I have dry fingers and it amazes me how many times I can poke at a touchscreen and have nothing happen. The only thing I like on the touchscreen is moving the AF point, although I use the joystick when the camera is to my eye.
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"DSLRs Are the New Leica"
- Thread starter agentlossing
- Start date
-
- Tags
- leica
- Location
- Seattle
- Name
- Andrew
I sometimes appreciate having a touchscreen on a camera, but never when the operation forces me into using it. An example of what I like is the Ricoh GR III series, where a screen tap can be set to focus, or release the shutter, or both... or can be set to activate the snap focus and exposure. The latter is interesting because you can tap anywhere in the screen and it will focus not to where you tapped but to the specified snap distance. An example of bad is when exposure controls are mapped to "onscreen buttons" which are spawn of Satan as far as I'm concerned.
- Location
- Seattle
- Name
- Andrew
I find it funny how the implicit suggestion in Samuel's video, in point #1 on the optical viewfinder, is that the SLR/DSLR viewfinder is almost a hybrid "best of both worlds" of EVF and a rangefinder's optical finder. Of course that's silly as the timelines are different, but in a sense it's not wrong. You get both an exact frame, which a rangefinder doesn't give you, and a direct connection with the world in front of you, which an EVF doesn't give you. We can get caught up in the the thinking which says that SLR mechanisms are archaic, that's been one of the drums beaten by mirrorless cameras for a while. It's not exactly wrong... I've been one of the ones who touted the advantages of M4/3 over the APS-C DSLR I had before, and really, the M4/3 cameras had better IQ and were easier to use. But that was partly because the Nikon D40 viewfinder was tiny and cramped. The mirrorless vs. DSLR is mostly about the size differences - but many bodies and lenses in modern mirrorless formats are getting rather large.
In other words, a mirror can be an archaic way of giving you a modern compromise which is sometimes really nice.
In other words, a mirror can be an archaic way of giving you a modern compromise which is sometimes really nice.
- Location
- Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
- Name
- John ...
Andrew, I upgraded my E-510 to an E-30 mainly because the latter had a 1x, 100% FoV pentaprism vs the E-510's 0.9x, 93% pentamirror OVF. Helped my framing and composition enormously.
And I have a love/hate relationship with touchscreens. IMNSHO they are a safety hazard in cars, and should be banned there.
I've used Rangefinders since 1969, SLR's since 1971, DSLR's since 1992, Digital RF's since 2010, and mirrorless from 2010.
They are very different from one another. They all have advantages and disadvantages. They are all tools, and best to know how and when to use each of them.
You can use a Monkey Wrench for a lot of things, but a purpose-built wrench is usually better if you have one and know how to use it.
They are very different from one another. They all have advantages and disadvantages. They are all tools, and best to know how and when to use each of them.
You can use a Monkey Wrench for a lot of things, but a purpose-built wrench is usually better if you have one and know how to use it.
- Location
- Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
- Name
- John ...
Tili, even very ordinary smartphones take better photos than the ubiquitous Instamatics of yore and most fixed lens 35mm film cameras.
They just don't have as wide an operating envelope as the latter.
Even my old Blackberry with its 5 MPx camera did better than the above. e.g.
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Modern phones are far superior. e.g.
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The Electric Squirrel
Top Veteran
- Location
- Finland
I don't think anyone is denying the fact that phone cameras have come a long way since their advent in the early 2000's when it comes to image quality. But ergonomically I'd argue that they've actually gone backwards. A bar of soap - since that's how all phones now are - isn't really ergonomically good for anything. Heck, it's even subpar as a phone! And as a camera the user experience is - nicely put - sorely lacking. But that's what you get when you combine multiple objects into one. Thinking of it, your common power drill would make for an ergonomically better camera than the current crop of phones...
Power drills - or anything with a pistol grip - are supremely ergonomic. If you look at items where precision and stability are paramount and where muscle power isn't tue defining factor - whether it be firearms, construction tools, or electrical surgical tools - they're likely to have a pistol grip. I'm not sure why it never really caught on for cameras (we all know the old 8mm video cams and there were some camcorders and medium format experiments but that's about it AFAIK), but vlogging cameras and action cams often have a pistol grip available for them.
As for cars using touchscreens for on-the-go functions, it makes my blood boil. Those models should be banned from the road and their designers should be banned from the automotive business.
OVFs in DLRSs: I've never owned one, but whenever I borrowed one from a friend I did massively enjoy the optical view of the scene, which secretly bugged me in my mirrorless-evangelical days
Nowadays I only use my screen-only Fuji XF10, but I turned off all the on-screen info until I half-press the shutter button, to minimize the distraction / maximize my connection to the scene.
