Film Advice or Opinions please

[MiguelATF]

After years of mainly shooting just digital, I'm considering dipping my toes back in to the large and tumultuous ocean of film. Quick confession: I only shot film on Pentaxes (mainly MX's) for decades, way back in the dark analog ages. No rangefinders, I prefer SLRs. And I've come to like a few modern amenities (like autofocus or autoexposure of varying kinds). My most recent film camera was a Pentax MZ-3 which I never really gelled with... mainly because it was too plasticky and I prefer a more solid feeling camera.

The two that most interest me now are the Pentax Super Program (aka Super A) - and the Minolta XD series (XD11 in the U.S., XD7 in Europe, just plain XD in Japan). I have a few questions about both of them, and a purchase in general--

Does anyone have direct experience with with either the XD or the Super P - and care to share their thoughts?
Any idea which (if either) might be more reliable or trouble-free?
(and this one may just be common sense, but) Is it worth buying a more expensive camera which has already been CLA'ed?
Finally... where to find one? Neither KEH nor MPB have either in stock. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions (apart from the usual suspects - fleabay, craigslist, FM forums)

Addendum: the advantage to Pentaxes is that I already have a handful of K-mount lenses. I thought about an LX but these days they seem to be on the too-pricey-for-what-I'm-hoping-to-spend side. Ditto for the Pentax MZ-S (which are so cool). And I have to admit, my old MZ-3 looked nice...

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[Iron]

Does anyone have direct experience with with either the XD or the Super P - and care to share their thoughts?

Any idea which (if either) might be more reliable or trouble-free?

I have no experience with the XD but Super As are ridiculously reliable.

(and this one may just be common sense, but) Is it worth buying a more expensive camera which has already been CLA'ed?

Yes, If the camera has bee CLAed, usually, they also have a service warranty.

I thought about an LX but these days they seem to be on the too-pricey-for-what-I'm-hoping-to-spend side

Ah the LX is just a bit too popular, nowadays, with its weather-sealing. Everyone I know here and overseas is just looking for it. It used to be very well-priced but when the younger generation found out that it was weather-sealed and that there were parts for the sealing, the prices just skyrocketed.

the advantage to Pentaxes is that I already have a handful of K-mount lenses.

Yes, I currenly have the SFX with the AA battery grip and all my lenses work with it, even the APS-C ones. The HD D FA 24-70mm had been used on it before, although at the widest aperture only, F2.8, and at manual focus. The backwards and forwards compatiblity is just so satisfying.

Ditto for the Pentax MZ-S (which are so cool)

The MZ-S is a properly cool camera. It is also the base chassis for the MZ-D, which was supposed to be the first ever digital FF ILC. It didn't happen and, after a few ownership changes after the prototype, and 17 years after that 1999 prototype, their first ever digital FF ILC was released under Ricoh.

 

[MiguelATF]

I have no experience with the XD but Super As are ridiculously reliable.

Yes, If the camera has bee CLAed, usually, they also have a service warranty.

Ah the LX is just a bit too popular, nowadays, with its weather-sealing. Everyone I know here and overseas is just looking for it. It used to be very well-priced but when the younger generation found out that it was weather-sealed and that there were parts for the sealing, the prices just skyrocketed.

Yes, I currenly have the SFX with the AA battery grip and all my lenses work with it, even the APS-C ones. The HD D FA 24-70mm had been used on it before, although at the widest aperture only, F2.8, and at manual focus. The backwards and forwards compatiblity is just so satisfying.

The MZ-S is a properly cool camera. It is also the base chassis for the MZ-D, which was supposed to be the first ever digital FF ILC. It didn't happen and, after a few ownership changes after the prototype, and 17 years after that 1999 prototype, their first ever digital FF ILC was released under Ricoh.

Thanks, Timo, this is very helpful. I'm assuming you really like you SFX, correct? Just two questions about it - how does the size compare to that of other Pentaxes? And - are the controls arcane and hard-to-figure-out - or logical and relatively easy to master?

 

[Iron]

I'm assuming you really like you SFX, correct?

Yes, I got it for NZD40.00, actually, condition unknown, and when I opened the weather sealed aluminium box, the whole camera kit was completed dry like it was preserved in time.

how does the size compare to that of other Pentaxes?

With the AA battery grip, it's around the weight of the KF but the grip makes it easy to handle. The AA battery grip protrudes a bit but it makes the grip much more substantial, the AF a bit faster and I don't have to charge/change the batteries for more than a year. The grip makes it feel like it's just 560g instead of 680g.

