Adobe is trying to steal users data in Terms of Service

L0n3Gr3yW0lf

L0n3Gr3yW0lf

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https://80.lv/articles/people-aren-t-happy-with-adobe-s-spyware-like-terms-of-service-update/

For those who don't want to click on links or read news articles:

Adobe's new Terms of Service tells uses that Adobe is allowed to access your content through manual and automatic processes for review (probably for use in AI learning).

Not only that but:
1717695279338.png

They are giving themselves free license to your content.

And you can Opt Out (which is not on by default) but you can't do that until you agree to the ToS first ... And thats only for the License to use you content and they still retain access in certain circumstances (which they don't explain what those are either).

I would question why can't we just have a simple process of I give money and they give me access to software, end of story... But then I would have to question the insanity of Silicon Valley... And that's an insane thing to do.

Before everyone starts dropping replies (I should probably make this the first line of the thread) with all the alternatives for Adobe products ... It's not easy moving away from something one used for over 10 years, something that works reasonably well.

I just wish this rapist mentality from corporation that not only all your money belongs to them but so is all your information, personal data, hard work and creations and even you, as an individual and customer, are the product itself for them to profit from (beta testing, AI learning, data siphoning, data selling, advertising profiting, etc).

I have seen this ToS myself last week but I forgot about it because I was in panic mode trying to get access back to Adobe and Lightroom account so I can edit my pictures because of Apple's overzealous and unnecessary military grade encryption and security in Mac OS.
 
To me it's generally boilerplate language. In order to honor your request to share content from your library they need your permission. Adobe is essentially a "container".

For comparison Apple says this:
Except to the extent prohibited by law, you hereby grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, nonexclusive license to use the materials you submit within the Services and related marketing as well as to use the materials you submit for Apple internal purposes. Apple may monitor and decide to remove or edit any submitted material, including via automated content filters and/or human review...

and

...you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you.

That doesn't mean Apple is claiming ownership of your data, and it doesn't mean Adobe is doing so either.

That said, Adobe needs to offer more clarity on what the changes in terms mean and the purpose of doing so.
 
https://www.fastcompany.com/9113783...-adobe-and-every-other-tech-company-right-now

Seems like Adobe is still being vague and unwilling to give good reasons why the change of ToS.
I don't know how much I can trust Adobe now because of their lack of transparency.

I don't use Adobe's cloud storage included in the Photography Plan so I don't expect them to upload RAW or JPEG files but they may still use the Previews for their own purpose and reasons (now or in the future).
 
Bit late to the party on this one. (Life is full.)

@L0n3Gr3yW0lf Thanks for the link. Usually I'm apathetic towards ToS changes but this one got my attention. It came in the middle of a long message exchange discussion with an ex-colleague about the impact of AI on IT and the world generally. He's a fellow photographer and we're both a bit 'miffed' about Adobe's actions to put it mildly.

The prospect of moving from my well established LR/PS workflow to anything else is a daunting one. I have 30K+ carefully ordered and edited images. The amount of time, effort and money required to transfer everything and learn new ways of working is significant. Adobe knows this. (I'd insert a rude word here but suspect I'd get at least a rap on the knuckles from the mods.)

We're a captive customer base especially those using Adobe's cloud storage which I don't and new never will.

First Serif's sale to an online service company, then this. What's next, DxO going belly up? I'm off for tea and chocolate biscuits to raise my mood.
 
I've been waiting for 8 years for Adobe to steal my files and hold me hostage, double the pricing and all the other speculations. Still waiting.

A lot of this frenzy started with the Northrups


In both your account and PS you can select for Adobe not to use your content. Besides they don't anyway. They only used licensed stock photos to train Fire Fly and they have near 250 million.

At the Lightroom Queen's site someone stated another marketing team blunder. There will be another announcement on the 18th.

arstechnica.com

Adobe to update vague AI terms after users threaten to cancel subscriptions

Adobe scrambles to earn back user trust by updating terms next week.
arstechnica.com arstechnica.com

 
Mr_Flibble said:
Louis Rossmann had two interesting videos on it. Particularly the "Crisis Management" reply by Adobe.
Point 4.2 was already in the previous TOS, though.
I'm happily sticking with CS6 without any cloud services, maybe switch over to Affinity.


