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A Hypothetical question on Filosofical Friday
- Thread starter drd1135
- Start date
- Location
- Central Ohio, USA
- Name
- Andrew
Ok, I'll play, as I love these kinds of discussions.
Simple answer = No.
I love the feel of a camera and lens, the layout, the ergonomics. A candy bar shape cell phone just does not do it for me for long term shooting outings.
Some of the on screen camera interfaces are quite nice. I know I'm a dinosaur in this regard as more and more things are going toward the mirrorless/touchscreen world. But the Nikon Df and Fuji X-Pro2 are my 2 favorite cameras right now. Something about the tactile feedback of an actual dial for me is just GLORIOUS.
Another thing that I like is having an actual aperture and right now I do not know if any cell phones have a lens system with an actual aperture (I know there is computational photography that can provide simulations of wide open apertures).
Now, with that said - I've still to fully explore the 3 camera system of my new iPhone 11 Pro Max. For a wide angle everyday shooter that is always with me...it could fill that role. Same as a Pixel 4 might be able to. They all have the capability to shoot in RAW now, which is a boon. I learned just how much you can pull from a small sensor when I had the Pentax Q system. I always shot that in RAW an processed later.
This would allow for a more viable option for an EDC camera in good light. I'm still not 100% sold on the low light capabilities. I will say that I was impressed by the Night Site feature on the Google Pixel 2 XL, but it still was not a replacement for my dedicated cameras. That phone was 2 generations old now and the Pixel 4/iPhone 11 engines may have and should have increased the quality.
What I would love to see is a more seamless interaction between camera and phone. I might start a different thread to outline my thoughts/ideas/concepts as not to derail this thread...but I think that one of the big camera companies that does that will propel themselves ahead in the market if they can interface with iOS/Android devices.
Lastly, the majority of what I shoot is fast moving action or requires me to respond to situations quickly. There is still no substitute for that kind of scenarios than the DSLR. Some mirrorless are getting there, i.e. the Sony A9 series. Even the Nikon Z6 and new Canon EOS R cameras are pretty darn close, but not perfect yet.
So, given all that - no - a cellphone camera system would no be my primary system, but I can see it being something that will start killing off the likes of the Ricoh GR and similar cameras that have no viewfinder and a fixed focus lens. The Fuji X100 series or Sony RX series are less affected because of the viewfinder (which I cannot live without for any serious shooting), those rear LCDs are not good for me in daylight. I will say, though that the iPhone 11 Pro Max OLED has been stellar in daylight in regards to visibility!
Simple answer = No.
I love the feel of a camera and lens, the layout, the ergonomics. A candy bar shape cell phone just does not do it for me for long term shooting outings.
Some of the on screen camera interfaces are quite nice. I know I'm a dinosaur in this regard as more and more things are going toward the mirrorless/touchscreen world. But the Nikon Df and Fuji X-Pro2 are my 2 favorite cameras right now. Something about the tactile feedback of an actual dial for me is just GLORIOUS.
Another thing that I like is having an actual aperture and right now I do not know if any cell phones have a lens system with an actual aperture (I know there is computational photography that can provide simulations of wide open apertures).
Now, with that said - I've still to fully explore the 3 camera system of my new iPhone 11 Pro Max. For a wide angle everyday shooter that is always with me...it could fill that role. Same as a Pixel 4 might be able to. They all have the capability to shoot in RAW now, which is a boon. I learned just how much you can pull from a small sensor when I had the Pentax Q system. I always shot that in RAW an processed later.
This would allow for a more viable option for an EDC camera in good light. I'm still not 100% sold on the low light capabilities. I will say that I was impressed by the Night Site feature on the Google Pixel 2 XL, but it still was not a replacement for my dedicated cameras. That phone was 2 generations old now and the Pixel 4/iPhone 11 engines may have and should have increased the quality.
