Leica Be Careful Out There

[Brian]

I'm biased. The M Monochrom is unique.

 

[Mijo]

I've wanted an MM for awhile but when I purchased my M-E there weren't any used MM on the market yet and I couldn't afford to buy a new one (and a lens). I mainly shoot b&w film, as I have access to a dark room where I develop and print. My access to that dark room may come to an end in a few months and if so I doubt that I'll continue shooting film, in which case the MM would be my film replacement. If that happens I could sell off my MP and pick up a used M9, for those times when I do want to shoot color. The thought of not being able to shoot film is sad but if I can't develop and print on my own (which is the most enjoyable aspect of shooting film for me), I don't really see any point in it.

You guys pretty much convinced me to pick up a MM.

 

[dalethorn]

This weekend one of my fears was realized when I was physically assaulted and robbed of my M-E with the SEM 18mm mounted. It was on Saturday around 3:00 p.m. on Lilac St. and 24th, in San Francisco, I was shooting some graffiti in an alley when I was jumped by three guys. This is a shady part of SF, but the best graffiti is always in bad neighborhoods, that I had been to numerous times before so I let me guard down. I was too focused on what I was shooting and didn't see them coming up behind me. One sucker punch and I was down on the ground getting kicked in the head by all three them. I held out as long as I could but they got my digital kit off of me but I did manage to keep my backpack (which had my film kit and two additional lenses). Some of the homes that line that alley have video cameras, and SFPD is in the process of trying to obtain some of the videos to see if the assualt was captured. My face is badly bruised and swollen but nothing that time won't heal. I post this not to vent but as a cautionary tale. I knew very well that this was a bad part of the city and I'm actually not suprised that this happened, a few years ago the same thing happened to another photog in a safer neighborhood (Marina) in the middle of the day too. There's been a number of assaults and robberies (and even a shooting a few days earlier) in this area so I really shouldn't have gone there. All and all, I consider myself very lucky as it could have been a lot worse since I was fighting with them to keep my back pack and M-E. If I would have sustained some permenant bodily injury, I'd be very angry at my self right now. Cameras and lens (even expensive ones) can always be replaced, dead photogs can't capture images. Please be careful out there.

It's a shame to live in a city (or even visit) when you're more likely to be assaulted, but less likely to be able to protect yourself, because you're not allowed to.

 

[Mijo]

I received a MM last weekend to replace the M-E that was stolen. Thus far, I'm really liking the MM, but I haven't really had a chance to take it out though I did spend the afternoon in Chinatown with it. IMO, the noise at high ISOs really does look like film grain however the noise at ISO 10000 looks better than the grain from ilford 3200 (pulled to 1600). The MM is an amazing digital complement to shooting with film and I plan to use the MM in low light situations where 3200 film just isn't enough.

Since I may lose access to the community darkroom near my current residence, I don't expect to actually get much use out of the MM as I'm planning to use my MP as much as possible while I can still process and print in a darkroom. To that end I've purchased 20 rolls of Tri-X and boxes of fiber paper (in various sizes). If or when I do lose access to the darkroom, the MM will be my anologue replacement.

Also renewed my renters insurance and increased my coverage so that all of my photography gear is now covered.

 

[rflove]

Mijo, glad to hear you've got replacement gear. I just read your thread and I'm sorry to hear about this awful incident. I too worry a good bit about my safety when I go out shooting, especially in the "edgier" areas of the city. Like you, I'm aware of the danger and I think I'm careful and alert. But in reality, I get completely absorbed in my work and would probably be an easy mark. Probably the safest thing would be to go out with others as there can be safety in numbers and hopefully someone will be paying attention to the surroundings....

 

[rflove]

It's a shame to live in a city (or even visit) when you're more likely to be assaulted, but less likely to be able to protect yourself, because you're not allowed to.

It's not so much that you aren't "allowed" to defend yourself as that you get ambushed and surprised. Here is Atlanta there are definitely too many bad people and I do worry a bit about being victimized. I could get a CC permit but I would probably be robbed of a firearm as well sometimes I think about carrying a small can of mace but somehow I never do :rolleyes-79:

 

[Mijo]

I actually had a knife with me and considered pulling it out and using it against my attackers. However, it also occurred to me that my attackers could easily disarm me and use the knife against me. When I told a co-worker, who grew up in that hood, about what happened he indicated that it was a good thing that I didn't pull out my knife. He stated that my attackers were probably armed and if I pulled out a weapon the situation would have only been worse for me. My co-worker also stated that more than likely there was a spotter working with the three guys that mugged me.

