discussion of wanting critique

Landshark

PhotoDog
Jul 15, 2010
124
SoCal
Bob
Ray - Last night sunset

Only thing that bugs me is the frame - rounded corners thin black thin white
its a classy shot but the frame isn't - mostly because of the corners (IMO of course)
The borders do not bother me at all, the rounded or rough corner were something we used to do on purpose by filing our negative carriers for the enlarger. It was an artistic way to say you had used the whole frame.
 

Landshark

PhotoDog
Jul 15, 2010
124
SoCal
Bob
Back to what I said originally I did not think the OP and some others were looking for critiques, they just want to know that when they post an image it was viewed. I think the thanks button helps with that but there are times where I know I have not used it as I should have, and some images have no acknowledgement at all. People post images to share their vision and story, thet sometimes just want to know it was enjoyed.
 

ReD

Hall of Famer
Mar 27, 2013
123
The borders do not bother me at all, the rounded or rough corner were something we used to do on purpose by filing our negative carriers for the enlarger. It was an artistic way to say you had used the whole frame.
That's the major flaw with offering critique - its always personal opinion.
Sometimes its a Taught / Learned process especially if school taught - but IMO that can lead to standardisation & recipe formula
 

ReD

Hall of Famer
Mar 27, 2013
123
Back to what I said originally I did not think the OP and some others were looking for critiques, they just want to know that when they post an image it was viewed. I think the thanks button helps with that but there are times where I know I have not used it as I should have, and some images have no acknowledgement at all. People post images to share their vision and story, thet sometimes just want to know it was enjoyed.
+1 & My take exactly
 

pdh

Legend
Jan 2, 2011
123
I don't see the fact that a critique is necessarily opinionated as being a flaw.

Almost any statement outside the most abstruse forms of logic contain opinion (and even then logicians can come to blows).

What can be at issue is that different people use different criteria to judge the goodness or otherwise of an image. Some of those criteria will be matters of personal taste (again, necessarily).

If someone is open-minded enough to ask for "critique" then we must hope they are also open-minded enough to listen to everything that's said and then form their own judgment on which things they find of value.

In the same way that even good advice doesn't have to be taken (can be ignored, wilfully or otherwise), no-one is obliged to accept that a highly critical critique (sorry, can't find a better way of expressing that) is true or that one has to modify one's photography as a result.

If someone were to look at one of my photographs and tell me it's a bad photograph because it doesn't follow the rule of thirds, that it doesn't read left-to-right and because the viewer's eye isn't led properly and if you place a golden spiral over nothing touches where it should ... I really wouldn't give a toss, because those are not desiderata for most of my pictures.

On the other hand, for someone who likes to take photographs in a quite formal way, who wants their photographs to be balanced and rhythmic and transparent in certain ways, then having some of the things mentioned above would be intensely useful and interesting (if a bit off-pissing).

So what can get in the way of useful "critique" is that the photographer's intent and the critic's assumption of intent can be at entirely cross purposes. Of course that might in itself be rather invigorating (or it might lead to a bloody-nosed standoff)

There's something else too: Photographs tend to be judged according to very particular criteria - having a "clear subject" is very often one of them, for instance. But for me, I see no reason to apply special criteria in making a judgment about a photograph that I would not apply to a work made in other media.

It makes as much sense to me to be told "Your photograph lacks a clear subject" as it would to stand in front of a Jackson Pollock and be asked "What's that supposed to be of ?" ... etc.
 

KillRamsey

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2012
124
Hood River, OR
Kyle
I'm absolutely looking for critique. I want and need the help of other people, not only those who are "better," but who simply are not me. I have great difficulty seeing my own forest for the trees, as it were.
 

Boid

All-Pro
Dec 15, 2011
123
Bangalore, India
Rajiv
Hi Kyle, I just wanted to chip in that I really enjoy your pictures. I find your pictures have a very strong graphic quality to it. You obviously have a way of looking at the world that resonates with me. I also think that you understand light very well, and that's something so many people (myself included) struggle with. Might I make a suggestion? If you can, start thinking in terms or narration instead of individual images. Create sets of images that tell various facets of a story. You already know a lot about making an image so it would be great if you expand it to cover a narration across an image set. You might find that different subjects might need to be shot and processed differently. Anyways, that's my two cents and I wish you keep posting pictures.
 

pdh

Legend
Jan 2, 2011
123
Also I agree with Bob about the desire to have acknowledgement sometimes that one has bothered to post a photo. Thanks are very useful things and don;t have to be seen as uncritical mindless saying-something-nice-for-the-sake-of-saying-something-nice.

I've thanked photos that I thought were technical failures or that I found aesthetically displeasing simply because I recognised that something new was being tried or because it was evocative, or even provocative. It's possible to admire something and be pleased it exists without necessarily liking it.
 