As for cars using touchscreens for on-the-go functions, it makes my blood boil. Those models should be banned from the road and their designers should be banned from the automotive business.
OVFs in DLRSs: I've never owned one, but whenever I borrowed one from a friend I did massively enjoy the optical view of the scene, which secretly bugged me in my mirrorless-evangelical days
Nowadays I only use my screen-only Fuji XF10, but I turned off all the on-screen info until I half-press the shutter button, to minimize the distraction / maximize my connection to the scene.
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My thoughts exactly. Phones will never make decent cameras. Because by the time you add some sort of comfortable, ergonomically useful grip, a viewfinder, some decent manual controls, you no longer have a phone. What you have, is commonly known as a camera. Yes, I own one (smartphone) but only use it as an absolute last resort to take photos with. On a scale of 1-10, the enjoyment of using a phone camera to take pictures rates at about minus 976
I agree that phones are ergonomically terrible as cameras. Still, they take good images and it's always in my pocket. I love it when I can take a dedicated camera like the X-S10 but that's just not practical at all times. The phone allows me to take images pretty much anywhere and any when and that's a huge advantage.
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Petrochemist
Top Veteran
- Location
- N Essex, UK
- Name
- Mike
I think 2 of my cameras have touchscreens. Where the interface is well thought out I don't find them a disadvantage even if I rarely use the feature on one of them.
I've had numerous hire cars with touchscreen satnav/radio... None of them have featured driving controls something I agree should not be allowed.
Increasingly we're seeing touchscreens for controlling instruments at work, some of these have failed rapidly due to contamination from solvents/samples used in the lab.
Just watched it, if I`m cynical, it somewhat reeks of "contrarian desperation" or the need for being "special", something he somewhat admits to in last 1/3 of the video.
On the other hand, he have found something he likes, so why not?
The latest and greatest isn't always necessary, anyones five year old camera still has all the bells and whistles the makers put into the camera five to seven years* ago, and the camera makes the same output this day as it did the day it was brought home from the store, so keep at it.
Leica as a camera producer has admirably carved a niche in the photographer world, that they have managed to cling onto since the 30s, I dont think there are many with an interest for cameras that one time or another haven't entertained dirty dreams of owning a Leica system. I know I have, but honestly I dont think I would have been able to appreciate it other than for brand value and for it being perceived "special".
I think at this day and age, almost any camera from a decent brand are able to capture pictures that is technically next to flawless, so it is just a matter of picking ones poison and stroll forth and capture that decisive moment, which probably is a more interesting topic for discussion than gear as such, even though I will admit to being somewhat of a gearhead myself, within my chosen system.
*I hold 2015(ish) to be the year digital cameras reached maturity in general, there may be some brand and model specific leeway both ways. Not to say that cameras before that period is useless, I use models older than that with some regularity.
On the other hand, he have found something he likes, so why not?
The latest and greatest isn't always necessary, anyones five year old camera still has all the bells and whistles the makers put into the camera five to seven years* ago, and the camera makes the same output this day as it did the day it was brought home from the store, so keep at it.
Leica as a camera producer has admirably carved a niche in the photographer world, that they have managed to cling onto since the 30s, I dont think there are many with an interest for cameras that one time or another haven't entertained dirty dreams of owning a Leica system. I know I have, but honestly I dont think I would have been able to appreciate it other than for brand value and for it being perceived "special".
I think at this day and age, almost any camera from a decent brand are able to capture pictures that is technically next to flawless, so it is just a matter of picking ones poison and stroll forth and capture that decisive moment, which probably is a more interesting topic for discussion than gear as such, even though I will admit to being somewhat of a gearhead myself, within my chosen system.
*I hold 2015(ish) to be the year digital cameras reached maturity in general, there may be some brand and model specific leeway both ways. Not to say that cameras before that period is useless, I use models older than that with some regularity.
Glennn
Veteran
- Location
- New Jersey, USA
- Name
- Glen
Ergonomics? This is my solution for my big hands, small camera dilemma. 
That's exactly the reason I shoot a G9. And I don't really have huge hands. You get excellent, weathersealed build quality, all the higher end features, yet can still take advantage of all the tiny lenses. Such as my PL 9mm, PL 15, Lumix 20, PL 25, Oly 45mm, and so on.Ergonomics? This is my solution for my big hands, small camera dilemma.
- Location
- Seattle
- Name
- Andrew
I noticed that - I identify with that as well. I was contrarian when I used Panasonic cameras when no one thought they were any good, then I branched out into Ricoh, now I'm challenging convention with a Pentax DSLR when both of those terms might be seen to connote dinosaurs! I am a bit of a rebel.
