so that you don't have to muck about with spot metering and wheezing autofocus abdabs, and so that you don't let everyone see you. The problem with that nowadays, though, is that roughly 50% of the adult population has a camera, and many more people are wise to them - in fact, in most crowd pictures you take there'll probably be someone taking a picture.

WRT the new generation, isn't it striking how they try to establish a family resemblance with the Leicas, Contaxes (and Zorki 4ks) of yesteryear? Can't you imagine the design team: "OK, they all had a knob *there*, so we'll have one too. Now, what can we do with it? And how about a timer-lever doo-hickey on the front - I love those things. OK, that looks nice - what can we use it for? Viewfinder function, right on! Now, how about a rewind knob...?"

All the same the 23mm lens + APS-C sensor is a salivation point. ;)

John, I could not agree more. In allot of ways with cams all over, this has NOT helped making pictures easier, but in many way harder. What happens is that people are always on the look out for cams. My motto is that most folks want their picture taken, they just don't know it. Having said that, HCB would have have an easier time in many respects because people would not really be expecting to have their picture made. It has only really been in the last 10-12 years that this camera phase has got out of control. So in order to make a good street picture, you really need to get up close and personal. More on this later, I need to get to work.
 
With all of this retro Cartier-Bresson marketing, one has to ask oneself, if Henri was around today, still doing the ultimate street photography, what tools would he likely be using?


-Ray

My question is a bit different, with all these wonderful tools we have today where are all the contemporary Henri Cartier-Bresson? Seems we can all take sharp well exposed images but few make great photographs. Maybe it all goes to buttress the truism, cameras doesn't take good the pictures the photographer does. If all I have read about the X100 is true it will be a good tool in the hands of a photographer and an interesting possession for the rest of us.
 
John, I could not agree more. In allot of ways with cams all over, this has NOT helped making pictures easier, but in many way harder. What happens is that people are always on the look out for cams. My motto is that most folks want their picture taken, they just don't know it. Having said that, HCB would have have an easier time in many respects because people would not really be expecting to have their picture made. It has only really been in the last 10-12 years that this camera phase has got out of control. So in order to make a good street picture, you really need to get up close and personal. More on this later, I need to get to work.

I think it kind of does make it easier because if everyone has a camera, I'm less likely to stand out with mine. Which makes it easier to blend in with the crowd, take as good a photo as I'm capable of, and not draw attention to myself. Of course, the form factor of the camera makes a difference. A DSLR pointed at someone will draw attention. A pocket camera won't. The Fuji is gonna be a relatively large camera by today's standards and may well stand out for the reason so many covet it - its appearance. I'm sure its gonna be a fine camera in many respects, but I think a lot of people will buy it for nostalgic reasons rather than because its the best tool for the job.

-Ray
 
My question is a bit different, with all these wonderful tools we have today where are all the contemporary Henri Cartier-Bresson? Seems we can all take sharp well exposed images but few make great photographs. Maybe it all goes to buttress the truism, cameras doesn't take good the pictures the photographer does. If all I have read about the X100 is true it will be a good tool in the hands of a photographer and an interesting possession for the rest of us.

I've actually seen a tremendous amount of really good street photography on the various forums I regularly browse. I've seen some incredible street shots from people using LX3s over the past couple of years and I think the LX5 and other small cams are coming into their own now too. Plenty of pure garbage too, but a good bit that's very, very good, as is the case with any form of art. But I just don't think it tends to be the most popular sort of photography for most viewers. I know my wife and one of my daughters don't get it at all - 'why would you take pictures of people you don't even know?' - is a common reaction. While my other daughter, who has a more artistic bent to begin with, loves the best of the street stuff I do. So there will probably never be another Henri Cartier-Bresson in the same sense that there will probably never be another Beatles or Rolling Stones. There will be other great artists who create totally new forms and some who will do it very well in the spirit of Henri, but it won't be popular in the same way again, I don't think. In the meantime, its great fun for some of us hobbyists much as its fun for me to take the sixth string off of my electric guitar, re-tune to open G, and bash around as if I was a young Keith Richards. Which I most assuredly am not!

I'm just wondering after the Fuji is around a while and everyone who wants one has one, will the photos coming out of it be any more street oriented than that which is coming out of any number of other smaller, less nostalgic looking/acting cameras? We'll see, but I'm having my doubts. As you say, its all about the photographer, not the camera. And there's some great stuff being done with small cameras and even cell phone cams these days, in the right hands.

-Ray
 
My question is a bit different, with all these wonderful tools we have today where are all the contemporary Henri Cartier-Bresson? Seems we can all take sharp well exposed images but few make great photographs.

I actually think that there are plenty of contemporary HCB's out there it is just much harder now to get through the noise. Part of the blessing and the curse of digital photography and the internet is that it is now much easier to both look at photographs and share photographs with anyone anywhere.

In HCBs times the only time you could easily see other photographers work was in a book, magazine, or a gallery or museum, and it was of course very hard for most people to be featured in such.

Today however that is different. We can go out in the afternoon and shoot, upload to flickr or facebook or sites like this one and people from all over the world can see your photographs. You no longer have to be famous or good or both to have you work seen.

So from that perspective it creates a lot of noise that the really good work has to rise above.

Another issue of course is that since it is so easy to share photographs a lot of us myself included share a lot of bad photographs that would have never seen the light of day back then. How many misses did HCB or Ansel Adams make? They both shot full time as photographers for many years yet most people photographers included can only think of maybe a dozen or less photographs that each of them took.

If they were shooting today would they just put those dozen shots on flickr or the hundreds or thousands of misses?
 
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