Here are photos of the K-3 with the FA 50mm F1.7, my current Single-In kit, and the SFX with the FA 43mm F1.7.

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Here's how a similar-bodied SF1 looks like without the AA battery grip, courtesy of Pentax Forums:

And - are the controls arcane and hard-to-figure-out - or logical and relatively easy to master?

The controls are straightforward. The ones on the SFX, a Pentax-F era camera, are rather straightforward, although their is just one button-type control module, kind of similar to the K200D. The SF1/SF7 can use the same AA grip but it has two control modules. The button-type controls SF1 or SF7 are closer to the the dual-control-wheeled cameras that we have today.

The SFx models, just like the Pentax-F lenses, have a much sturdier build than their 90s counterparts. The design of these SFx cameras, though, shout the 80s era.

 

[DaveNJ]

The two that most interest me now are the Pentax Super Program (aka Super A) - and the Minolta XD series (XD11 in the U.S., XD7 in Europe, just plain XD in Japan). I have a few questions about both of them, and a purchase in general--

Finally... where to find one? Neither KEH nor MPB have either in stock. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions (apart from the usual suspects - fleabay, craigslist, FM forums)

Besides those usual suspects I'd recommend setting up a WTB thread on Photrio and Pentax Forums. I don't know if there is a Minolta forum but the Pentax ones are really active. Etsy might be a decent place to search as well (in fact I saw an XD11 on there), treat it like eBay. Kamerastore out of Europe seems solid with their certification process. Blue Moon Camera is another solid option. The latter two do 6 months warranty on their tested and passed stuff iirc.

 

[agentlossing]

The Z-1p (or PZ-1p) is the unsung hero for Pentax AF SLRs, in my opinion. You can get them very cheaply, and they're reliable and solid cameras. Plus, if you get the factory faux battery grip (no added functionality) it's an incredibly comfortable camera to carry. Paid it with the 1.7/50 (or the 2/35) for late film-era Pentax perfection.

Also, consider Konica SLRs. Their glass is very nice!

 

[MiguelATF]

Besides those usual suspects I'd recommend setting up a WTB thread on Photrio and Pentax Forums. I don't know if there is a Minolta forum but the Pentax ones are really active. Etsy might be a decent place to search as well (in fact I saw an XD11 on there), treat it like eBay. Kamerastore out of Europe seems solid with their certification process. Blue Moon Camera is another solid option. The latter two do 6 months warranty on their tested and passed stuff iirc.

Thanks for the suggestions, Dave - especially Photrio - I was only vaguely aware of them and it's an excellent idea. So is Etsy but in my experience there are all kinds of old cameras being sold on Etsy by people who (sigh) know either nothing or very little about cameras, but don't hesitate to make inflated sounding (to me, anyway) claims about their value or functionality. But, that said, it's a good soure.

Being out in Oregon, I was already aware of Blue Moon up in Portland, they are great. Kamerastore is interesting... but a bit "farther afield" metaphorically speaking.

 

[fredlong]

I had an XD11 back in the 80’s. It’s a great camera. When the OM-4 came out with multi spot metering I jumped to Olympus. Looking back, I like the look of the Minolta lenses better. In fact they’ve become my favorite vintage lenses for adapting to modern cameras.

I don’t know when Minolta went to auto focus but the XD series didn’t have it.

Unless it’s a completely mechanical body, I’d go for one that’s already been cla’d with a warranty. I suppose I’d risk something really inexpensive.

Good luck with the search!

 

[MiguelATF]

The Z-1p (or PZ-1p) is the unsung hero for Pentax AF SLRs, in my opinion. You can get them very cheaply, and they're reliable and solid cameras. Plus, if you get the factory faux battery grip (no added functionality) it's an incredibly comfortable camera to carry. Paid it with the 1.7/50 (or the 2/35) for late film-era Pentax perfection.

Also, consider Konica SLRs. Their glass is very nice!

Thanks for the suggestions, Andrew. I've read your accounts of them and from what everyone says, they are great and underrated cameras. My only hesitation comes from my fondness for cameras with simpler (possibly more old-fashioned or semi-analog) controls. But I'll definitely give them some thought.

 

[MiguelATF]

I had an XD11 back in the 80’s. It’s a great camera. When the OM-4 came out with multi spot metering I jumped to Olympus. Looking back, I like the look of the Minolta lenses better. In fact they’ve become my favorite vintage lenses for adapting to modern cameras.

I don’t know when Minolta went to auto focus but the XD series didn’t have it.