I noticed when Samuel started to become a little obsessed with Leica (his tagline was "it must be nice") and I admit I was a little disappointed when he bought into the brand - not at all because I don't like Leica or think their cameras are good, but because I didn't think he was getting into them for the right reason (and also because the reason I followed him, the GR, was being sidelined by his enthusiasm for the red dot). I think he is pretty frank about the whole thing though, and find his observations on things as he transitions from one type of gear to another to be fairly good.
I mostly watch him for the sights and coverage of the things that go on around him on the streets, whether in Germany or Japan or elsewhere. He is a talented videographer and I like the way he integrates B-roll. My wife has enjoyed watching his videos along with me, even though she isn't really into the photography aspect. I thought his videos covering protests in Germany were particularly interesting.
- Name
- Miguel Tejada-Flores
I haven't used a Leica for years - not since the ancient analog days when I was shooting Tri-x in whatever camera I could get my hands on, and one of them happened to be an ancient Leica that my father kindly loaned me which, to be honest, wasn't the photographic equal of the Pentaxes which later replaced it in my own arsenal. But I can help grinning when I read references either to how great Leica's (supposedly) are - or what camera or brand can be viewed, by some segment of photographic cognoscenti, as 'the next Leica' or (and this is a classic one) 'the poor man's Leica."
As far as I'm concerned, they are tools - and like any other fine tool, there are some fine photographers who use them. Two of my favorite photographers, period, use Leicas: Peter Turnley and Craig Mod. But they use them in entirely different ways. Peter Turnley has been a preeminent photojournalist and documentary photographer for decades - and his output is nearly almost always in black & white, shot with digital rangefinders. His work is evocative, compelling, disturbing and jaw-droppingly arresting. And, like many other fine photojournalists, Leica's are his tool of choice. Craig Mod, on the other hand, came to his current digital Leica rangefinders after detours and thoughtful photographic experimentation with both mu-4/3 and compact Fujifilm bodies; his work is much harder to pigeonhole or classify, but his images tend to capture a sense of both place and time, and he doesn't just talk about his quest for dynamic range, he 'realizes' it in subtle but compelling visual ways in his photographs. Another of my favorite contemporary photographers, J.T. White, the transplanted Canadian who shoots largely in digital monochrome in his adopted city of Seoul, Korea, has created remarkable street images not only with Leicas, but also with Ricoh's, Olympuses, and various Fuji's; he somehow manages to achieve the same 'look' and 'feeling' no matter what camera he is using (and that includes his forays into iPhone-land). But then turn around and look at the work of Eugene Richards, one of the great living photojournalists, members of Magnum Photos, and like Peter Turnley, a long-term exponent of black & white photography. If you didn't know better, you might wrongly conclude that his images have some of that classic monochromatic Leica look to them - but in fact, much of his most brilliant work was shot with a handful of Olympus film SLR's.
I found the video occasionally amusing and interesting but Samuel Lin Taro's observations - on DSLR's and Leica's - made me roll my eyes a little, and his generalizations about DSLR's left me a little puzzled: apparently he started out with Canon DSLR's, then went through a Pentax phase, then a Ricoh phase, before using Leica's for awhile, and now singing the praises of large Nikons. Sure, they're all DSLR's, but for me there are far more differences between Pentaxes, Canons and Nikons than there are similarities. I think, at the end of the day, 'whatever floats your boat' is really what's important - whatever tool you use which allows you to consistently realize the best photographs, is all that matters. And, yeah, I'll admit that some of the characteristics of Fuji cameras remind me, in good ways, of my old Pentaxes. But, to be honest, some of the characteristics of my E-M1 and my GX9 do that, as well.
At the end of the day, it's all about the images. And how they affect (or don't) me.