KillRamsey

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2012
124
Hood River, OR
Kyle
Hi Kyle, I just wanted to chip in that I really enjoy your pictures. I find your pictures have a very strong graphic quality to it. You obviously have a way of looking at the world that resonates with me. I also think that you understand light very well, and that's something so many people (myself included) struggle with. Might I make a suggestion? If you can, start thinking in terms or narration instead of individual images. Create sets of images that tell various facets of a story. You already know a lot about making an image so it would be great if you expand it to cover a narration across an image set. You might find that different subjects might need to be shot and processed differently. Anyways, that's my two cents and I wish you keep posting pictures.
Very interesting. And I think sometimes I do this now, and then in post or at the time of sharing them, I think "oh you're posting too many damned pictures" and I pick one. Like the crow in the water fountain in Vancouver... I was staking out that fountain hoping to catch something good happening at it. Daughter and wife went for a drink, I snapped a couple of pictures. Then when they left, a crow flew over and started drinking out of it. Then he looked at me, drank some more, and flew off.








...looking at these, though, maybe you meant something a little deeper. These are all static, with the background and I not moving. Identical light. You meant something better than this, I think.
 

Landshark

PhotoDog
Jul 15, 2010
124
SoCal
Bob
Having taught a few workshops it has always fascinated me that given the same assignment everybody's vision is so different. We all have opinions of what we like or not, and more interesting is how we change and modify those ideas over time.
That being said I have no problem with people giving critiques, try shooting in the professional public arena where there is nothing but criticism. I just still think that there should be critiques when asked and just acknowledgment when not asked. An example for me is that there was a large period in my personal and sometimes professional work where there was never a level horizon line, I just became bored with being straight. The last thing I wanted to hear then would be, nice image but it would be better with a level horizon line.

Or last year we received some foolish public criticism for some supposed bad Photoshop work that was actual done in camera live with a technique invented long before most of the critics had ever heard of a camera. I have no problem with people disliking or even hating the images but I just wish they would educate themselves before they post their thoughts
 

Landshark

PhotoDog
Jul 15, 2010
124
SoCal
Bob
Very interesting. And I think sometimes I do this now, and then in post or at the time of sharing them, I think "oh you're posting too many damned pictures" and I pick one. Like the crow in the water fountain in Vancouver... I was staking out that fountain hoping to catch something good happening at it. Daughter and wife went for a drink, I snapped a couple of pictures. Then when they left, a crow flew over and started drinking out of it. Then he looked at me, drank some more, and flew off.








...looking at these, though, maybe you meant something a little deeper. These are all static, with the background and I not moving. Identical light. You meant something better than this, I think.
I like the last one best, can I see things I would do differently yes but that would not necessarily make it better just different
 

Boid

All-Pro
Dec 15, 2011
123
Bangalore, India
Rajiv
These are all static, with the background and I not moving. Identical light.
These are great, but I did mean something else. I meant creating a set in the way of conveying drama, space, character, etc into a narrative. Imagine creating a storyboard for a short film with pictures. Let me share an example that I find fascinating, Alec Soth's "Sleeping by the Mississippi" (http://alecsoth.com/photography/?page_id=14). Now a story need not be a year long project that takes over your life (though that would be great too), it could just be a day out with your camera. Sometimes the story would come to you after you've shot instinctively when out and about, and the pieces fall into place only once you're back at your computer editing.

The story is not really about the light or the field of view, etc, those become tools in your arsenal to talk about a subject or situation. Thinking in terms of image sets is a lot of fun. One instinctively does it when traveling because it's linear. I did this and then I did this and this, it's a simple linear narrative. Things tend to get interesting when one ditches a linear narrative and instead chooses to examine a situation or a subject without the aid of a timeline. I hope this makes sense.
 

davect01

Hall of Famer
A lot depends on timing of posts and interests of others, not necessarily your skill.

1- You may post some images, and then others post a bunch and yours get lost.

2- People may only be looking at images that interest them. Some only care about cats, or buildings or street style.

Don't give up, this should be about what pleases you and hopefully others will chime in.
 
Jan 31, 2011
164
Newcastle, Australia
Sue
I think another thing that happens is that sometimes people (like me) get pressed for time and only look at the sidebar where recent posts are listed, but not *all* recent posts are there, only the 20 or so most recent. So lots get missed that way. I'm happy just to get an acknowledgement, I don't see it as approval or disapproval, just that someone took the time to look, which is fine.
 

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
124
I started a community on Google + with a very simple rule:

Post one. Critique one.

We discourage "Likefests" and image dumping, and I think that people appreciate the time that others take offering their critiques so that they feel compelled to do the same. It's run pretty smoothly with little adult supervision. Here's the group for anyone curious: https://plus.google.com/communities/112818839210511664016

Perhaps we can start something like that here?
 

ReD

Hall of Famer
Mar 27, 2013
123
I think another thing that happens is that sometimes people (like me) get pressed for time and only look at the sidebar where recent posts are listed, but not *all* recent posts are there, only the 20 or so most recent. So lots get missed that way. I'm happy just to get an acknowledgement, I don't see it as approval or disapproval, just that someone took the time to look, which is fine.
It also depends on which header you look under - For instance Photography Techniques does not feature under Image Threads, but does under Active Threads - why this should happen is anyone's guess, but from my standpoint Techniques is far more relevant to image than the camera used. Therefore the uptake on the Techniques section gets bypassed.
 

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