These types of assaults are on the rise in SF, a couple months ago a tourist was shot (at Lombard St.) when he went after two muggers that robbed him of his camera. Call me a coward if you want but I'm not going to get shot or hurt over equipment that is insured.

 

[dalethorn]

I actually had a knife with me and considered pulling it out and using it against my attackers. However, it also occurred to me that my attackers could easily disarm me and use the knife against me. When I told a co-worker, who grew up in that hood, about what happened he indicated that it was a good thing that I didn't pull out my knife. He stated that my attackers were probably armed and if I pulled out a weapon the situation would have only been worse for me. My co-worker also stated that more than likely there was a spotter working with the three guys that mugged me.

These types of assaults are on the rise in SF, a couple months ago a tourist was shot (at Lombard St.) when he went after two muggers that robbed him of his camera. Call me a coward if you want but I'm not going to get shot or hurt over equipment that is insured.

According to my police and citizens-police training, use the gun only to defend against imminent death or serious bodily injury. Situational awareness is needed to prepare for that, to have a hand on or near enough to the gun to draw and shoot in time. My sense is to spot possible muggers and be ready, and if they point a gun at me, shoot. If they pull a knife, pull the gun and warn them off. If they look suspicious at all, I'll step away from them, and if they move toward me I may pull the gun and just hold it in hand pointed downward, waiting for an escalation. The point is that your life is your responsibility, not anyone else's - not even the police. Don't escalate a threat beyond what's absolutely necessary. And never pull a knife on 3 guys - bad enough for one guy, useless for 3.

 

[rflove]

According to my police and citizens-police training, use the gun only to defend against imminent death or serious bodily injury. Situational awareness is needed to prepare for that, to have a hand on or near enough to the gun to draw and shoot in time. My sense is to spot possible muggers and be ready, and if they point a gun at me, shoot. If they pull a knife, pull the gun and warn them off. If they look suspicious at all, I'll step away from them, and if they move toward me I may pull the gun and just hold it in hand pointed downward, waiting for an escalation. The point is that your life is your responsibility, not anyone else's - not even the police. Don't escalate a threat beyond what's absolutely necessary. And never pull a knife on 3 guys - bad enough for one guy, useless for 3.

I know that in Georgia the authorities are not interested in charging crime victims when they act in self defense. However, most people are not prepared to shoot another person even in self defense. I know that I'm not at all interested in shooting and killing or even injuring another human being so carrying a firearm is not a decision made lightly. Having said that, I have been a target of violence and I don't like that either. Probably the safest thing is to be aware of surroundings, people, etc. Travel in groups and generally stay away from dangerous situations. I totally agree with not using a knife for self defense against even one person unless you are a pretty good knife fighter already....

 

[dalethorn]

I know that in Georgia the authorities are not interested in charging crime victims when they act in self defense. However, most people are not prepared to shoot another person even in self defense. I know that I'm not at all interested in shooting and killing or even injuring another human being so carrying a firearm is not a decision made lightly. Having said that, I have been a target of violence and I don't like that either. Probably the safest thing is to be aware of surroundings, people, etc. Travel in groups and generally stay away from dangerous situations. I totally agree with not using a knife for self defense against even one person unless you are a pretty good knife fighter already....

I think very few people know this, but apparently even trained police officers can have a momentary fear and hesitation reaction when surprised with sudden or overwhelming force, and that moment can get them killed. Given another second or two, the officer's trained reactions would kick in and they would do what's necessary to the situation. But for civilians, it's not predictable. I don't worry about the small group of miscreants or thugs in town or on the highway, since I see them coming, but what I'd be concerned about is the van that rolls up quickly and 3-4 guys jump out and rush me. People here and there get caught in such kidnap situations - kids mostly, but for a few adults it can be a fate worse than death. Just ask the guy who accidentally ran over and killed John Gotti's young son in New York, backing out of his driveway. Well, you can't ask him....

 

[rflove]

but what I'd be concerned about is the van that rolls up quickly and 3-4 guys jump out and rush me.

That's actually a common M.O. for muggings and armed robberies... If you ever see a car with more than one person (or even just the driver) suddenly stop near you, if you see car doors begin to open, take immediate action to protect yourself. Run to the nearest house and yell "fire", get off the street and run through yards yelling "fire". Might be wise to throw some items down like a wallet of whatever (I often carry a "muggers wallet" with old expired credit cards a a few dollar bills). Again, nothing beats being aware of one's surroundings and having a scape route always in mind.