Click to expand...
I wanted to pink his videos as well but I had a busy week and didn't have the time. I full heartly agree with the Louis's rapist mentality description of Silicon Valley.
 
People have their concerns about Adobe and others just don’t like them which is perfectly fine. There are companies I don’t like.

There are two sides to every story and the key thing is to present all the facts.
 
Am I reading this situation correctly: the use of 'our' images is confined only to those stored on the online services? I don't use these at all. I can't see how Adobe can access let alone upload my images stored locally. Am I missing something here?

If I hadn't moved over to Apple I'd be exploring the acdsee suite.
 
Glevum Owl said:
Am I reading this situation correctly: the use of 'our' images is confined only to those stored on the online services? I don't use these at all. I can't see how Adobe can access let alone upload my images stored locally. Am I missing something here?

If I hadn't moved over to Apple I'd be exploring the acdsee suite.
Click to expand...
Within those links I posted Adobe clearly states it does not scan your computer so you are correct about local storage.
 
Glevum Owl said:
Am I reading this situation correctly: the use of 'our' images is confined only to those stored on the online services? I don't use these at all. I can't see how Adobe can access let alone upload my images stored locally. Am I missing something here?

If I hadn't moved over to Apple I'd be exploring the acdsee suite.
Click to expand...
It's actually a bit more then that, despite what Adobe tries to tell you:
1) You can't refuse to the ToS unless you agree to the changes by not having a disagree button
2) You can opt out of being sub licensed and scrapped for your data but only AFTER you agreed to the ToS changes
3) By closing the ToS changes window Adobe considers you disagree with the ToS and you are locked out of access to the projects you already have working on by refusing access to the Adobe suite.
4) The data scraping is declared by Adobe that it's only from the Cloud based storage and their Stock portfolio service but there are still loop holes that do not mention they will NOT access your local files, most likely previews from your images (RAW and even full size JPEGs might be to time consuming and try to read them or copy).
5) People may and do work on stuff that are under NDA and Adobe want access over your data despite your own situation of your own work.
6) Adobe declared later that user data will not be used for their public and already announced AI projects but that does not cover stuff they have not made public. What Adobe does is considered a business secret and are not entitled to tell you what they do, if there is not affirmative and specific term saying that NO USER DATA IS GOING TO BE USE PERIOD then don't expect them to not do whatever they want.
7) Adobe specified they will track your work methods and process including how you use the software so they can technically figure out how to work and try to automate the process and use it as a product in the future making part of your workflow and job redundant, be it selling it back to you (as a time safer) or to other people (your own clients or your competition).

That's just a few that I can think of right now.
It's been happening with a LOT of companies for the last 12 months, where the ToS is changed after the purchase and with NO OPTION to refused to the new ToS without losing/blocking your access to the device/data you already paid for.
So far these are LG, Adobe, Blizzard-Activision, Discord, Roku, Telstra, Sony, AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Amazon, Vultr, General Motors, Motorola, Netflix, Samsung, ASRock, Apple, and many others.

And a lot of it is also the forced arbitration with change of ToS so user can not fight back if something/anything goes wrong to keep companies safe from incompetence and/or bad customer practices for profitability.
 
Slightly OT but here's another reason not to like Adobe.

My Adobe subscription renews in October. I logged in to my Adobe account to cancel the auto renewal. I can't. There is no way to stop the auto renew.

I therefore have two options:
- continue to pay the monthly fee for the next four months = £40, let the sub renew then try to cancel it within 14 days for a full refund as per Adobe's T&Cs, or
- close my account now and incur an early cancellation fee = £20.

Reluctantly, I choose the latter to be rid of them. I've used PS since v4 and LR since its release but I'm done. I won't do business with those I don't trust.

So I downloaded, am trialling and will most likely buy the following outright:
DAM = ACDsee Photo Studio 10 for Mac, which has improved markedly since I last looked at it,
PP = ON1 Photo RAW 2024 'cos it fulfils my modest needs (backed up with DxO Photolab 6 & Affinity Photo v1 which I own already).

