Compact Can any compact format fullfill this need really well ??

even with the 25, you will still get shallower DOF with the APS-C and the 50mm (80mm-e).
I suspect even with the f0.95 the DSLR would still win

This is sort of what I am feeling.. And then I am on that steep slippery slope of 5d thoughts again..

Another forum has users telling me the LX7 and other compacts but I really dont think they appreciate the DOF / Bokeh / and light combo.

Sorely tempted to just order up a GH2 and Voitlander nokton 25mm f0.95 tho.. If it doesnt work out sell it for a couple hundred buck loss. If I could get those shots with a smaller setup it would rock.
 

nianys

Veteran
"Basically, can any 4/3rd system and lenses get that ?? If so at what cost in money, complexity, etc. "
GX1 with the 20mm F1.7 would be closest based on this.
as to smaller sensors, there are ton of good ones but none are going to give the same shallow DOF as the DSLR.
if you were not worried about budget and can accept a fixed, fast prime lens then the full-frame Sony RX1 would do suberbly!

I totally agree. Get a GX-1 with a fast prime, preferably the PL25 (best m4/3 lens, period), and enjoy !! I've taken nearly noiseless 3200 ISO pictures in NEAR DARKNESS with this combo (WAyyyy less light than in your typical bar), and I don't even bother with RAW. Definitely GX-1, GF5, EM-5 (the first one being by far the best bang for the buck option).

ec1e8211856070671740ce6d2989c3b7_155.jpg


ISO 3200, NO noise reduction whatsoever, jpeg file, the room was almost pitch dark.

2d0b74b549a3a037a2826e842e92f857_3de.jpg


3200, some artificial light, zero noise reduction.

If you want to go the NEX route, you'll get even better low light, high ISO performance, but limited lens options, unless you want to use manual lenses (be careful, I just fell into this and it's about as addictive as cocaine, beware, lol).

If you want to stay with a real compact form factor, RX100 for 600$, or if you're stinking rich the new Sony FF compact. The FUJI offerings are pretty superb in low light too, but bigger form factor.
 
I have asked this on dpreview in both M43 and EOS sections..

I have to say I am really impressed with the OM-D EM-5 shots I have just seen.. The in body stabalization and high ISO performance is nice and flickr is showing some shots just how I like them. Also while less relevant I like the look and build quality it appear to have. I am guessing this does have a manual focus peep mode.

Sony Nex has less lens choices for me than 4/3.. Still interesting all over.
 

Iansky

All-Pro
Location
Cotswolds, UK
GX1+25mm Low light

These are some images I took at an indoor flea market, it was not well lit so I used the 25mm and the image quality and bokeh is superb and could well work for what you need - these were around 1600 - 2000 ISO (The windows were high and it was fairly dull outside - the main room lighting was from 2 large chandeliers so flat, low light.







 
Well I had a bunch of developments and an interesting day..

First off posts on dpreview turned me onto the high ISO ability and all round appeal of the ODM.. I had to be in town at the mall and got to hold one, but it wasnt a powered up demo so no shooting it it.. All I can say is thats an appealing build quality and size, I felt that had superb appeal.. All kinds of thoughts going around, but simply put, can I be happy with the m43 sensor size DOF and bokeh ??

I also got a surprisingly decent price on the EF 50mm f1.4 USM lens for the canon.. If I choose to buy that lens, and I am fairly sure I will, I will get to test that lens on my APS-C body, that lens on my buddys 5d, his f1.2 big buck lens on my body and his full frame body. Basically for the price of that lenses resale loss, should I decide thats not going to work for me, I get to shoot every possible EOS lens combo.

What wasnt well priced here was the MFT 25mm f1.4 lens.. They want a kind of high 860 bucks for that lens in local money. Chatting with my brother he has a GH2 body he can lend me.. And I think my longer term plan is to get that lens, try it on the GH2 (or pick up a near disposable GF2 on ebay) and see how it shoots. I know the cheap bodies wont have the ISO performance of the ODM, they wont have the slicker AF, or the in body 5 way IS.. All of which would greatly help my situation.. But in doing this I will get an eye for what that lens captures on that sensor.. What the DOF performs like, and in general roughly how the lens itself performs. If I like the shots I can keep the lens for the ODM, if its a non starter I can just rebay everything and only lose what a rental would cost. As that lens seems badly priced here I will see what I find on ebay as then if I resale I source in a cheap market and resell in a expensive one, help cover my losses in testing and postage.

So thats the general outline of my plan.. Get them all !! Voila simple !!

Get the canon lens.. Try all the canon combos.. Get the MFT lens.. Try that combo.. Maybe get the ODM as a treat to myself as it depreciates a bit !! That way I spend on lenses which hold value now and body perhaps later which will come down. Win win.
 

nianys

Veteran
You seem to be mentioning DOF an awful lot. If that's really important to you (it is to me), skip the m4/3, you'll bump in the DOF limitation continuously, you'll be better served with an APS-C sensor. m4/3 people will tell you the difference is irrelevant with the proper lenses. I beg to disagree. I'm a thin DOF lover and going back to APS-C after 7 months of intensive m4/3 use has been a REAL treat. I think either NEX or Fuji might offer what you're after.
 