But, that said, Samuel's photographic obsessions are definitely on the entertaining side - so my thanks to you for expanding my horizons, Andrew --- which this post has definitely done... and is continuing to do
As far as I'm concerned, they are tools - and like any other fine tool, there are some fine photographers who use them. Two of my favorite photographers, period, use Leicas: Peter Turnley and Craig Mod. But they use them in entirely different ways. Peter Turnley has been a preeminent photojournalist and documentary photographer for decades - and his output is nearly almost always in black & white, shot with digital rangefinders. His work is evocative, compelling, disturbing and jaw-droppingly arresting. And, like many other fine photojournalists, Leica's are his tool of choice. Craig Mod, on the other hand, came to his current digital Leica rangefinders after detours and thoughtful photographic experimentation with both mu-4/3 and compact Fujifilm bodies; his work is much harder to pigeonhole or classify, but his images tend to capture a sense of both place and time, and he doesn't just talk about his quest for dynamic range, he 'realizes' it in subtle but compelling visual ways in his photographs. Another of my favorite contemporary photographers, J.T. White, the transplanted Canadian who shoots largely in digital monochrome in his adopted city of Seoul, Korea, has created remarkable street images not only with Leicas, but also with Ricoh's, Olympuses, and various Fuji's; he somehow manages to achieve the same 'look' and 'feeling' no matter what camera he is using (and that includes his forays into iPhone-land). But then turn around and look at the work of Eugene Richards, one of the great living photojournalists, members of Magnum Photos, and like Peter Turnley, a long-term exponent of black & white photography. If you didn't know better, you might wrongly conclude that his images have some of that classic monochromatic Leica look to them - but in fact, much of his most brilliant work was shot with a handful of Olympus film SLR's.
I found the video occasionally amusing and interesting but Samuel Lin Taro's observations - on DSLR's and Leica's - made me roll my eyes a little, and his generalizations about DSLR's left me a little puzzled: apparently he started out with Canon DSLR's, then went through a Pentax phase, then a Ricoh phase, before using Leica's for awhile, and now singing the praises of large Nikons. Sure, they're all DSLR's, but for me there are far more differences between Pentaxes, Canons and Nikons than there are similarities. I think, at the end of the day, 'whatever floats your boat' is really what's important - whatever tool you use which allows you to consistently realize the best photographs, is all that matters. And, yeah, I'll admit that some of the characteristics of Fuji cameras remind me, in good ways, of my old Pentaxes. But, to be honest, some of the characteristics of my E-M1 and my GX9 do that, as well.
At the end of the day, it's all about the images. And how they affect (or don't) me.
But, that said, Samuel's photographic obsessions are definitely on the entertaining side - so my thanks to you for expanding my horizons, Andrew --- which this post has definitely done... and is continuing to do
My last DSLR before going mirrorless was the Pentax K7. Of course, I now own a D700 with a nifty fifty. It’s such a monster and only 12 MP but I really love the look of the images. It’s very clear that I can live with a 12 mp low end, given how I display my images. That’s probably why I own so many 12 mp cameras. Maybe someday the A7Siii will come intro my range.
- Location
- Seattle
- Name
- Andrew
Miguel, I think I may be sense a bit of world-weariness for the overt focus on gear over images in the video and/or stuff like it. I agree, too. Samuel sometimes spends too much time and money on gear, and talking about gear, however I think for the kind of people who choose to pursue YouTube revenue, the gear talk tends to be what draws in the most views. Which is kind of stupid - Sean Tucker is one of the few YouTubers who manages to avoid most all of the gear talk and still have lots of content and pretty good viewership. There's always an audience for the consumerist aspect though. It's what we've nearly all been conditioned to respond to, almost since the cradle.I haven't used a Leica for years - not since the ancient analog days when I was shooting Tri-x in whatever camera I could get my hands on, and one of them happened to be an ancient Leica that my father kindly loaned me which, to be honest, wasn't the photographic equal of the Pentaxes which later replaced it in my own arsenal. But I can help grinning when I read references either to how great Leica's (supposedly) are - or what camera or brand can be viewed, by some segment of photographic cognoscenti, as 'the next Leica' or (and this is a classic one) 'the poor man's Leica."
As far as I'm concerned, they are tools - and like any other fine tool, there are some fine photographers who use them. Two of my favorite photographers, period, use Leicas: Peter Turnley and Craig Mod. But they use them in entirely different ways. Peter Turnley has been a preeminent photojournalist and documentary photographer for decades - and his output is nearly almost always in black & white, shot with digital rangefinders. His work is evocative, compelling, disturbing and jaw-droppingly arresting. And, like many other fine photojournalists, Leica's are his tool of choice. Craig Mod, on the other hand, came to his current digital Leica rangefinders after detours and thoughtful photographic experimentation with both mu-4/3 and compact Fujifilm bodies; his work is much harder to pigeonhole or classify, but his images tend to capture a sense of both place and time, and he doesn't just talk about his quest for dynamic range, he 'realizes' it in subtle but compelling visual ways in his photographs. Another of my favorite contemporary photographers, J.T. White, the transplanted Canadian who shoots largely in digital monochrome in his adopted city of Seoul, Korea, has created remarkable street images not only with Leicas, but also with Ricoh's, Olympuses, and various Fuji's; he somehow manages to achieve the same 'look' and 'feeling' no matter what camera he is using (and that includes his forays into iPhone-land). But then turn around and look at the work of Eugene Richards, one of the great living photojournalists, members of Magnum Photos, and like Peter Turnley, a long-term exponent of black & white photography. If you didn't know better, you might wrongly conclude that his images have some of that classic monochromatic Leica look to them - but in fact, much of his most brilliant work was shot with a handful of Olympus film SLR's.
