Cameras not gadgets.

Excellent post
Lili - you are assaulting my wallet!
My equivalent to your 4 year old Oly E510, and the D5100 is the Pentax K5 - lovely camera.
having just read the dpreview review of the XZ, it seems to be the epitomy of camera over tech - simple and able, small menus, no frills, fine lens.
I know it's hugely popular right now, but I found that the X100 finally seemed too much like technology over camera.
all the best

Join usss, Jono, you know you want to.
Pentax builds my second favorite DSLR's; K7, Kr, and K5.
Have not used the X100 so cannot comment yet :)
 
David, I'm so sorry to read about this problem you're having with your sunglasses, though very glad to know that they've helped you with what must be terrible migraines. I've never experienced a migraine headache, thank goodness.

It's very interesting to read what both you and Paul have said about having problems with polarized sunglasses... I wear polarized progressive lens prescription sunglasses and have since 1997 and the only problem I have with my X100 is if I hold the camera in portrait mode...you know perpendicular is what I mean..then I can't see the focus box via the OVF but can just make out parts of the outer frame lines. With the EVF in that same portrait/perpendicular stance, it is hard but not impossible... For me if I'm holding the camera in the horizontal/landscape position, I have no issues at all seeing. I also find the LCD works very well with my polarized sunglasses in both positions. All this said, we each have our own trials and tribulations with our eyesights and what works best and must do what we must do.
 
A couple of thoughts.

As a computer/software engineer, it is easier to implement software than hardware, but not always as cost effective. Nowadays, software is what seperates most products between brands. Software can provide many features to a phone, camera, mp3 player..etc, however, it takes vision to make sure that the software is intuitive and easy to use. In my opinion, ease of use when dealing with software starts to lose its grip on usefulness when software tries to replicate specific functions where a hardware control used to be. For example, many cars now come with touch screens to change audio volume or radio station. These are really hard to use IMHO. It is much easier to use a physical button to turn a dial or press a button than to use a menu or touch screen to change something on the radio while driving.

In regards to the NEX system cameras, I just don't care for the operation. Horses, of courses. This goes the same for the GF2 as well.

Now getting to an EVF/OVF feature of a camera. In my opinion, and this may offend some, that the difference between using an OVF and the LCD is like the difference in using a handgun and a sniper rifle. When I use an OVF, I feel like I am a sniper. I am disconnected from the environment when taking a picture. The LCD screen however allows me to view the entire environment to better take a picture.
 
I've never experienced a migraine headache, thank goodness.
Fortunately theres no headache, just distorted vision.

the only problem I have with my X100 is if I hold the camera in portrait mode...you know perpendicular is what I mean..then I can't see the focus box via the OVF but can just make out parts of the outer frame lines
Yes thats what I get, but my sunglasses are extra dark, which means I can't see the outlines at all. I was out with it the other evening and was cursing it, saying whats it doing now. I was looking at the screen in the vertical position and it was completely black.

Its a real shame because I love that camera, but my intention is(was) to use it mainly outdoors.
Ho Hum.
 
David, I'm so sorry to read about this problem you're having with your sunglasses, though very glad to know that they've helped you with what must be terrible migraines. I've never experienced a migraine headache, thank goodness.

It's very interesting to read what both you and Paul have said about having problems with polarized sunglasses... I wear polarized progressive lens prescription sunglasses and have since 1997 and the only problem I have with my X100 is if I hold the camera in portrait mode...you know perpendicular is what I mean..then I can't see the focus box via the OVF but can just make out parts of the outer frame lines. With the EVF in that same portrait/perpendicular stance, it is hard but not impossible... For me if I'm holding the camera in the horizontal/landscape position, I have no issues at all seeing. I also find the LCD works very well with my polarized sunglasses in both positions. All this said, we each have our own trials and tribulations with our eyesights and what works best and must do what we must do.

Slightly off topic,

I know that one of the Canon G series of cameras (I think it was the G8 or G9) had horrible issues when people wore polarized sun glasses. I wear them as well and I have no problems seeing my screen on the E-P1 or other cameras I have. I think some of the newer TFT and AMOLED screens have fixed some of these issues. I also think it varies from camera to camera and glasses to glasses. I recommend anyone to check the camera in store first before they buy to see if it will be a problem.
 
