Leica After the homewrecking incident, what to do with the shrapnel

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
So I had the fling with Df. It lasted about 7 days and I did have fun
with the prime once it arrived (not so much with the zoom). The
problem is that Df is too good. It is too nice to use, the sensor is
too great, the lenses too good for the value. I saw immediately that
prolonged relationship with it will mess up my good thing with Leica.

With Df and the soft zoom returned in time, I can sigh from relief. It
felt bad to return a perfectly fine camera, if not a perfect camera,
but I can always return to it if circumstances change.

I have these two lenses as shrapnel from the incident.

- 85 f/1.8 AF-D
- 28-70 AF-D

The 85 is really great. I bet all the AF-D lenses with low element
counts are superb. The compact zoom I didn't have chance to test out,
sadly.

So, what to do?

- Sell/trade these two for something else? 🤨
- Keep them in the boxes until something happens with Leica? :)
- Buy an F-M adapter to be used on my Leica M? :eek:
- Buy a Leica SL, the old king of mirrorless cameras? :D


The SL thing is an old fantasy, I believe it's soon going to die. The
benefit of SL is that it pretty much adapts all the lenses out there.
Like CaNiSony but with the added benefit of adapting M lenses really
nicely. And I believe the German design on the UI and body is toppest
of notches.

Getting an adapter to adapt Nikon F to Leica M, and then using the
live view capabilities of my MP 240 makes sense in theory. But is it
going to be *any* fun using the slow and pixelated and laggy MP EVF
for this purpose. It should kind of work out because I'd still be
shooting 90 % native M lenses and the 10 % other ones. Leica M10
supposedly offers a more contemporary live view experience but I
haven't been able to test the camera out anywhere.

In any event, trading up my MP240 for an M10 or M10P is more costly
than just buying an SL alongside my MP... This is my main dilemma at
the moment. Also, the chances are very high that the new M11 that
might or might not come out next year is not going to offer any big
improvements in its EVF approach. And I don't even know if the M10
already wouldn't be perfect. Things like delays and lags can't be seen
in Youtube videos, one'd have to see the camera in person.

But yes, Leica SLs are dropping to around 2200-2500 € and that's a
camera that's beating a great many current MILC cameras easy peasy.


The big sadness is also about the fact that having handled Df for a
bit, many of its shortcomings would be greatly amplified in SL. Df is
pretty much like I anticipated, it's an "analog" camera in that its
viewfinder, its metering and its autofocus probably aren't as digital
as mirrorless cameras are. There's a high chance SL would fail me in
the fun factor in some ways Df didn't.

Yet again, there's no denying SL wouldn't have its pros and with these
values it's going these days there's not much of a loss crossing that
camera out of my bucket list...


What about M43?

.71x speedboosted 85/1.8 becomes a 60/1.3
.64x speedboosted 85/1.8 becomes a 55/1.2

In other words, a nice long portrait lens. But sadly I have no use for
portrait lenses for m43.


PS

I'm so happy with the Panasonic GX80 also. In that sense a push towards the heavier FF gear is not as appealing as it once was.

Heh... during my Nikon fever days I already envisioned my future with the Df, an affordable 810 as the second body, heavy tele lenses and a full on backbag to haul all that around... That idea seems again so unnecessary.
 
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The Manual Focus Nikkor lenses would be better for using with an F-Mount adapter on the M240. The AF lenses- just do not have the dampening that I love. I use the AF lenses mostly as ... AF lenses.

BUT- the adapter is cheap, try it for yourself.

You can place an ad here, I know some members are looking for these lenses.
You can put up a want-to-trade, eith er for Leica mount lenses or for Manual focus lenses.

My Df lives in peaceful harmony with my Leica's. Each have about 100 lenses available to them.
Kind of like the Washington Naval Treaty of 1925. Building arsenals of lenses is balanced 1:1. The Kodak Retina cameras - only about 20 lenses, Canon FD mount- they whine and complain a lot.
 

William Lewis

Veteran
Location
Hayward WI
Real Name
William Lewis
I've been finding that I like the older AF/AF-D lenses better than the newer AF-S lenses. Not sure why - a little smaller, yet feel better made than the super light plastic fantastic. OTOH, I can't complain optically - the 35/1.8 DG is amazing.

I owned Leica in the past and loved the IIIf especially. But I'm doing Nikon now and having loads of fun with it. Such, as the saying goes, is life :thumbsup:
 

William Lewis

Veteran
Location
Hayward WI
Real Name
William Lewis
There is also the G lens issues. I'm not as annoyed as some by the lack of an actual aperture ring since it can be done by the dials on the camera but by the same token I don't care to lose the options.
 

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
The Manual Focus Nikkor lenses would be better for using with an F-Mount adapter on the M240. The AF lenses- just do not have the dampening that I love. I use the AF lenses mostly as ... AF lenses.

