GAS Considering a new system. Maybe Sony.

[davidzvi]

So, the O-M1 is the first m4/3 camera I've bought that I'm not enjoying. It's a fine camera, images are good. I got some lovely images on my trip to Greece. I'm just not enjoying using it.

What to get in its place? I don't think I'll go down the Nikon road again. The Z7II was great as was the 24-120. I'm leaning in a few directions.

First I think I'll sell off a good bit of stuff but get either an E-M10.4/E-M5.3/OM-5 to go with a few smaller primes, sealed, lenses, and the 12-200 for the occasional sporting event, nature walk, etc. The E-M10.4 wouldn't be sealed, but they are pretty cheap right now.

Second?

I considered the Fuji X-S20. Does that give me anything more than just replacing my old E-M1.2? Not really sure. I also considered the X-T5. I do like the WR primes. But I have read and listened to several reviews that comment on the zooms not being up to the 40mp sensor (other than the f/2.8s which I am not interested in).

No interest in Canon, medium format, and don't want to afford Leica.

That leaves Sony. When I was looking back in July, I had considered an A7RIV. Since then Sony has released the more interesting (at least to me) A7CR and A7CII. I must say the Sony 20-70 is pretty interesting. Decisions, decisions,....

 

[BruceRH]

Ah, Sony...I have had the A7Rii, A7RIV, A1 and the original A7C, now I have the A7CR, which I like the best out of all of these so far. But, it is still a Sony which to me is a little soulless and more of an image taking machine, just my humble opinion. I much prefer Olympus (I like my OM1, OM5 and E-P7 and the Pen-F) and I have really come to like Leica. The A7CR has its place mainly because of the AF and well, it is a machine that performs most of the time (the AF still gives me fits sometimes when the focus point inexplicably goes off to a corner, I'm sure it is user error). I do like that I can use my Leica mount lenses on the A7CR with an adapter and then of course the 61mp sensor makes nearly every lens a zoom lens with cropping. The A7CR is also very compact and light, a complaint I had with the larger A7x bodies, they were/are very dense. I looked at the X-T5 but I do not want another system, but it does seem to be an excellent body. I have plenty of FE mount lenses, including my favorites from Voigtlander and Zeiss Loxia. If you do get one of the A7C's, get the Sony 28-60 "kit" lens, it punches well above it's weight and it is very compact. Complaints about the EVF on these new A7's are a bit blown out of proportion, again MHO. The A7CR has continued to grow on me, it performs very well and that sensor leaves nothing on the table.

 

[gryphon1911]

If the XT5 is too many megapixels and you want to use smaller zooms, the XT4 is a viable option. Liked it when I had one.

If that is still too big and it may be too much of a tool, more than an inspirational camera, look at the XPro or XE cameras.

 

[drd1135]

So, the O-M1 is the first m4/3 camera I've bought that I'm not enjoying. It's a fine camera, images are good. I got some lovely images on my trip to Greece. I'm just not enjoying using it.

What to get in its place? I don't think I'll go down the Nikon road again. The Z7II was great as was the 24-120. I'm leaning in a few directions.

First I think I'll sell off a good bit of stuff but get either an E-M10.4/E-M5.3/OM-5 to go with a few smaller primes, sealed, lenses, and the 12-200 for the occasional sporting event, nature walk, etc. The E-M10.4 wouldn't be sealed, but they are pretty cheap right now.

Second?

I considered the Fuji X-S20. Does that give me anything more than just replacing my old E-M1.2? Not really sure. I also considered the X-T5. I do like the WR primes. But I have read and listened to several reviews that comment on the zooms not being up to the 40mp sensor (other than the f/2.8s which I am not interested in).

No interest in Canon, medium format, and don't want to afford Leica.

That leaves Sony. When I was looking back in July, I had considered an A7RIV. Since then Sony has released the more interesting (at least to me) A7CR and A7CII. I must say the Sony 20-70 is pretty interesting. Decisions, decisions,....