What I would love to see is a more seamless interaction between camera and phone. I might start a different thread to outline my thoughts/ideas/concepts as not to derail this thread...but I think that one of the big camera companies that does that will propel themselves ahead in the market if they can interface with iOS/Android devices.
Lastly, the majority of what I shoot is fast moving action or requires me to respond to situations quickly. There is still no substitute for that kind of scenarios than the DSLR. Some mirrorless are getting there, i.e. the Sony A9 series. Even the Nikon Z6 and new Canon EOS R cameras are pretty darn close, but not perfect yet.
So, given all that - no - a cellphone camera system would no be my primary system, but I can see it being something that will start killing off the likes of the Ricoh GR and similar cameras that have no viewfinder and a fixed focus lens. The Fuji X100 series or Sony RX series are less affected because of the viewfinder (which I cannot live without for any serious shooting), those rear LCDs are not good for me in daylight. I will say, though that the iPhone 11 Pro Max OLED has been stellar in daylight in regards to visibility!
I suspect that my hypothetical might be a great street shooter and family photo shooter. Action and tele applications are probably out. Still, imagine a quantum computational 100MP cell phone sensor. Cropping could do most zooming.
Last edited:
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI USA
- Name
- Luke
within a couple year with computational photography, action and tele will be simple. With the smaller sensor comes deeper DOF....add in predictive AF and pre-shutter release tracking, action will easy to capture as the phone grabs 20 shots.
And 100MP sensors of a size that fit in a cel phone will get better with each iteration, too.
But for me, They need to figure out how to make the act of shooting with a telephone more like shooting with a camera. I want to look through a viewfinder and press a dedicated shutter button. I'd also like to be able to select an aperture by turning a dial on the lens, but I may be able to live without that if they give me a shutter release button and an EVF.
And 100MP sensors of a size that fit in a cel phone will get better with each iteration, too.
But for me, They need to figure out how to make the act of shooting with a telephone more like shooting with a camera. I want to look through a viewfinder and press a dedicated shutter button. I'd also like to be able to select an aperture by turning a dial on the lens, but I may be able to live without that if they give me a shutter release button and an EVF.
- Location
- Newcastle, NSW, Australia
- Name
- Sue
Not for me. I actually don’t take that many photographs with my iPhone, just a quick grab shot once in a while to show something to a friend or two. Like Andrew, I prefer the feel/function of a “proper” camera.
For any shooting seesion longer than, say, a minute, the act of holding a very thin and relatively heavy rectangle by its thinnest dimension simply doesn't work very well for human hands. So unless they provide your hypothetical phone with a case that adds a moderately comfortable grip, an ergonomically positioned shutter button and a dial or two, no.
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI USA
- Name
- Luke
Brian, you're looking at the device "wrong". If my camera starts ringing like a telephone while I'm using it, I let the answering machine get it. I can't be bothered to answer the phone while I'm taking a photo.
I say that mostly in jest. But it's quite clear that you use your smart phone as a phone. Because I have few family members and no friends, I am rarely bothered by the telephone aspect of the device. I use it most often as an internet machine and a camera (when I don't have a real one with me). It functions as a telephone for me around 10 times per week.
I definitely appreciate your position because I love cameras and hate telephones and the idea of them being combined doesn't fill me with hope. But one can only hold out for so long.
- Location
- Seattle
- Name
- Andrew
Yeah nope, not even for a second.
I want my camera to have a comfortable grip. I've flirted with phones with good cameras, the Nokia 1520 still stands out when I look back at the DNG files it created, but phones will never be comfortable - or even safe from dropping - out on the street for picture-making. I'd happily give up an LCD for a small, simple and good "real camera" version of what you're saying, one that's a simple box with a lens and some sort of viewfinder. But for me, phones are more like notepads: I take photos on them to remember things, to make simple photos when I lack anything else handy to use (think of it like a sketch), or to have information handy to refer back to. The utility of a camera that lets you instantly share via SMS or email is not to be beat, but I do that to communicate with specific persons, not to try and impress followers.
