Dogs Dogs (part II)

John King said:
In all fairness, Chris, manually focusing on a standing doggie is a touch easier than an AF system focussing on a running dog ... Don't you think?

Lovely shot of your dog, BTW.
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Thanks. The EXIF is wrong on that one (my error - I forgot to set the FL to 135mm (Konica AR Hexanon 135mm f3.2 to be precise). It comes down to different skills/camera behaviour I suspect. If a GFX shot is out of focus expecially with manual lenses (thats all I have really) then its definately my fault but with the OM-1 and its subject detection, I feel like it is not letting me know that it can't keep up or is focusing on something other than the head but instead just blindly reporting that its tracking my pooch and all is fine 😃. It lacks feedback that something isn't going to plan and that is very frustrating. No matter of settings I find help, I suspect its the size/colouring of my pooch but some cameras handle it better.
 
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cedge said:
Thanks. The EXIF is wrong on that one (my error - I forgot to set the FL to 135mm (Konica AR Hexanon 135mm f3.2 to be precise). It comes down to different skills/camera behaviour I suspect. If a GFX shot is out of focus expecially with manual lenses (thats all I have really) then its definately my fault but with the OM-1 and its subject detection, I feel like it is not letting me know that it can't keep up or is focusing on something other than the head but instead just blindly reporting that its tracking my pooch and all is fine 😃. It lacks feedback that something isn't going to plan and that is very frustrating. No matter of settings I find help, I suspect its the size/colouring of my pooch but some cameras handle it better.
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Have you tried just the eye recognition and a reasonably fast shutter? I find the OM-1 options are great, but need to be used very selectively. If following one dog in centre frame I wouldn't be using either tracking or subject detection.
 
cedge said:
Thanks. The EXIF is wrong on that one (my error - I forgot to set the FL to 135mm (Konica AR Hexanon 135mm f3.2 to be precise). It comes down to different skills/camera behaviour I suspect. If a GFX shot is out of focus expecially with manual lenses (thats all I have really) then its definately my fault but with the OM-1 and its subject detection, I feel like it is not letting me know that it can't keep up or is focusing on something other than the head but instead just blindly reporting that its tracking my pooch and all is fine 😃. It lacks feedback that something isn't going to plan and that is very frustrating. No matter of settings I find help, I suspect its the size/colouring of my pooch but some cameras handle it better.
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One of the issues is that the Subject Detection doesn't work at the same speed as the C-AF AND the C-AF can prioritise the closer elements at the centre od the frame above the Subject Detection choice (I see this often with birds).
The Subject Detection works very fast and offers a good live view presentation of the sensor seeing the subject from the live view data.
The C-AF on the other hand seems to be unable to keep up with the subject (the doggie) even though the camera can recognise the dog. I often have images of in focus ears but the eyes are slightly out of focus and sometimes it drifts more severely towards the mid body section or even the tail. It does eventually catch up but then it falls back again. And thats with +2 AF sensitivity and without Tracking.

Now one of my issues with this is that I have to "ask" the dog to do multiple runs to make sure I have enough in focus and the right body posture position BUT as it gets warmer it gets more difficult for the dogs to keep cool and not overheat. I can give my little girl a break, thats fine, but with other people's dogs it means it will either cut into my time or their time. Reliability is absolutely needed if I am going to ask to be paid for this kind of work (which I hope I can one day).

The other side of the problem os the unique moments, for example 2 or more dogs playing, if I miss the cutest moment then I may not get another one or as good as that one. At these kinds of shots one can use smaller apertures for more DoF which negates some of the out of focus issues but for portraits having some background blur is expected and wanted.

With the Oly 40-150mm f 2.8 PRO you have q significant advantage at 40mm compared to Oly 12-40mm f 2.8 PRO at the long end because you still have 2 AF motors working together compared to one for the same DoF.
 
IanE said:
Have you tried just the eye recognition and a reasonably fast shutter? I find the OM-1 options are great, but need to be used very selectively. If following one dog in centre frame I wouldn't be using either tracking or subject detection.
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I don't think that setup is possible; you can't just enable pet eye recognition; it's either subject detection on or off. I've tried subject detection on/off, tracking on/off, faster shutter speeds, mech/electrical shutter, different AF sensitivities, different sized AF area boxes and I've even tried bird detection which doesn't work that well for my pooch. Running out of things to try differently other than the 40-150 f2.8 lens. or another camera.

This morning when I was trying Subject Detect + C-AF Tracking, again what I was seeing on the LCD was very encouraging; the green box locked on my pooch running towards me but the actual results were terrible.
 
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cedge said:
I don't think that setup is possible; you can't just enable pet eye recognition; it's either subject detection on or off. I've tried subject detection on/off, tracking on/off, faster shutter speeds, mech/electrical shutter, different AF sensitivities, different sized AF area boxes and I've even tried bird detection which doesn't work that well for my pooch. Running out of things to try differently other than the 40-150 f2.8 lens. or another camera.

This morning when I was trying Subject Detect + C-AF Tracking, again what I was seeing on the LCD was very encouraging; the green box locked on my pooch running towards me but the actual results were terrible.
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Face & eye detection is available without other options such as subject detect and tracking. I actually turn it off when photographing team sports shots as it hops the focus point about in scrum like situations. BTW the 40-150 2.8 is a superb lens, but the 12-40 is also marvelous.
 