Unless it’s a completely mechanical body, I’d go for one that’s already been cla’d with a warranty. I suppose I’d risk something really inexpensive.

Good luck with the search!

Thanks for the suggestion, Fred. Actually, come to think of it, the OM-4 was a truly great camera as well - and probably should be on my short list as well. I seem to recall they had a titanium-body version which was weather-proofed and whose sealing lasted forever. And a superb metering system. Damn... decisions, decisions, decisions.

 

[drd1135]

After years of mainly shooting just digital, I'm considering dipping my toes back in to the large and tumultuous ocean of film. Quick confession: I only shot film on Pentaxes (mainly MX's) for decades, way back in the dark analog ages. No rangefinders, I prefer SLRs. And I've come to like a few modern amenities (like autofocus or autoexposure of varying kinds). My most recent film camera was a Pentax MZ-3 which I never really gelled with... mainly because it was too plasticky and I prefer a more solid feeling camera.

The two that most interest me now are the Pentax Super Program (aka Super A) - and the Minolta XD series (XD11 in the U.S., XD7 in Europe, just plain XD in Japan). I have a few questions about both of them, and a purchase in general--

Does anyone have direct experience with with either the XD or the Super P - and care to share their thoughts?
Any idea which (if either) might be more reliable or trouble-free?
(and this one may just be common sense, but) Is it worth buying a more expensive camera which has already been CLA'ed?
Finally... where to find one? Neither KEH nor MPB have either in stock. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions (apart from the usual suspects - fleabay, craigslist, FM forums)

Addendum: the advantage to Pentaxes is that I already have a handful of K-mount lenses. I thought about an LX but these days they seem to be on the too-pricey-for-what-I'm-hoping-to-spend side. Ditto for the Pentax MZ-S (which are so cool). And I have to admit, my old MZ-3 looked nice...


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My last film camera was an MZ-S. It was such a fine camera. Three AF points, left, right and middle. I had the grip, which was important in the days of disposable batteries. The grip fit so perfectly you could see what the digital body would have looked like. Supposedly, the MZ-D would have looked like an integrated double grip body (but the bottom wasn’t actually a second grip but rather a flared bottom) using the Phillips 6 MP FF sensor. The sensor had issues, however, and Pentax turned the body into the film-based MZ-S and a removable grip. My first DSLR came some years later as the Pentax *ist D. Thanks for jogging that fond memory.

 

[fredlong]

Thanks for the suggestion, Fred. Actually, come to think of it, the OM-4 was a truly great camera as well - and probably should be on my short list as well. I seem to recall they had a titanium-body version which was weather-proofed and whose sealing lasted forever. And a superb metering system. Damn... decisions, decisions, decisions.

The OM-4 metering system was unique. It averaged up to nine spot readings and displayed them along with the average. It would let me see the dynamic range in the scene and decide where to place the exposure. The only thing I’ve experienced that’s better is live view in a mirrorless camera.

The drawback to trying to put together an Olympus kit is the lenses are kind of pricey. And if you want to stick to autofocus, Olympus never did that.

 

[MiguelATF]

My last film camera was an MZ-S. It was such a fine camera. Three AF points, left, right and middle. I had the grip, which was important in the days of disposable batteries. The grip fit so perfectly you could see what the digital body would have looked like. Supposedly, the MZ-D would have looked like an integrated double grip body (but the bottom wasn’t actually a second grip but rather a flared bottom) using the Phillips 6 MP FF sensor. The sensor had issues, however, and Pentax turned the body into the film-based MZ-S and a removable grip. My first DSLR came some years later as the Pentax *ist D. Thanks for jogging that fond memory.

This is what Pentax's prototype of their full-frame 6Mb MZ-D looked like back in 2001--

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--it almost looks like a precursor to the E-M1x and to a ton of other modern cameras as well.
The MZ-S was supposedly plagued by a number of minor but usually fatal details which affected other less costly MZ autofocus Pentaxes... but even so, I'd love to try one out some day (assuming it was actually still working)

 

[Iron]

My only hesitation comes from my fondness for cameras with simpler (possibly more old-fashioned or semi-analog) controls.

Ah, the fully mechanical ones, right? The Super A is one of those. I am after a good copy myself.

Pentax mentioned K-Mount film cameras depending on the success of the Pentax 17 and one of those is a fully-mechanical one. It may be out in 10, 15 or 20 years? I am not sure, knowing Pentax.

Thanks for jogging that fond memory.

It's a good thread, actually. It brings back a lot of memories of those analogue years.