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Leica Is anybody else out there wanting an M10?

Adam Bonn

Top Veteran
Jan 13, 2016
104
Porto
It’s the cover glass on the sensor, not the sensor itself

If what’s said is true, then this glass has been updated
 

BrianS

Super Moderator
Apr 3, 2013
124
All very well getting a replaced sensor on an M9 but it'll just corrode again won't it?
No- the problem was the S8612 glass used originally requires a coating to keep moisture out. Due to the short flange distance, the coating over the S8612 was thin. Reformulated BG55 glass is used for the replacement CCD. It is resilient to moisture damage.

https://www.itos.de/en/schott-optical-filters/band-pass/s8612-bg39-bg55/

My M Monochrom sensor had to be replaced, but my M9 filter shows no corrosion at this point. The S8612 glass has better optical properties.
 

rayvonn

All-Pro
Jan 19, 2015
124
No- the problem was the S8612 glass used originally requires a coating to keep moisture out. Due to the short flange distance, the coating over the S8612 was thin. Reformulated BG55 glass is used for the replacement CCD. It is resilient to moisture damage.

https://www.itos.de/en/schott-optical-filters/band-pass/s8612-bg39-bg55/

My M Monochrom sensor had to be replaced, but my M9 filter shows no corrosion at this point. The S8612 glass has better optical properties.
Thanks Brian.
 

TraamisVOS

Hall of Famer
Nov 29, 2010
124
Melbourne, Australia
do the images from the older M cameras seem to have, I dunno....more 'character'?
I own the M8.2, M9-P, M240, and M10. I would agree that the M8 and M9 seems to have more character. I don't know exactly what it is, it could be the CCD sensor. Or alternatively, it could be that the CCD sensors aren't exactly 'perfect'. I don't know enough about camera sensor technology to know how to describe what I mean by this. It's just something I have noticed from long term use.

The M240 and M10 is an effort to modernise and push the M camera into the future with the CMOS sensors. The images from these sensors are closer to perfect but seem to be more clinical as a result.
 

TraamisVOS

Hall of Famer
Nov 29, 2010
124
Melbourne, Australia
One with the ZM 50 1.5 sonar
I have the Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 EF mount and I love the images I'm getting from it. I would love to get one for my Leicas but unfortunately the only options are the Sonnar f/1.4 and the Planar f/2. I really don't want to go with the Planar although I have heard that it is an excellent performer. That leaves the Sonnar, but I understand that it has focusing flaws. It comes out of the factory calibrated to be in focus at f/2 or f/2.8, and anything above or below you must compensate to focus.

What has been your experience with this lens? This photo you posted is beautiful.
 

rayvonn

All-Pro
Jan 19, 2015
124
Sonnar is trial and error in terms of the wide open focusing. In my experience it's not an issue though as you will get used to managing it through your own MF behaviour and the images it renders are unique.
 

TraamisVOS

Hall of Famer
Nov 29, 2010
124
Melbourne, Australia
Sonnar is trial and error in terms of the wide open focusing. In my experience it's not an issue though as you will get used to managing it through your own MF behaviour and the images it renders are unique.
I wish it was calibrated for f/1.4, it's always the hardest focusing when the lens is wide open. The smaller the f/stop, the easier it is to get things in focus.
 

BrianS

Super Moderator
Apr 3, 2013
124
Lesson in History: The Magic of the "Value for Money" Zeiss C-Sonnar 50mm F1.5 | THEME

Unique Blend of Compactness, Super Speed and Perfect Imperfections: 1930s Sonnar Lenses on the Leica M9 and M Monochrom | THEME

The C-Sonnar 50/1.5 takes some getting used to- but, it's the focus shift (spherical Aberration) that is responsible for its unique rendering.

C-Sonnar 50/1.5, Orange Filter, M Monochrom.

Mt Vernon, Camera Obscura
by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

And one with the 1934 5cm F2 Sonnar, modified to Leica Mount, wide-open.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
nikki_f2_1934_sonnar by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr
 

christilou

Legend
Jul 13, 2010
164
Sunny Frimley
I have the Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 EF mount and I love the images I'm getting from it. I would love to get one for my Leicas but unfortunately the only options are the Sonnar f/1.4 and the Planar f/2. I really don't want to go with the Planar although I have heard that it is an excellent performer. That leaves the Sonnar, but I understand that it has focusing flaws. It comes out of the factory calibrated to be in focus at f/2 or f/2.8, and anything above or below you must compensate to focus.

What has been your experience with this lens? This photo you posted is beautiful.
I went on a day in London with Matthew Osborne whilst he tutored three of us with a model and "finding the light". I had expressed an interest in the Sonnar and he kindly lent me his for the day.... which was perfectly calibrated. A few weeks later he offered to sell it to me and having used it and found it good in the focus department, I snapped it up! It still seems fine on the M10.
 