I really wanted that Pixii rangefinder camera to become a real product and be priced decently, but it seems like it is vaporware. It's a nice idea, though: a really simple USB-C charged body with a rangefinder and a small e-ink settings screen, meant to be connected to your phone if you really want live view.
Also, I won't spend $1000 on a cellphone, and the best cameras always demand the highest premiums in cellphone sales these days.
I want my camera to have a comfortable grip. I've flirted with phones with good cameras, the Nokia 1520 still stands out when I look back at the DNG files it created, but phones will never be comfortable - or even safe from dropping - out on the street for picture-making. I'd happily give up an LCD for a small, simple and good "real camera" version of what you're saying, one that's a simple box with a lens and some sort of viewfinder. But for me, phones are more like notepads: I take photos on them to remember things, to make simple photos when I lack anything else handy to use (think of it like a sketch), or to have information handy to refer back to. The utility of a camera that lets you instantly share via SMS or email is not to be beat, but I do that to communicate with specific persons, not to try and impress followers.
I really wanted that Pixii rangefinder camera to become a real product and be priced decently, but it seems like it is vaporware. It's a nice idea, though: a really simple USB-C charged body with a rangefinder and a small e-ink settings screen, meant to be connected to your phone if you really want live view.
Also, I won't spend $1000 on a cellphone, and the best cameras always demand the highest premiums in cellphone sales these days.
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
Prob not. I want the tactile and full manual control of an aperture ring, a shutter dial, and the shutter release. I have the latest-ish android phone and the camera function feels sluggish, I'm always fumbling the controls on the touch screen. I don't want to have to swipe to get to the camera and/or its functions. And I loathe the form factor too - it never feels like I have a firm grip on the phone when I'm trying to take a photo with it. I don't want my camera to have to deal with multiple apps and functions at the same time. The software/firmware in my cameras only has one job and shouldn't have to compete for RAM space/speed with other apps. And ... the phone will never have the space for at least an APS-C sensor or larger. I'd very much prefer larger sensors.
Having said that, I might play with it a little IF my android phone offered full manual control, raw, and spot metering.
Having said that, I might play with it a little IF my android phone offered full manual control, raw, and spot metering.
Oh, Luke, give us your number. We’ll call you. Well, at least prank calls.
I would also prefer a normal camera. It just feels better and makes the shooting experience more enjoyable. Nonetheless, I can’t help but think how practically useful a really good phone camera would be. Even now, I use my phone when I see a good picture and don’t have a camera. In the end, it’s always in your pocket. No ergonomically superior camera is going to do that. I think I would eventually give in to the challenge of using it to make photos simply because I would get accustomed to it and it would always be there ready to use.
For the most part any of us who are participating in this forum come from the the dedicated camera camp. In the newest generation of young adults in my world, the photography tool of choice for everything is the phone camera. For me, only in the last year i've begun including a few iPhone images whenever I am out with the intention of doing photography. The portrait mode is hard to beat for people images. And don't underrate video or live view capture. Generally speaking we are a becoming more a niche group .
bilzmale
Hall of Famer
- Location
- Perth, Western Australia
- Name
- Bill Shinnick
At my age, I find the pressing and pointing on a phone too much of a hassle. I like something I can hold and adjust manually, but for my grandkids and even my kids a smart phone is the go. I also find cameras to be mechanical/electronic machines of beauty.
- Location
- Switzerland
- Name
- Matt
Another clear "no" from me. Computational photography sidelines the photographer's capabilities and intentions - and that kills photography for me.
M.
M.
Lightmancer
Legend
- Location
- Sunny Frimley
- Name
- Bill Palmer
Not in a million years. I don't *like* computational photography in the first place, but more fundamentally I find portable telephone photography tedious, sterile and uncomfortable. How anyone can enjoy capturing images with a camera with the form factor of a pop tart is beyond me. I use mine under protest, and largely for joyless, functional record shots, such as of the chalkboard containing the shopping list.