BUT- the adapter is cheap, try it for yourself.

Yes these lenses are definitely not dampened and for a good reason. But I couldn't exactly say I hated the feeling. :)

Is there a maker you can recommend? I don't know if I want to spend $20 on an adapter that fouls up the distance scales or infinity focus for example. As such I'm only eyeing the Novoflex products which are quite pricey.

My Df lives in peaceful harmony with my Leica's.

I wish that was the case for me. Not a week and I felt it in my bones that this cohabitation between Df and M is going to break something in me. Both have their own downsides but Df was being too solid for its own good.

There is also the G lens issues.

My main problem with the AF-S lens was that it focused too smoothly. There's no feedback about whether the lens focused or not. I like the little vibration and noise from the screw drive. Similar to Fujifilm lineup, there's a frustrating decision to be had in Nikkorland, whether you want optical excellence at the cost of reduced haptics or want less performance but better feeling lenses... This is the one thing I can avoid in Leica world.
 
Is there a maker you can recommend? I don't know if I want to spend $20 on an adapter that fouls up the distance scales or infinity focus for example. As such I'm only eyeing the Novoflex products which are quite pricey.
Beware that the Novoflex adapters intentionally are made a little bit short, causing infinity focus at a focus scale position just before ∞. I think I read somewhere that they are 0.07 mm short. I just checked a Novoflex adapter for Minolta with a Minolta MD 2/28 at f/2.8 on my Sony A7Rm4 and ∞ focus sits at roughly 6 m which would correspond with the adapter being roughly 0.1 mm short; at f/8 infinity focus sits at 3 m, that's focus shift for ya :).

Once I bought an adapter on eBay from a Polish supplier who claimed his adapter had exactly the correct register distance. He might well have been right; his Canon FD adapter didn't allow infinity focus on some of my FD lenses, so I bought a Novoflex adapter which solved the problem. The Polish adapter is now used for the Canon FD Macro 4/200, where infinity focus is hardly ever necessary. Most cheap Chinese adapters are also a little bit short, mostly even more so than the Novoflex adapters, but I also got adapters which were not short and that can be a problem. With the magnified view of a good finder like the one in the Leica SL you will notice that focus shift is all too common and that setting focus to the ∞ mark hardly ever means that the lens is focused exactly at infinity. That's what they call opening a can of worms.

Some people claim that an adapter should have the exact register distance when using lenses with floating focusing. While this is theoretically correct, I doubt if this is going to cause problems in practice. Coincidentally I was testing this afternoon with a few 28mm lenses because the Zeiss Distagon 2.8/28 (Contax) isn't very good at close-up so I pulled out a few Minolta 2/28 lenses that have floating focusing, and used with the Novoflex adapter they were significantly sharper at close quarters than the non-floating-focusing Zeiss.

Yes, Novoflex adapters are expensive and to be honest, I'm not completely sure that they're worth all the money. I bought them used for most of the common legacy lens mounts and they serve me well, but a lot of Chinese adapters work well too, although you might have to look for an alternative if you get one that is too long for your lens(es) or produces internal reflections.
 

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
Beware that the Novoflex adapters intentionally are made a little bit short, causing infinity focus at a focus scale position just before ∞.
Thank you, very informative. I will have to google up what's the story with this intentional 0.07 mm shift.

Naturally I hardly ever rely on the distance scales on any camera; sometimes the precise focus is not necessary for the shot and then I just focus my lens by the hard stop minus a tiny movement. I guess this is a playful luxury I better leave for the M cameras or whatever systems that still use hard-stop focus rings ;)

I'm guessing the adapters are all made a bit short to allow tolerances in both the lenses and the adapters themselves. Worst case scenario, the adapter would be too thick and infinity wasn't possible.

But I sure like my focus distance scales, although I also like if I don't have to pay 170 euros for a piece of metal :)


(Reminds me, the Leica M-SL adapter is 400 € 😵 😵)
 
I just checked my adapter- bought over 10 years ago. Made in Japan, but I don't think it is available any longer.
I used it with Scale Focus on my M8, mostly with a Nikkor 24mm F2.8.

If you get an inexpensive adapter, and it is on the Short Side: you could hack out a custom shim to move the F-Mount farther out in the Tube.
 

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
The adapter finally arrived. It surely took its sweet time :)

Took it for a 5 mi test walk.

Some shots I spread around the place.


Like the other times when I use the pretty antique M liveview with the VF-2 that has terrible tearing, long shutter delay, poor contrast and color, I get first very frustrated with the experience but then gain speed and confidence.

2020-05-28-17-32-MP008845.jpg


For example timing action you have to open the other eye to see what's actually in front of the camera at the moment but it's somewhat workable.

There is no denying that F lenses are at their coziest mounted on Nikon bodies. Automatic aperture control, great zero-lag OVF, way better weight distribution, Nikon high-ISO performance and, of course, super comfy autofocus performance.