Slightly off topic,

I know that one of the Canon G series of cameras (I think it was the G8 or G9) had horrible issues when people wore polarized sun glasses. I wear them as well and I have no problems seeing my screen on the E-P1 or other cameras I have. I think some of the newer TFT and AMOLED screens have fixed some of these issues. I also think it varies from camera to camera and glasses to glasses. I recommend anyone to check the camera in store first before they buy to see if it will be a problem.

Certainly my E-PL2 is a real problem, the EVF is unusable in horizontal but fine in vertical and the screen is fine in horizontal but completely black when it turn it into the vertical position. Likewise my GH2.
 
Software can provide many features to a phone, camera, mp3 player..etc, however, it takes vision to make sure that the software is intuitive and easy to use. In my opinion, ease of use when dealing with software starts to lose its grip on usefulness when software tries to replicate specific functions where a hardware control used to be. For example, many cars now come with touch screens to change audio volume or radio station. These are really hard to use IMHO. It is much easier to use a physical button to turn a dial or press a button than to use a menu or touch screen to change something on the radio while driving.

Yes good points. I like the sentence I've put it bold particularly.
 
missing the point of the NEX line

First off I agree that the end result is the image. It does not matter how many features and fancy lenses you have if you can not take good pictures. All the coolness in the world won't compensate when your pictures look like crap. However is there anything wrong with using technology to create better pictures?

As far as new technology and gadgets go, the same arguments were made when the digital camera first came about. Purists hated the idea of digital versus film and swore it would never catch on. You need to remember that the NEX is a first generation concept. I think Sony did a fairly good job at creating this new design, and if Sony listens to the consumer, it will only get better.

A few thoughts generally.
1-Having a viewfinder is a personal choice. The previous camera I had had a viewfinder and LCD screen and I never used the viewfinder. A great benefit for me is the fact that the LCD on the NEX shows me exactly how the picture is going to turn out. I appreciate this as I can tweak the shoot, before ever taking it. Again this is a very personal choice. Sony choice not to include a viewfinder to keep the camera small. In case you did not know, you can order the accessory viewfinder which plugs into the accessory port.

2-Having buttons and switches all over. I understand the benefit of having instant access to your settings. However, once you get to know the menu's, getting in and out is pretty quick. Plus with the addition of being able to set your own three hot buttons, you do have instant access to at least three settings. Pick your favorite, ISO, Metering, Flash output etc. Is the menu system perfect, no. there are a few things I would change that would allow for easier access.

In eliminating most of the external buttons Sony has drastically reduced the size of the camera, without sacrificing sensor size.

3-Size/weight is a big thing to me. I have always wanted to delve into better photography, but the big fancy cameras always put me off. I am not a professional and do not plan on being one. The pics I take are either to share with family, and/or to share here. When we go places I am the gear carrier. This means when I go places, my camera is important, but not enough to want to haul around an additional ten pounds. The NEX fits perfectly into my world. Small enough to not get into the way while out on a outing, yet gives me the flexibility to shot more interesting pics.
Again I recognize that some people are much more serious as to the gear they carry and are willing to sling around large cameras, even more than one, and extra gear.

4-Accessories port. Sony choose to go their own route with the Flash/Mic/Viewfinder port. The first issue obviously issue is that no hot shoe device will work with the NEX and Sony is very slow in making more accessories available. There is a new flash coming out with the NEX-C3 release that is much bigger and omni-directional. A few members have rigged up some ways around the no hot shoe issue, but they are homemade devices.

Again this to me is not a big deal to me as I am not doing studio work or much that requires extra flashes, etc. In the spirit of keeping things light and sleek, the standard flash fits flush against the camera and does not get in the way at all. Perfect for the times when you need a little extra light.

5- Lens selection. At this point the E-Mount for the NEX only has three options, a fixed and two zooms. With the new NEX-3C there will be an additional fixed lens, with several more planned.
A lot of the hard core photographers are saying how poor the images are from the standard lenses, but from my point of view they are just fine. Most of us don't blow up every pixel and examine every corner. No disrespect to those of you who do, but most people who you share your pics with don't care about that kind of stuff. Again this depends greatly upon what the target audience is, I am not making money on my pics, nor blow up my pics beyond 8x10.
The great thing is that there are a whole variety of lenses that with a simple adapter hook right up. I have two additional lenses that I use almost more than the standard one.


Sum up.
I will repeat my original statement, the final image is everything. All of the above means nothing if the pictures are worthless. The images I see coming from the NEX are really good. Perhaps not perfect, but really good.

