All things Hi-Fi and Audio - show and tell and discussion

[The Electric Squirrel]

Totally agree. Thats why I chose drivers that will play nice together in a first order setup…something I suppose I wouldn’t need to give any thought about if I was only using 1 speaker. The only time I’ve ever bothered with a second order is if I’m using a more exotic tweeter like a ribbon that just needs a bit more protection at the lower xover frequencies I prefer, or building the occasional 3-way system.

Single source was all the rage over here too for a little…I never jumped on board that one. I like my 2-way systems too much. Those are certainly good looking speakers though. Hopefully you aren’t a masochist too often!

I got the Abbies out of curiosity and maybe a bit of nostalgia. I used to know a guy who held these hifi-gatherings every now and then not too far from where I live, and he had a setup consisting of a turntable (Michell Gyro SE, later upgraded to an Avid Volvere, SME tonearms in both), a Naim Nait 2 and a pair of Abbies. I remember liking the sound of that system, so now more than a decade later I bought the Abbies without listening at sight, since they were on sale for dirt cheap, and I wanted something in the guest room in the meantime before I get the 8" coaxes finished.

Now, I used to wonder why that guy liked that Naim amp so much. I had it in for a while for a potentiometer replacement, and tried it in my own setup, and found it hopelessly dark and muddy sounding. Now I know... That muddy sound played well with the shouty nature of those Fostex drivers.

Some single driver speakers have their merits, to be fair. Mostly they are 4" or smaller and make not a lot of bass.

Back to crossovers... I really don't care much for what the electrical slope of a crossover is, as long as I get the acoustical slopes to match and do that at a point I want them to. That is usually at a point where their directivity patterns also match as closely as possible. I know controlled directivity is a very finnish thing in loudspeakers, but there is some sense to it...

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

Yeah. Speaking as someone who comes to this from the pro audio side, most folks on the extreme simplicity side of audiophilia would likely be appalled if they took a look at typical rigs, studio gear, and how tracks are laid. Placebo effects aside, a lot of what I see going on in hi-fi is consumers compensating for poor engineering. There's bad gear on the pro side too but, generally, standards are higher and prices considerably lower as you're not supporting upstreet margins and appearance oriented bills of materials.

Pro audio and hifi/high end audio have partly differing objectives. The former is actually a much broader field, consisting of anything from studio monitoring to stage stuff and further... The latter, on the other hand, is mostly just stuff for the living room. Even if we compare studio monitors with home audio, we still find (slightly) differing requirements. A bit like comparing medical photography - where warts and scabs are documented - with portraiture, where warts and scabs are hidden. I know, I'm exaggerating a bit. On purpose.

My philosophy on Hi-Fi has for long been that if it doesn't make music sound enjoyable, it's useless.

And yes, the field of home audio is colourful to say the least. It includes brilliant engineering made even better by brilliant design, some more mediocre but also more affordable stuff, some makeshift boutique stuff, and yes, some blatant snake oil. I only take objection to the last part.

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

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I feel my points were somewhat missed here. But lets get back to the "show stuff" instead of 'pinions... Here's my makeshift garage (not even boutique) speakers in the making. First coat of hard oil wax applied. Now to let them dry enough that I can give them a light sanding between coatings if needed... If all goes well these will make music again in a week or two.

 

[alex66]

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I feel my points were somewhat missed here. But lets get back to the "show stuff" instead of 'pinions... Here's my makeshift garage (not even boutique) speakers in the making. First coat of hard oil wax applied. Now to let them dry enough that I can give them a light sanding between coatings if needed... If all goes well these will make music again in a week or two.

What drivers are going in there? they look quite nice.