Sony can be a major GAS deposit. They make great cameras with amazing AF. Lots of good lenses both native and third party. Technically superb images. Rumor has it they might loosen up the firmware updates. I had an A7Riii with the 42 mp sensor. It was a fine camera. Still, I traded it in and switched back to Fuji. Hard to provide a rational reason, but I simply enjoy using Fujis with all of their flaws. Sony to get the job done and Fuji for creativity. For the record, I now use an XT3 and an XT5. Even if all the lenses are not up to the 40 mp sensor, the XT5 can still produce great images if the lens is only up to 33 mp by reducing the image to the lower MP size. I probably should try comparing the downsampled T5 images with like-sized T3 images, but I’m not much of a measurer in photographic matters. I have used it with my 16-80 and it produces higher resolution than the XT3. I always found it funny that Fuji sold the XT5 with the 16-80 given that by their own admission it couldn’t take full advantage of the sensor. Some of this online chatter about zooms was at least partially an AF issue which is now supposedly fixed.

 

[davidzvi]

Thanks, Bruce. If I do go with Sony I'd go for the Sony 20-70 and a prime or two. Sony FE 35mm f/1.8, Tamron 20mm/24mm F2.8, and something wider.

 

[BruceRH]

The 20-70 looks to be a wonderful lens, I wouldn't be surprised if one showed up at my doorstep one day 🤣 I got the 28-60 when I bought the original A7C and kept the lens when I sold the body. It is super compact and is a great walk around lens during the day. Take a look at the Sigma DG DN lenses too, I have them in 35/45/90 forms. Then there are the Samyang/Rokinon lenses. I tried the 35 and 75, I especially liked the 75 but I bought them direct as a pair and the 35 felt too cheap in my hands so I sent both back. They are very light and pair well with the A7C series. I bought them before I got my A7C, I may revisit the 75 someday, from what I remember, the rendering was very nice.

 

[MountainMan79]

I really wanted to love the 20-70. I did not. It’s competent from 24-70, but not inspiring, and a mess at the wide end…unless of course you shoot jpgs and allow it do optical corrections. I did however love the 35mm 1.4 GM.

So, not unlike you, my E-M1x was a fine camera that took lovely photos, but I just didn’t jive with it. I’ve had opportunities through work to shoot all 3 “big” brands, and own some of them as well. I opted to make my FF mirrorless system a Canon. I know you say you have no interest, and I’m not sure why, but I’m sure you have your reasons. I would say one of the reasons I chose them was I believe they had the finest optics available. That, and I found the “amazing” AF of Sony to really be no more superior than that of the Canon. Another
caveat however, as a (former) Nikon shooter - if the Z8 existed a year earlier, I’d be shooting that today. I’ve never been fond of the Z6/Z7…like the E-M1X, something about them just didn’t do it for me. The Z8 is a wonderful camera, and Nikons lenses are probably second to only Canons (imho).

Now, all that said, the A74 or A7R5 are outstanding cameras, that finally feel ergonomically good, and both have a menu system that no longer will drive you mad. They’re small(ish), satisfying to interact with, and I enjoyed my time with them, both loaned and personally purchased. I have since parted with them and put all my eggs into the Canon basket fwiw. Oh, also the A7C2 feels really nice in the hand too.

End of the day, no one is making a bad camera any more, and you’ll get great shots from any of them. But some you’ll love and others you won’t, as you’re already aware. I followed the “marry the lens, date the body” adage, and went for the system I believed had the most attractive optics, even if the assortment was limited compared to others.

Either way, maybe rent some of the short list contenders for a weekend here or there? I think getting hands on with any of them will help you figure out what’s right for you.

 

[davidzvi]

If the XT5 is too many megapixels and you want to use smaller zooms, the XT4 is a viable option. Liked it when I had one.

If that is still too big and it may be too much of a tool, more than an inspirational camera, look at the XPro or XE cameras.