I found the video occasionally amusing and interesting but Samuel Lin Taro's observations - on DSLR's and Leica's - made me roll my eyes a little, and his generalizations about DSLR's left me a little puzzled: apparently he started out with Canon DSLR's, then went through a Pentax phase, then a Ricoh phase, before using Leica's for awhile, and now singing the praises of large Nikons. Sure, they're all DSLR's, but for me there are far more differences between Pentaxes, Canons and Nikons than there are similarities. I think, at the end of the day, 'whatever floats your boat' is really what's important - whatever tool you use which allows you to consistently realize the best photographs, is all that matters. And, yeah, I'll admit that some of the characteristics of Fuji cameras remind me, in good ways, of my old Pentaxes. But, to be honest, some of the characteristics of my E-M1 and my GX9 do that, as well.
At the end of the day, it's all about the images. And how they affect (or don't) me.
But, that said, Samuel's photographic obsessions are definitely on the entertaining side - so my thanks to you for expanding my horizons, Andrew --- which this post has definitely done... and is continuing to do
I wonder sometimes if youtubers feel the need to change brands just to have new content available.I haven't used a Leica for years - not since the ancient analog days when I was shooting Tri-x in whatever camera I could get my hands on, and one of them happened to be an ancient Leica that my father kindly loaned me which, to be honest, wasn't the photographic equal of the Pentaxes which later replaced it in my own arsenal. But I can help grinning when I read references either to how great Leica's (supposedly) are - or what camera or brand can be viewed, by some segment of photographic cognoscenti, as 'the next Leica' or (and this is a classic one) 'the poor man's Leica."
As far as I'm concerned, they are tools - and like any other fine tool, there are some fine photographers who use them. Two of my favorite photographers, period, use Leicas: Peter Turnley and Craig Mod. But they use them in entirely different ways. Peter Turnley has been a preeminent photojournalist and documentary photographer for decades - and his output is nearly almost always in black & white, shot with digital rangefinders. His work is evocative, compelling, disturbing and jaw-droppingly arresting. And, like many other fine photojournalists, Leica's are his tool of choice. Craig Mod, on the other hand, came to his current digital Leica rangefinders after detours and thoughtful photographic experimentation with both mu-4/3 and compact Fujifilm bodies; his work is much harder to pigeonhole or classify, but his images tend to capture a sense of both place and time, and he doesn't just talk about his quest for dynamic range, he 'realizes' it in subtle but compelling visual ways in his photographs. Another of my favorite contemporary photographers, J.T. White, the transplanted Canadian who shoots largely in digital monochrome in his adopted city of Seoul, Korea, has created remarkable street images not only with Leicas, but also with Ricoh's, Olympuses, and various Fuji's; he somehow manages to achieve the same 'look' and 'feeling' no matter what camera he is using (and that includes his forays into iPhone-land). But then turn around and look at the work of Eugene Richards, one of the great living photojournalists, members of Magnum Photos, and like Peter Turnley, a long-term exponent of black & white photography. If you didn't know better, you might wrongly conclude that his images have some of that classic monochromatic Leica look to them - but in fact, much of his most brilliant work was shot with a handful of Olympus film SLR's.
I found the video occasionally amusing and interesting but Samuel Lin Taro's observations - on DSLR's and Leica's - made me roll my eyes a little, and his generalizations about DSLR's left me a little puzzled: apparently he started out with Canon DSLR's, then went through a Pentax phase, then a Ricoh phase, before using Leica's for awhile, and now singing the praises of large Nikons. Sure, they're all DSLR's, but for me there are far more differences between Pentaxes, Canons and Nikons than there are similarities. I think, at the end of the day, 'whatever floats your boat' is really what's important - whatever tool you use which allows you to consistently realize the best photographs, is all that matters. And, yeah, I'll admit that some of the characteristics of Fuji cameras remind me, in good ways, of my old Pentaxes. But, to be honest, some of the characteristics of my E-M1 and my GX9 do that, as well.
At the end of the day, it's all about the images. And how they affect (or don't) me.
But, that said, Samuel's photographic obsessions are definitely on the entertaining side - so my thanks to you for expanding my horizons, Andrew --- which this post has definitely done... and is continuing to do
- Location
- Seattle
- Name
- Andrew
I definitely think that happens.
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