I love this 85 D too much. I probably made a big mistake sending Df back. I've been thinking these two systems can coexist. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a Df that I get.

2020-05-28-17-26-MP008837.jpg


Frankly I don't even know if want to experiment with Leica 90mm 2.8's even though they'd work very well. Leica is a camera for street things and 90mm is not a street FL in that sense for me. It sure could be, but the benefit of autofocus becomes ever important so it's a tough consideration.

2020-05-28-17-24-MP008832.jpg


But all things considering my current situation is not terrible. :D
 
My Leicas and Nikons coexist beautifully.
The Nikon SLR's see the Nikkor lenses on my Leica and Contax cameras and just think they are one, big happy family. The Contax's see the Zeiss Opton on the modified Nikon S2, feel the same way. My Leicas have more choice in lenses than all of them, and are very happy.

Now the Canon F1 and EF: I modified Nikon F2 cases for them. The Nikons don't suspect anything.
 

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
Today I had the pleasure of strolling my neighborhood with the 28-70 ASPH. It's a nice lens to be sure!

Some shots scattered around:

Show: Random Picture Thread!!!

Show "Flowers"
Nature - Trees
Daily May 29
Show "Flowers"
Show Contextual Bokeh!
https://cameraderie.org/threads/color-photographs.643/page-89#post-382021
https://cameraderie.org/threads/color-photographs.643/page-89#post-382022
https://cameraderie.org/threads/colourful.14281/page-4#post-382023

Great lens. Fantastic micro contrast, even pop at times.

I'm somewhat getting accustomed to the Leica EVF experience. The focus peaking algorithm that they decided to incorporate to the live view is pleasantly accurate, which is not always the case. So one can actually trust the peaking.

I believe Leica M10 with its somewhat improved live view would be so much better but it's a lot of money.

Regardless, I'm somewhat determined now that I should seek to reacquire the Df when one comes by at a similar price than the first one.
 

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
Df is still in stock if one wants to buy new, and support Nikon. Distributors don't stock that camera but Nikon's own local presence has it for sale, both colors.

At 1899 € (in UK markets 1600 GBP) it's priced somewhat competitively. That is, if someone insists on getting brand new. I'm more about comparing it to the used ones that go for 900-1k € with varying quality.

I've made the (financial) mistake of buying a camera body brand new twice so far. Who knows if Nikon Df will be the lucky third? (Probably not but just yapping my mouth :D)
 
I've made the (financial) mistake of buying a camera body brand new twice so far.
I prefer to buy used lenses, but I'm very weary of buying a used camera body from a private person. There's so much that can be wrong with a camera, that I want to have a solid form of guarantee, so I buy from reputable shops only. I once bought a used Nikon F3 that looked fine, but soon I discovered that the body must have been warped, my pictures were never sharp across the frame. Claimed a repair or replacement with the shop and they had it repaired by the Nikon distributor; the shopkeeper told me it ate all of his profits on the camera.
 

mike3996

Hall of Famer
Location
Finland
To get the ball rolling, I placed my seldom-used 50 Summilux ASPH for sale. It sure beats all them fifties, not only in IQ but also in ergonomics. But then again, the heft somewhat offsets the ergonomic benefits. In any event, my Voigtländer pair of 50/1.5 + 50/3.5 handily substitute my Lux in almost every scenario, surpassing it in select situations and falling short in others.

This money more than funds any decisions I might have wrt Nikon Df. 👀

At the same time, I learned my lesson about selling fifties so I won't take any old lowball coming my way.
 
The adapter finally arrived. It surely took its sweet time :)

Took it for a 5 mi test walk.

Some shots I spread around the place.


Like the other times when I use the pretty antique M liveview with the VF-2 that has terrible tearing, long shutter delay, poor contrast and color, I get first very frustrated with the experience but then gain speed and confidence.

View attachment 224187

For example timing action you have to open the other eye to see what's actually in front of the camera at the moment but it's somewhat workable.

There is no denying that F lenses are at their coziest mounted on Nikon bodies. Automatic aperture control, great zero-lag OVF, way better weight distribution, Nikon high-ISO performance and, of course, super comfy autofocus performance.

I love this 85 D too much. I probably made a big mistake sending Df back. I've been thinking these two systems can coexist. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a Df that I get.

View attachment 224189

Frankly I don't even know if want to experiment with Leica 90mm 2.8's even though they'd work very well. Leica is a camera for street things and 90mm is not a street FL in that sense for me. It sure could be, but the benefit of autofocus becomes ever important so it's a tough consideration.

View attachment 224190

But all things considering my current situation is not terrible. :D
Am I right, these are with 85 AF-D?
Anyways, I really like these. It’s maybe the tighter composition which pleases my eye. And the target separation with shorter DoF. 👍
 

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