They're both on offer currently and the total cost is more than the Adobe sub but based on current update prices I will save in the long run.
 
Last edited:
L0n3Gr3yW0lf said:
It's actually a bit more then that, despite what Adobe tries to tell you:
1) You can't refuse to the ToS unless you agree to the changes by not having a disagree button
2) You can opt out of being sub licensed and scrapped for your data but only AFTER you agreed to the ToS changes
3) By closing the ToS changes window Adobe considers you disagree with the ToS and you are locked out of access to the projects you already have working on by refusing access to the Adobe suite.
4) The data scraping is declared by Adobe that it's only from the Cloud based storage and their Stock portfolio service but there are still loop holes that do not mention they will NOT access your local files, most likely previews from your images (RAW and even full size JPEGs might be to time consuming and try to read them or copy).
5) People may and do work on stuff that are under NDA and Adobe want access over your data despite your own situation of your own work.
6) Adobe declared later that user data will not be used for their public and already announced AI projects but that does not cover stuff they have not made public. What Adobe does is considered a business secret and are not entitled to tell you what they do, if there is not affirmative and specific term saying that NO USER DATA IS GOING TO BE USE PERIOD then don't expect them to not do whatever they want.
7) Adobe specified they will track your work methods and process including how you use the software so they can technically figure out how to work and try to automate the process and use it as a product in the future making part of your workflow and job redundant, be it selling it back to you (as a time safer) or to other people (your own clients or your competition).

That's just a few that I can think of right now.
It's been happening with a LOT of companies for the last 12 months, where the ToS is changed after the purchase and with NO OPTION to refused to the new ToS without losing/blocking your access to the device/data you already paid for.
So far these are LG, Adobe, Blizzard-Activision, Discord, Roku, Telstra, Sony, AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, Amazon, Vultr, General Motors, Motorola, Netflix, Samsung, ASRock, Apple, and many others.

And a lot of it is also the forced arbitration with change of ToS so user can not fight back if something/anything goes wrong to keep companies safe from incompetence and/or bad customer practices for profitability.
Click to expand...
Sure there is more to it but let's wait until the 18th when Adobe announces again. Either they change something or just clarify. Besides it's not just Adobe. Someone on another site discovered that DXO tracks your usage.
 
Glevum Owl said:
Slightly OT but here's another reason not to like Adobe.

My Adobe subscription renews in October. I logged in to my Adobe account to cancel the auto renewal. I can't. There is no way to stop the auto renew.

I therefore have two options:
- continue to pay the monthly fee for the next four months = £40, let the sub renew then try to cancel it within 14 days for a full refund as per Adobe's T&Cs, or
- close my account now and incur an early cancellation fee = £20.

Reluctantly, I choose the latter to be rid of them. I've used PS since v4 and LR since its release but I'm done. I won't do business with those I don't trust.

So I downloaded, am trialling and will most likely buy the following outright:
DAM = ACDsee Photo Studio 10 for Mac, which has improved markedly since I last looked at it,
PP = ON1 Photo RAW 2024 'cos it fulfils my modest needs (backed up with DxO Photolab 6 & Affinity Photo v1 which I own already).

They're both on offer currently and the total cost is more than the Adobe sub but based on current update prices I will save in the long run.
Click to expand...
Here is my experience. I was on the annual plan and decided to go monthly. You can't do that online. I called Adobe and they closed my account, created a new one and that was it. That took about 10 minutes and nothing including my website was affected. Something can always achieved. If not online - call them.
 
So, my thousands of images, some that I sold and some I probably should have deleted are possibly going to be used by Adobe. As a lawyer, I am more aware of the copyright laws and at least in the US, probably take precedence over a ToS. I got to tell you that I am not losing any sleep at night or during my naps over Adobe and my images. I guess that if I really was concerned about usage, I would copy a huge bunch onto a thumb drive and register it with the copyright office but to tell the truth, I have more important things to worry about like health and income. My wife made her money from her images and you can bet she had them copyrighted if she thought that they were worthy of her concern. Another thing to worry about including all the speculations of the new Nikon Z6 iii which I also am not going to lose sleep over.
 

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