 

[marlof]

In all my years of purchasing hi-fi, I’ve always look for what sounds right to my ears, playing my (relatively wide range) of preferred music. Luckily, I have access to a great hifi reseller, which lets me audition my chosen setup in my listening room in my home. But then you move…

My current listening room is weirdly shaped, but that’s real life: I didn’t buy my house to listen to music. My current setup luckily sounds great there (Auralic Aries Mini, Hegel H90, Kef R500). Don’t ask me about interconnects (I know they’re from Audioquest, but who knows which ones).
I’m on the lookout for an affordable dedicated CD player. I don’t like playing vinyl, even though I did grow up with those. I do miss large album art.

For private listening, it’s an Astell & Kern Kann Alpha DAP connected to Sennheiser HD660s or Meze Rai Penta IEMs. That sounds great, but sometimes you need to feel the air being moved…

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

What drivers are going in there? they look quite nice.

I've used 18Sound 8CX401's here. I recall them being one of the few PA drivers in the 8" class that were able to go down low enough without needing substantial EQ and had pretty enough treble response at the same time. It's been years, so I don't remember all the reasoning from that time, but somewhere along those lines. Anyhow, they sound pretty good.

I just got back from the workshop. I gave the boxes a light fine sanding and applied a second coating of wax and started making crude little stands for the speakers. Nothing fancy yet, just four pieces of board glued together at the ends. Maybe apply some black wood stain and oil/wax for a finish after sanding and contour routing the edges. Maybe, I've no idea what I'm doin'...

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

Finally the 8-inchers are back at work, and I have a place for some tunes for the first time in a few years! And the sound? Exactly what I wanted: tilted just the right amount to the pleasing side of things to make my time upstairs about enjoying music, not analysing the work of the recording/mastering engineers. Currently the speakers are powered by 4 watts of single ended 6B4G power. At first I had my EL84 push-pulls at helm, but that amp has too much input sensitivity here; to keep the volume down low enough the volume pot ends up at the bottom of it's travel where it's balance is way off. Might need to replace the pot in that amp for a higher quality one. The speakers have about 91dB/W/m sensitivity, so they don't need much any power for normal listening.

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[Herman]

New at Ikea: OBEGRÄNSAD Platenspeler, zwart - IKEA

 

[Richard]

Like all things Ikea, I suspect that turntable is practical, good value, works OK and would suit a student admirably. The built in pre-amp is a sensible feature at this level. It's probably not the last word in hi-fi though. Personally, I would miss some sort of cover to keep the dust off. No "lydd" sold separately for €14.99?

-R

 

[alex66]

Finally the 8-inchers are back at work, and I have a place for some tunes for the first time in a few years! And the sound? Exactly what I wanted: tilted just the right amount to the pleasing side of things to make my time upstairs about enjoying music, not analysing the work of the recording/mastering engineers. Currently the speakers are powered by 4 watts of single ended 6B4G power. At first I had my EL84 push-pulls at helm, but that amp has too much input sensitivity here; to keep the volume down low enough the volume pot ends up at the bottom of it's travel where it's balance is way off. Might need to replace the pot in that amp for a higher quality one. The speakers have about 91dB/W/m sensitivity, so they don't need much any power for normal listening.

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They look very nice, how high do they go? the one thing that puts me off larger wide range drivers is the loss of higher treble. Thats why when working out my current speakers I went two way, overall they are about 92db, also wanted to avoid a crossover around the voice band, On testing I get roughly 45hz. I have thought of building a tube amp, single ended triode is the only ones that apeal though. Did before build an adaption of one of Pass's single ended fet amps and it was very good a friend made an offer I could not refuse though. IIf you can find them the Alps black pots are exceptionaly good at being close over each channel. Certainly in my opinion 90+db speakers and low powered amps is the way to go.

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

They look very nice, how high do they go? the one thing that puts me off larger wide range drivers is the loss of higher treble. Thats why when working out my current speakers I went two way, overall they are about 92db, also wanted to avoid a crossover around the voice band, On testing I get roughly 45hz. I have thought of building a tube amp, single ended triode is the only ones that apeal though. Did before build an adaption of one of Pass's single ended fet amps and it was very good a friend made an offer I could not refuse though. IIf you can find them the Alps black pots are exceptionaly good at being close over each channel. Certainly in my opinion 90+db speakers and low powered amps is the way to go.