 

[Raid]

This is rather scary stuff. Trump may say: "deport all muggers to Mexico!"

 

[dalethorn]

This is rather scary stuff. Trump may say: "deport all muggers to Mexico!"

Deportation is an interesting thing. In the early 1960's, Bobby Kennedy as U.S. Atty General deported Carlos Marcello, the alleged boss of the New Orleans crime syndicate. Marcello and an aide were dropped off, not at a government etc. facility, but in a jungle, where they had to hike to the nearest town. So if the govt. in the U.S. is talking about deportation, you have to wonder....

 

[xdayv]

Just read your post, it was unfortunate to see you lose your equipment and go through the ordeal... but still be thankful you didn't get hurt badly or worse than that... the prob with situations like these; well for me, when I shoot... most of the times I'm carried away by the moment, and usually do care less about the surroundings, thus my 'situational awareness' for possible threats are greatly diminished.

 

[rflove]

On an interesting note, watching the "angry photographer" YouTube posts, I learned a valuable thing. One can at least insure one's cameras and such for all types of loss through an Inland Marine policy. Call your agent and ask for it. I prepared a list of my Leica stuff with descriptions and approximate "used" replacement cost and got a quote back for a little over $150/year. Not a bad price to protect a body and 4-5 expensive lenses....

Of course, this does not protect your person so please be careful out there. The other day I really wanted to capture some images during the foggy, rainy late afternoon around the cemetery and some industrial areas. But I decided on the side of discretion which as they say is "the better part of valor". Anyway, I'll get another chance when I'm better prepared and less concerned.

Cheers.

 

[Mijo]

My gear is currently covered under my renter's insurance. After I went through the claims process I increased my coverage to ensure I could get paid out if it happens again or if someone breaks into my apt and cleans me out. At this point the only loss I would feel is emotional if my MP were ever stole. There's something about a film camera that adds sentimental value (for me at least), I don't have that kind of emotional attachment to my lenses and digital bodies.

 

[rflove]

My gear is currently covered under my renter's insurance. After I went through the claims process I increased my coverage to ensure I could get paid out if it happens again or if someone breaks into my apt and cleans me out. At this point the only loss I would feel is emotional if my MP were ever stole. There's something about a film camera that adds sentimental value (for me at least), I don't have that kind of emotional attachment to my lenses and digital bodies.

Glad to hear you are covered. Please let us know how it all turns out. I would like to know how home owners/renters insurance works in these cases.

 

[Mijo]

Glad to hear you are covered. Please let us know how it all turns out. I would like to know how home owners/renters insurance works in these cases.

For this claim I just provided the insurance company with the case # and they requested the police report themselves (it can take up to week for the police report to actually be available vs the case number which is assigned immediately). Once the insurance company obtained the police report they requested receipts for the items listed and I was paid out. In a previous post I listed how I was paid out (i.e. less than retail for items purchased over a year based on a calculated depreciation rate).

All in all the claims process was painless and quick.

 

[Mijo]

For those members that may be visiting SF soon, there's been a rash of camera stick ups

Tourists Robbed At Gunpoint During Evening Photography Session At Twin Peaks

Rolling Thieves Menace San Francisco Photographers

This isn't uncommon but it's been awhile since there were so many back to back incidents. I don't doubt that these guys with guns will shoot you for your gear. Lombard St (infamous crooked street) has also been a trouble spot in the last couple of years. The time of the day doesn't seem to be a factor either any more. For those that are familiar with Glass Key (film supply and camera shop in the Lower Haight), they were broken into last week. Watch your back and stay safe...

 

[dalethorn]

For those members that may be visiting SF soon, there's been a rash of camera stick ups

Tourists Robbed At Gunpoint During Evening Photography Session At Twin Peaks

Rolling Thieves Menace San Francisco Photographers

This isn't uncommon but it's been awhile since there were so many back to back incidents. I don't doubt that these guys with guns will shoot you for your gear. Lombard St (infamous crooked street) has also been a trouble spot in the last couple of years. The time of the day doesn't seem to be a factor either any more. For those that are familiar with Glass Key (film supply and camera shop in the Lower Haight), they were broken into last week. Watch your back and stay safe...

Security people I know say "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".