Mike G

All-Pro
Oct 7, 2016
124
West London
Christilou, May I ask about the VF of the M10, I read that it has been made “larger”, but nobody shows any detail, would it be suitable for a spectacles wearer? Thanks
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Christilou, May I ask about the VF of the M10, I read that it has been made “larger”, but nobody shows any detail, would it be suitable for a spectacles wearer? Thanks
I'm also wearing glasses - and I can say it's at least as good as the viewfinder on the M6 (0.72), and better than the one on the M262 I once tried alongside it.

M.
 

TraamisVOS

Hall of Famer
Nov 29, 2010
124
Melbourne, Australia
I went on a day in London with Matthew Osborne whilst he tutored three of us with a model and "finding the light". I had expressed an interest in the Sonnar and he kindly lent me his for the day.... which was perfectly calibrated. A few weeks later he offered to sell it to me and having used it and found it good in the focus department, I snapped it up! It still seems fine on the M10.
Which f/stop was it calibrated to, and were you mostly shooting at that calibrated f/stop?
 

TraamisVOS

Hall of Famer
Nov 29, 2010
124
Melbourne, Australia
Your photos look perfectly in focus but the focus shift is what I'm concerned about. I'll read the links you've provided, thanks!
 

Mike G

All-Pro
Oct 7, 2016
124
West London
Thanks Matt, but having never owned or used any Leica at all, I was really after details of the M10 VF such as eyepoint and can you see all of the VF view and the lens frames?
 

BrianS

Super Moderator
Apr 3, 2013
124
Your photos look perfectly in focus but the focus shift is what I'm concerned about. I'll read the links you've provided, thanks!
I use a simple technique- I know how a lens behaves wide-open and stopped down to F4. With the Sonnar, stopping down from F1.5 to F4 shifts the focus towards infinity by ~1". Just focus slightly behind the main point of focus. My C-Sonnar is perfect wide-open on the M Monochrom. The M9 has a slightly different calibration- it is perfect at F2. The M240 and M10 seem to agree with my M Monochrom, based on calibrating lenses for other people.
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Thanks Matt, but having never owned or used any Leica at all, I was really after details of the M10 VF such as eyepoint and can you see all of the VF view and the lens frames?
Sorry, Mike, should have been more explicit. I can see the 35mm frame lines okay, but can't see all the 28mm framelines without squinting; but I had word from someone with loads of experience that the latter is true for most people. The VF is fantastically big and bright though - the best optical view there is in my experience, and you can indeed always see what's going on outside of the frame. That's even true if you have troubles spotting all the framelines at once.

However, framing is - by nature - less than perfect unless you use LiveView, but that's counter-intuitive in many situations if you don't have the EVF on the camera or the camera on a tripod - holding the camera so that you can see the screen and focus at the same time isn't comfortable at all. I got used to working with the viewfinder extremely quickly - because the immediacy is just unsurpassable, and using the rangefinder is so nice and precise. Even so, it certainly isn't the most accurate way of framing. But since this is true for all RF cameras anyway, I don't mind (much) - though actually, Leica's frame lines are quite impressively reliable and I get the image I want most of the time. If in doubt, frame (slightly) loosely.

As for finder blockage, some lenses will do that. My Summicron and my Zeiss Biogon C don't even come close to obscuring part of the frame, and neither does the Elmarit-M 90mm (which is surprising because it's not a small lens). But with the Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 (that's not the latest lens but its predecessor - without ASPH designation), the lens is always filling the lower right corner - and if I use the hood (which I usually don't - but it's not necessary anyway), it becomes obstrusive. It takes some getting used to, but in practise has never prevented me from taking the shot I wanted. Another lens that blocks the lower right corner is the Voigtländer Ultron 35mm f/1.7 (a great lens for its price!), but again, in use, I hardly notice it.

All in all, yes, it's a bit archaic at first and takes some getting used to, but once you are, it's a wonderful way of framing and shooting; in fact, in some cases, I found it painful to have to go back: I shot a bit of documentary with the D5500 (which is a camera very well suited for such a task, it's small, fast and has great lenses available - like the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 Art ...) shortly after coming back from shooting the M10 in Scotland and found the D5500's pentamirror finder downright claustrophobic - I knew that the viewfinder was rather small and somewhat dark, but I hadn't noticed how bad it really was before. The D750's big, bright pentaprism is almost as nice as the M10 - but that camera is a lot bulkier. The Sony A7 II's EVF doesn't really compare - though it is nice and big as well, but it lacks the clarity and smoothness of optical finders. I must say that I think the Z7's finder came close enough, though - quite a feat ...

M.
 

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