Oh, these are two ways - coaxials - not widebands. The treble extends to around 18kHz, from whence it takes a great big dip. If I remember correctly, it's been a good while since I measured these. No recollection of the bass rolloff frequency either, but they do have a very nice authority for their size.

I don't really care about crossover frequencies, though. I've had speakers crossed over at 5kHz, 2.2kHz and who knows where. And I've made ones myself crossed over at 700Hz, 1.5kHz, 2kHz... It's not about the frequency, but matching the dispersion patterns between the drivers at the XO frequency does help for a coherent sound.

 

[gryphon1911]

Looked for something inexpensive to replace my aging pair of AIWA ARC-1 bluetooth headphone...found a good deal on a pair of AKG 371BT. Should be arriving today...excited to see how they sound. The ARC-1 are nice, but I find them a little too V shaped and the bass can be a little bloomy at lower volumes. From what I've ready the AKG's are better in this regard.

 

[MountainMan79]

I don't really care about crossover frequencies, though. I've had speakers crossed over at 5kHz, 2.2kHz and who knows where. And I've made ones myself crossed over at 700Hz, 1.5kHz, 2kHz... It's not about the frequency, but matching the dispersion patterns between the drivers at the XO frequency does help for a coherent sound.

I would respectfully disagree that ‘it’s not about the frequency’. Although I think there is a lot of personal taste involved when deciding on a frequency there are bigger items to consider. The two things that matter the most(and they’re intertwined) when it comes to trying to keep a coherent single point in space kinda sound between drivers, is the physical distance between the center to center points of each driver, and the xover frequency. The center to center distance between drivers shouldn’t exceed the length of the sound wave at the frequency of the xover. If it does, it’ll sound like it’s coming from two different points in space vs a single point (obviously not an issue when your using coaxials).

So for a 730am/easy math example, imagine we have a xover at 2260Hz. I chose that because it’s exactly twice the speed of sound (1130 ft per second…well technically that varies a bit based on altitude, but I digress). Anyways, the formula for figuring out wavelength is super easy, which is the speed of sound divided by the frequency in question. So 1130/1130 would be 1, or in other words, the length of the sine wave for an 1130Hz is 1 foot. (There’s obviously a metric equivalent to this, but I’m not familiar with it off the top of my head like I am with Americanized version). So in my original example of an xover at 2260Hz, the wavelength would be half a foot, or 6 inches (1130/2260 = 0.5). This means I can’t (or shouldn’t) put my two drivers more than 6” apart (center to center distance). When you start to exceed that distance, it’ll increasingly sound as if the music is coming from two separate and distinct places in space instead of a single source.

So that’s at least one of the “rule of thumbs” that I stick by when building speakers, but there are plenty of others. Anyways, not trying to start an argument! Just enjoy the discussion around audio and all the theory behind it.

 

[MountainMan79]

Back to the “show” part of our show and tell. Just listening to music tonight and playing with the 100mm macro. What a great lens. The ibis and lens stabilization on the Canon and 100mm macro wipes the floor with my Sony a7r3 and 90mm macro. It’s almost m4/3 good.( in other words, 1/13 is possible handheld).

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[The Electric Squirrel]

Back to the “show” part of our show and tell. Just listening to music tonight and playing with the 100mm macro. What a great lens. The ibis and lens stabilization on the Canon and 100mm macro wipes the floor with my Sony a7r3 and 90mm macro. It’s almost m4/3 good.( in other words, 1/13 is possible handheld).
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Now, since when did you go all Canon and stuff? I fail to keep up here, mate...

There's magic in those transformers, though. Lore has it that many have tried to pull of a McIntosh-like circuit with other transformers - tried and failed. I've been told by those in the know that it's very hard to pull of a sufficiently balanced transformer with the right sectioning for unity coupling.