Amin

Hall of Famer
To the OP: I would consider getting the Sigma 30/1.4 for your Canon APS-C DSLR. It has a lovely, smooth character to the bokeh with good central sharpness even wide open. DOF with that lens seems more shallow than one would expect from a 30/1.4 on APS-C. It's one failing is that the autofocus can be hit or miss, but a good copy of the lens will serve you well in getting the look you seek.

m4/3 people will tell you the difference is irrelevant with the proper lenses.

This statement describes a specific group of people, mostly on DPReview. It's inaccurate and insulting to refer to "m4/3 people" as if we were a homogeneous group of blinded fanboys and fangirls. Many of us agree that people who find shallow DOF a high priority would do well to look elsewhere. On the other hand, it's an objective truth that the DOF difference between MFT and APS-C is less than the difference between APS-C and 35mm format, and it's also true that the differences will depend on the lenses you choose. For example, someone shooting the Sony 35/1.8 on NEX will not find any DOF difference between that combo and Pana 25/1.4 on MFT, whereas someone shooting kit zoom vs kit zoom or primarily using legacy lenses will find more shallow DOF with the NEX system.
 
Pentax K-01 @ ISO12800

7149308469_e0c7113bea_z.jpg


IIRC, I used focus peaking with manual focus so as not to disturb anyone with the AF assist light. This was with the DA21mm f/3.2, which is a bit slow, but the high ISO capabilities of the K-01 helped to compensate. A 31mm f/1.8, 35mm f/2.4, 40mm f/2.8 and 50mm f/1.8 are all also available, among others.

If you really want good OOF, pay attention to the distance between you, your subject, and the background. If you can't really control those variables, then a bigger sensor will give you a better shot at getting OOF.
 

Lili

Hall of Famer
Location
Dallas, TX
Real Name
Lili
I agree with the poster that said for shallow DOF then bigger format is better.
But i would add the caveat that since you seem to prefer the longer focal lengths it may not matter quite so much, at least in m4/3 terms
Here is my best effort with my E-PL2 and an Adaptd 50mm F2 Pentax lens (100mm-e)
7994348330_3a7c820aa5_b.jpg

this was wide open, shot from about 2-3 feet distance.
This is a bit further out
7994357763_4ee38cf2fb_b.jpg
 

Isoterica

Hall of Famer
To the OP: I would consider getting the Sigma 30/1.4 for your Canon APS-C DSLR. It has a lovely, smooth character to the bokeh with good central sharpness even wide open. DOF with that lens seems more shallow than one would expect from a 30/1.4 on APS-C. It's one failing is that the autofocus can be hit or miss, but a good copy of the lens will serve you well in getting the look you seek.

This was one of the lenses I was considering when I was looking for wider [to bring me closer to 50mm on my 1.6 crop]. I ended up with the Canon 28 1.8 because that was I had access to locally but the Sigma renders beautiful out of focus backgrounds, the bokeh is stunning and you can see the results of that and the Canon lens on Flickr.
 
You seem to be mentioning DOF an awful lot. If that's really important to you (it is to me), skip the m4/3, you'll bump in the DOF limitation continuously, you'll be better served with an APS-C sensor. m4/3 people will tell you the difference is irrelevant with the proper lenses. I beg to disagree. I'm a thin DOF lover and going back to APS-C after 7 months of intensive m4/3 use has been a REAL treat. I think either NEX or Fuji might offer what you're after.

Well I sort of want to like the format.. I am selling it to myself..

Theres no reason I cant 'add' a MFT setup instead of it being either or.. If I end up not carrying the APSC / DSLR setup.. Or craving full frame body, I will at least have learnt that and will have to make the sacrifices of carrying the kit.
 
If you really want good OOF, pay attention to the distance between you, your subject, and the background. If you can't really control those variables, then a bigger sensor will give you a better shot at getting OOF.

Thats an area I hope to work on and toy with.. But I think now, its at the stage where simply reading more reviews, more specs, more comparisons.. Isnt helping much.. Not that it isnt great to see people take the time to put up demonstration shots, thats super helpful !!

I need to just get out and use the kit, and if that means buying something that then doesnt work out, I can live with that.
 
To the OP: I would consider getting the Sigma 30/1.4 for your Canon APS-C DSLR. It has a lovely, smooth character to the bokeh with good central sharpness even wide open. DOF with that lens seems more shallow than one would expect from a 30/1.4 on APS-C. It's one failing is that the autofocus can be hit or miss, but a good copy of the lens will serve you well in getting the look you seek.

God damn.. I thought I was out but they keep pulling me back in !!!

Just as I thought I had it mapped out for my trial and errors.. That comes up.. And looking at some flickr shots, that lens takes some really nice shots, totally in the style of what I think I want to achieve..

Sigh.. Yet more ebay trawling.
 

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