IanE said:
Face & eye detection is available without other options such as subject detect and tracking. I actually turn it off when photographing team sports shots as it hops the focus point about in scrum like situations. BTW the 40-150 2.8 is a superb lens, but the 12-40 is also marvelous.
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That is for humans only, not animals. That is what holds me back from getting the 40-150 in that if the 12-40 struggles, is the 40-150 really doing to do any better and besides is the camera body that seems to be producing too many false positives in showing that it has detected and is tracking my subject only for the results not to align with that view.
 
My last word on the subject, with a quick quote I found just now:
"The OM-1's eye detection system can work on animals, even without explicitly activating the "Subject Detection" modes. The OM-1's advanced autofocus system includes "face and eye detection" which can recognize and track the eyes of animals, including dogs and cats, according to Australian Geographic. While Subject Detection modes like "dog" or "cat" can further enhance tracking, the basic eye detection feature will still work."
 
IanE said:
My last word on the subject, with a quick quote I found just now:
"The OM-1's eye detection system can work on animals, even without explicitly activating the "Subject Detection" modes. The OM-1's advanced autofocus system includes "face and eye detection" which can recognize and track the eyes of animals, including dogs and cats, according to Australian Geographic. While Subject Detection modes like "dog" or "cat" can further enhance tracking, the basic eye detection feature will still work."
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Didn't realise this would work but upon testing I'm not sure I would put much faith in it for dogs in action; it detected the face/eyes of some random dog images online but when I tried on my cat/dog in the house it failed to detect them. Switched subject detect back on and it 'detected' them with no issues.
 
Anyway, back to dog pictures. This was a lucky shot with the OM-1, I was testing the Olympus 50-200 as I had read that the OM-1 improves the performance of old 4/3 FT lenses but in my experience and for my purposes (running dogs) it still doesn't do very well which is a shame as the pictures are great from it.

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cedge said:
I suspect its the size/colouring of my pooch but some cameras handle it better.
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I had a handsome black lab for 15 years. After a bath he was so magnificent. Then I try to take a picture of him and it just looks like a black doggie shaped silhouette with brown eyes. Add a flash to the mix, and I'd get a black doggie shaped silhouette, with various blown out highlights from his glossy coat.

My golden retriever, on the other hand, was a piece of cake to photograph. And he was so photogenic. The camera loved him.
 
starcolony said:
I had a handsome black lab for 15 years. After a bath he was so magnificent. Then I try to take a picture of him and it just looks like a black doggie shaped silhouette with brown eyes. Add a flash to the mix, and I'd get a black doggie shaped silhouette, with various blown out highlights from his glossy coat.

My golden retriever, on the other hand, was a piece of cake to photograph. And he was so photogenic. The camera loved him.
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This is why photographing dogs is so taxing on the cameras, whether they are pure black or pure white or worse, both and many more colours, the camera sensor is taxed hard for the DR to get all the accurate colours in the highlights and all the fine dark details in the shadows and inky blacks. And that's even at base ISO if you have enough light and a fast enough lens. Then you have the eyes, which are almost always in the shade and sometimes covered by hair, most noses are pure black, and you have white teeth and a pink tongue if the mouth is wide open or sticking out. Editing my doggy pictures is one of the most time-consuming tasks, up there with BIFs (Birds in Flight) and Macro Stacking.
 
cedge said:
Still persevering with the OM-1 and 12-40 f2.8 combo at the moment; it doesn't seem to nail focus on my little dog all that well and has a tendency to miss her eyes/face and latch on to her back. In a burst of her running towards me, the focus drifts all over the place and I end up with a cica 50% hit rate at best at present (sequential low, 20fps, no ibis, release priority off, AF Sensitivity 0 (I find changing this makes no difference), C-AF (tracking OFF), Subject Detect ON - Dog/Cat). Would the 40-150 f2.8 improve the hit rate I wonder? Saying all that, I have managed to capture some great images, I just wish the consistency/reliability was higher.
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Hi Cedge,

I read a lot on the m43 thread at DPR prior to moving to the format. There were many threads on the OM-1 regarding exactly what you describe.
Some seemed happy enough and provided settings that they said worked best for them. But other than the fanbois who wouldn't have anything negative about OM, I don't think anyone said it was foolproof. Reading reviews of new cameras across all brands, it seems that objects moving more close or away are a big test for any AF system. A search on DPR might turn up something..? There were some quite / very accomplished wildlife shooters over there.
 
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My little girl turned 8 years old yesterday. This is my new favourite picture of her (she was waiting for me on top of the water edge of the duck pond while I was trying to get images of birds on reeds).

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I asked her nicely to have her little dress on since it was her special day.

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She was very happy on her evening walk.

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She even made a new friends and she was quite flirty.

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She has such a happy face when she gets in a playful and flirty mood. I wish I had the Oly 17mm with me to be able to get better framing up close and more DoF.
 
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She got very excited about her birthday gifts since Thursday when I brought them home.

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She knew they were for her as she was getting very happy and throwing me puppy eyes and trying to get on top of my desk constantly.

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She was most interested in the plushies and squeakies of course. She has 3 bags of chicken strips treats (one bag she shared with a doggy friend), lots of birthday treats, 2 mew plushy toys (the birthday cake is actually a plushy), a new hair brush, skin and hair supplement and a bottle of (alcohol-free) doggy wine (but she didn't like it so I gave it away to her doggy friend which he loves it).

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Nuggie's new toys.

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And plenty of huggies and cuddles.
 

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