One of my "A-ha"-moments in audio actually involves a McIntosh amp. It was a pair of Tannoy Glenairs driven by a 2275 that made me realize how lacking the whole mainstream industry was with the usual narrow floorstanders utilizing 6,5" woofers at best. Up till then I was still marinated in the popular idea of the 90's that "smaller drivers are faster". That was somewhere around 2009. Turned my life around at one five minute listen.

 

[MountainMan79]

Now, since when did you go all Canon and stuff? I fail to keep up here, mate...

There's magic in those transformers, though. Lore has it that many have tried to pull of a McIntosh-like circuit with other transformers - tried and failed. I've been told by those in the know that it's very hard to pull of a sufficiently balanced transformer with the right sectioning for unity coupling.

One of my "A-ha"-moments in audio actually involves a McIntosh amp. It was a pair of Tannoy Glenairs driven by a 2275 that made me realize how lacking the whole mainstream industry was with the usual narrow floorstanders utilizing 6,5" woofers at best. Up till then I was still marinated in the popular idea of the 90's that "smaller drivers are faster". That was somewhere around 2009. Turned my life around at one five minute listen.

I wouldn’t say I’ve went “all canon”, but that has been the latest venture.

And yes…there is magic in those transformers. It’s the trifilar winding. It’s genius, and it’s been genius since the 60’s when they fist incorporated it, and no one seems to be able to match it. What would otherwise be the inherent weak spot in a tube amp (the output transformer with low damping factor), is turned into a noise canceling powerhouse machine.

And when you have the current handling capabilities of massive output transformers at your disposal, controlling the throw of big ol’ speakers isn’t a big deal. I still love the sound of smaller drivers, but run 15”s on these from time to time.

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

And when you have the current handling capabilities of massive output transformers at your disposal, controlling the throw of big ol’ speakers isn’t a big deal. I still love the sound of smaller drivers, but run 15”s on these from time to time.

Well, the thing no one says here is that larger drivers don't need that control since they're usually doing diddly squat to make noise. Hardly flapping anywhere. Whereas a 6,5" woofer would be flapping around hopelessly trying to sound like a tom-tom, a 15" is just sitting there like nothing while imitating a kettle drum and doing it quite convincingly.

It's really quite flabbergasting how loud you can listen to music with larger speakers without noticing it. I've had 400W of class D power at hand with a pair of 18Sound 15" coaxes, blasted JBL 4345's with ASR's most powerful class AB sandbox, and it's fun for a while. And very easy to go much louder than you realize, since the sound doesn't become strained. Unhealthily loud...

Still, I usually prefer the more laid back presentation of SE tube amps with high efficiency speakers. There's a sense of flow and just a touch of sugar coating to make it easier to forgive some mastering engineers their work... IMHO the strict and stubborn adherence to "stuff in = stuff out" ideals in home audio is counterproductive. Since "stuff in" will never equal "stuff out" (what you hear is 80% room and 20% direct sound, as a rule of thumb), it's best to choose your poison in a way that makes life bearable.

 

[gryphon1911]

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Not as bright and sparkly as my Beyerdynamic DT880 Chrome's, but much less bloomy than the AIWA ARC-1 they are replacing.

 

[The Electric Squirrel]

Things off the to-do -list: shorter speaker cables for the living room. The pair I had there were about twice as long as they needed to be. For some reason I couldn't find decent sets of heat shrink tubing at any vendor near me, so the colour coding is a bit "non standard", to be polite.

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[The Electric Squirrel]

One could be forgiven to think that it would be insane to use tube amps now that electricity prices are sky high here in Finland after the war triggered a series of events that lead to the downfall of at least a decade of stupid energy policies. But since our house has electric heating it really makes no difference, other than besides converting electricity to heat tube amps can also make some music in the process. So they warm the mind also while warming the body.

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