Not too many MP for me, I think too many for the zoom lenses I would want to get. When I was looking at the Z7II I was also looking at an A7RIV. One of the salespeople told me the 20-70 wasn't up to the 61mp sensor. I have since found out that is not the case.

My end goal is a smallish system and a higher MP system. The m4/3 lenses I'm probably hanging on to are:
P14 = Small
O9-18 = Wide
O20 Pro / S56 = Fast
O12-45 Pro = General use and sealed
O12-200 = occasional wildlife, baseball, ...

These lenses (other than the 2 Pros) aren't worth much. So I'm thinking of pairing them with an E-M5.3 or OM-5 as my small kit. I'd go for an E-M10.4, but I think it makes more sense to get a sealed body since 4 of the 6 lenses have environmental sealing.

It's the "bigger" and more MP system I'm

 

[davidzvi]

Sony can be a major GAS deposit. They make great cameras with amazing AF. Lots of good lenses both native and third party. Technically superb images. Rumor has it they might loosen up the firmware updates. I had an A7Riii with the 42 mp sensor. It was a fine camera. Still, I traded it in and switched back to Fuji. Hard to provide a rational reason, but I simply enjoy using Fujis with all of their flaws. Sony to get the job done and Fuji for creativity. For the record, I now use an XT3 and an XT5. Even if all the lenses are not up to the 40 mp sensor, the XT5 can still produce great images if the lens is only up to 33 mp by reducing the image to the lower MP size. I probably should try comparing the downsampled T5 images with like-sized T3 images, but I’m not much of a measurer in photographic matters. I have used it with my 16-80 and it produces higher resolution than the XT3. I always found it funny that Fuji sold the XT5 with the 16-80 given that by their own admission it couldn’t take full advantage of the sensor. Some of this online chatter about zooms was at least partially an AF issue which is now supposedly fixed.

The problem for me is the Fuji primes 🤩. The zooms are kind of 🥱

I would want at least one zoom that's at least ☺️

 

[davidzvi]

The 20-70 looks to be a wonderful lens, I wouldn't be surprised if one showed up at my doorstep one day 🤣 I got the 28-60 when I bought the original A7C and kept the lens when I sold the body. It is super compact and is a great walk around lens during the day. Take a look at the Sigma DG DN lenses too, I have them in 35/45/90 forms. Then there are the Samyang/Rokinon lenses. I tried the 35 and 75, I especially liked the 75 but I bought them direct as a pair and the 35 felt too cheap in my hands so I sent both back. They are very light and pair well with the A7C series. I bought them before I got my A7C, I may revisit the 75 someday, from what I remember, the rendering was very nice.

I've looked at several primes, and what stands out for me on the Tamron and Sony 1.8 is the minimum focus. The Tamrons are 1:2 and the Sony 35 is close focus with f/1.8.

 

[davidzvi]

...... I opted to make my FF mirrorless system a Canon. I know you say you have no interest, and I’m not sure why, but I’m sure you have your reasons.....

They are a fine tool that many use very well. They just offer nothing that interests me. If they work for you, great.

 

[MountainMan79]

They are a fine tool that many use very well. They just offer nothing that interests me. If they work for you, great.

No need to explain it to me. Hopefully you got something useful from my response, in terms of my first hand experience with some of the gear you’re looking at.

 

[mnhoj]

I really enjoyed sampling EOS R gear. R6/R5, 50 1.2, 1.8/2.0 primes. Amazing AF and nice ergos. Just ran out of investment capital at the time. ( :

 

[agentlossing]

Am I the only one who kind of feels like the pickings are a bit slim for stills shooters these days? On paper there are a lot of great cameras, but very few of them call out to me.

 

[MiguelATF]

So, the O-M1 is the first m4/3 camera I've bought that I'm not enjoying. It's a fine camera, images are good. I got some lovely images on my trip to Greece. I'm just not enjoying using it.

What to get in its place? I don't think I'll go down the Nikon road again. The Z7II was great as was the 24-120. I'm leaning in a few directions.