Is the NEX for everyone? No. Plenty of more advanced users will find the NEX difficult to use and the lack of significant accessories will continue to be a problem for those more demanding users.

That is the beauty of having so many different cameras to choose from. For me personally the NEX is a perfect camera right now, it has everything I need.
 
However is there anything wrong with using technology to create better pictures?
Agreed. Digital photography is all about technology after all. My point was, is it helpful technology and does that technology do a better job than what it replaces? You may think it does, but I think in many cases for me, it doesn't.

A great benefit for me is the fact that the LCD on the NEX shows me exactly how the picture is going to turn out
Depending of course on whether you're photographing in bright sunlight or not.

In case you did not know, you can order the accessory viewfinder which plugs into the accessory port.
Only if you use the 16mm lens and want an optical viewfinder.


A lot of the hard core photographers are saying how poor the images are from the standard lenses, but from my point of view they are just fine. Most of us don't blow up every pixel and examine every corner.
I think the image quality of the NEX I had was just fine. I had absolutely no problem with it. It was exellent.
 
Clutter

Yes good points. I like the sentence I've put it bold particularly.

That's funny, I actually dislike cars with buttons everywhere. I can't imagine all of the buttons that would be necessary to operate my GPS and MP3 collection.

A bit off topic, but to show a point, this is what a simple private owned cockpit looks like. Not to bad, and not to difficult to learn what everything does. Altimeter, horizon, compass, fuel, radio, etc:
172m-int.jpg


Now, take a look at the original F-15 cockpit. Wow, what a difference. So many buttons, switches and levers. Of course this is a much more complex aircraft with weapon systems and radar and all kind of stuff a recreational pilot does not have:
F-15_Eagle_Cockpit.jpg


The F-16 was the first fighter to try to alleviate all of the cutter than had developed:
f-16-60-cockpit-large.jpg


Finally, one of the most recent planes, the euro fighter's cockpit. A much more complex fighter than the F-15 and F-16, yet much more simple to look at:
Eurofighter+Typhoon+cockpit+by+jet+planes+%25282%2529.jpg
Join to see EXIF info for this image (if available)


I know a bit unrelated, but I am trying showing that the more complex you get the more you need to simplify. As manufacturers are attempting to shove more and more into these cameras and give us more and more features, there reaches an overload point where you simply can't keep adding buttons.

Is one right and one wrong? I don't think so. Back before digital processing, you really only had a few choices when you were taking a picture. Your film determined your ISO speed. You either bought color film or black and white. You did not have all of the creative styles we have now. Your only real choices were what aperture, what speed, and what kind of flash to use.

Now however, consumers are demanding more and more in a camera and the makers are providing more and more. There is simply no way to cram all of those buttons into one case. Did the NEX go to far? That is a personal choice, and one only you can answer.
 
Agreed. Digital photography is all about technology after all. My point was, is it helpful technology and does that technology do a better job than what it replaces? You may think it does, but I think in many cases for me, it doesn't.


Depending of course on whether you're photographing in bright sunlight or not.


Only if you use the 16mm lens and want an optical viewfinder.



I think the image quality of the NEX I had was just fine. I had absolutely no problem with it. It was exellent.

I agree that many use technology to replace understanding the basics.

By changing the screen to its max setting of Sunny and adding a pop-up shade I have no problems at all.

The optional viewfinder is very limited, no way around that. I simply do not want or need one.
 
I know a bit unrelated, but I am trying showing that the more complex you get the more you need to simplify.

Well yes, but I'd argue the NEX isn't that complex in what it does, and isn't simple when you want to change anything.

A couple of fun reviews.

<iframe src="
" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="560"></iframe>

<iframe src="
" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="349" width="560"></iframe>
 
I will argue again that using the current NEX cameras has not been complicated since the first firmware upgrade. You can change all the basic functions quite easily once you set up the custom buttons. I can very quickly change shoot mode, increase or decrease aperture/shutter speed, and change white balance, metering, and exposure comp. I cannot for the life of me see what is hard about that.
 
What if every camera had a Core menu, the first item in the menu list. This menu would allow immediate access to the basics: ISO, aperture and/or speed, and perhaps exposure compensation.

When I am out taking pictures, once I have things set up the way I want, which I do first thing, 99% of what I change on the fly is ISO, aperture and exposure compensation. These should directly available to me without having to go to a menu so I can change them without taking the cameras away from my eye.
 