First I think I'll sell off a good bit of stuff but get either an E-M10.4/E-M5.3/OM-5 to go with a few smaller primes, sealed, lenses, and the 12-200 for the occasional sporting event, nature walk, etc. The E-M10.4 wouldn't be sealed, but they are pretty cheap right now.

Second?

I considered the Fuji X-S20. Does that give me anything more than just replacing my old E-M1.2? Not really sure. I also considered the X-T5. I do like the WR primes. But I have read and listened to several reviews that comment on the zooms not being up to the 40mp sensor (other than the f/2.8s which I am not interested in).

No interest in Canon, medium format, and don't want to afford Leica.

That leaves Sony. When I was looking back in July, I had considered an A7RIV. Since then Sony has released the more interesting (at least to me) A7CR and A7CII. I must say the Sony 20-70 is pretty interesting. Decisions, decisions,....

I have zero advice or suggestions to offer you, David - but having looked at, appreciated, and studied your photographs over quite a few years, I'm curious what you will choose and why. My only two observations, and these are personal ones which really reflect my own experience with different cameras, is--
First, the Fujis I've shot with recently - an X-T3, an X-Pro3, and now an X-T5 - easily create the most intriguing (and for me, the 'best') colors of any camera I've ever used. Of course, I'm semi addicted to quite a few of the internal Fuji jpeg simulations, as well as the 'recipes' for them - but several contemporary Fuji photographers who only shoot RAW (especially Charlene Winfred and Patrick Laroque) still manage to create remarkable colors with their Fujis. And btw you are totally right-- many of the Fuji primes (including, but not limited to the WR ones) are truly the lenses to get if you dive into the Fuji-alternate universe. The zooms are somewhere between excellent and adequate but personally, I find them boring compared to the primes. I've only extensively used two Sonys - an Rx1R and an RX10.IV - and both had lenses that were not merely good...but extraordinary. For me, the attraction of Sonys would simply be getting to use some of those wonderful Zeiss lenses with them... and that alone might be worth the price of admission.

Regardless of what you decide, please remember that along with other members of the D.F.C. (Davidzfi.Fan.Clb), I am looking forwards to your next chapter... and seeing more of your images!

 

[William Lewis]

Could always find yourself a gently used Leica M10 or even a Type 246 for that monochrome only experience ... < whistles innocently >

Sorry, just never found the Sony's interesting so I had to be smart-alecky. More seriously, good luck with your search and choice.

 

[davidzvi]

Am I the only one who kind of feels like the pickings are a bit slim for stills shooters these days? On paper there are a lot of great cameras, but very few of them call out to me.

You are not, it's definitely part of the problem for me.

 

[davidzvi]

Could always find yourself a gently used Leica M10 or even a Type 246 for that monochrome only experience ... < whistles innocently >

Sorry, just never found the Sony's interesting so I had to be smart-alecky. More seriously, good luck with your search and choice.

Fortunately, IBIS and AF are requirements for me so... I have looked a the Q and CL series in the past. I think I'm lucky they never put IBIS in the CL and that they discontinued it.

 

[William Lewis]

You aren't kidding about the E-M10.4 being cheap right now. One sold locally with under 2,000 clicks (mint condition) for $375. That is only a little more than what some are asking for the E-M10.2, which has gained some type of following. I was very tempted to pick up that E-M10.4, it lasted over a month at that price.

That could almost tempt me back to the m4/3 fold if I saw one at that price round here. I really like my Nikon FF but there are some real good bits to m4/3 and that with a good 25mm prime would be a very tasty combo.

 

[davidzvi]

I really wanted to love the 20-70. I did not. It’s competent from 24-70, but not inspiring, and a mess at the wide end…unless of course you shoot jpgs and allow it do optical corrections. I did however love the 35mm 1.4 GM......

No need to explain it to me. Hopefully you got something useful from my response, in terms of my first hand experience with some of the gear you’re looking at.

I did find this a bit interesting, While there is a good bit of barrel distortion at 20mm, everything I've read said it's well correct with lens profile in Lightroom.