What if every camera had a Core menu, the first item in the menu list. This menu would allow immediate access to the basics: ISO, aperture and/or speed, and perhaps exposure compensation.

When I am out taking pictures, once I have things set up the way I want, which I do first thing, 99% of what I change on the fly is ISO, aperture and exposure compensation. These should directly available to me without having to go to a menu so I can change them without taking the cameras away from my eye.

Exactly.
 
When I am out taking pictures, once I have things set up the way I want, which I do first thing, 99% of what I change on the fly is ISO, aperture and exposure compensation. These should directly available to me without having to go to a menu so I can change them without taking the cameras away from my eye.
Since we seem to have gotten into a discussion of the Nex, I'll reiterate that the Nex does this, or does it as well as my Panasonics do it or my Olympus used to. In aperture priority mode, you turn the wheel to change the aperture. If you want to change the ISO, you press one button and then turn the wheel. If you want to change exposure compensation, you push one button and then turn the wheel. This is exactly the same as the GH2 - they're just slightly different buttons. You don't have to go to a menu - you just have to press a button and turn the wheel. The X100 is arguably better in terms of aperture, shutter speed, and exposure comp (you turn a wheel or dial but don't have to push a button first), and as good for ISO as long as you don't want to use auto ISO on occasion, in which case its much much much worse. None of these things are difficult to do on the Nex or on any other camera I've ued (except the EPL1 which still didn't require menu diving, but was all button driven).

-Ray
 
Certainly my E-PL2 is a real problem, the EVF is unusable in horizontal but fine in vertical and the screen is fine in horizontal but completely black when it turn it into the vertical position. Likewise my GH2.

Sorry to hear of your vision/migaine issue, I can well understand your need to use a true DSLR
Glady we have a lot of very good ones to choose from
 
Ray,

One of the things I like about the Olympus is the super menu. I can change WB, IBIS, or even AF point really quickly. While not as often as say Aperature or EV or ISO, I do need to change these things occasionally, and I felt with the NEX I had to dig to find these settings. The NEX I played with was probably before any firmware. Is this still the case for the NEX?
 
Ray,

One of the things I like about the Olympus is the super menu. I can change WB, IBIS, or even AF point really quickly. While not as often as say Aperature or EV or ISO, I do need to change these things occasionally, and I felt with the NEX I had to dig to find these settings. The NEX I played with was probably before any firmware. Is this still the case for the NEX?
No, if they're important to you, you can place them on the main button in the middle of the four-way controller. You can put three items on there and the first is once button click away, the second is two clicks, and the third is three clicks. I'm generally in aperture priority and so aperture is active on the ring without doing anything but turning it, EV comp is one button away (bottom of the 4 way), drive mode is one click (left side of the 4 way) and flash settings are one click (right side of the 4 way). Then I have three items on the big button in the middle - ISO (1 click), AF area (2 clicks), and WB (3 clicks). I have the mode dial linked to the bottom button on the back, so its one click away, but if I didn't need to access that very often I could put something else there and it would be one click away and then the mode dial would be two clicks away. I can get to everything important without having to go into the menu. And since I don't change AF area or WB very often, everything I tend to use is within one click of a button.

The ONLY function the Nex doesn't have but should is an AFL/AEL function to be able to separate exposure from AF and put one on a button and the other on the shutter button. This isn't a matter of not being able to assign it to a button - the camera just plain doesn't HAVE it! I've worked around it without any real problems, but its definitely on my wish list for the Nex 7, whenever it shows up. Aside from that I want for nothing on that camera. Oh, sure, I'd LOVE a silent shutter and GH2 AF speed, but in terms of functions and accessibility, its all there and works very well for me.

Oh, and I just looked and IBIS (they call it "steady shot") is not something you can assign to one of the buttons so you'd have to menu dive a bit for that. That's lens dependent, though, and I tend to just leave it on in the rare case I'm using the kit zoom and there is no such thing with the 16mm and that's what I shoot with the vast majority of the time with the Nex. So, I guess its more OIS than IBIS but is still controlled by the camera's menu system rather than a switch on the lens.

-Ray
 
For All the quirks olympus has, I really do like the super control panel. I hit menu and then I can go to any of the main settings and change them. The only thing that Olympus does bury is turning on or off is exposure bracketing. I also wish they wouldn't bury LCD brightness either. I guess we can't have everything.

Thanks Ray. Gives me a better idea of whether I would like the NEX and my guess is I would probably be fighting it more than not.
 
Back
Top