Leica Jupiter-3 Plus, C-Sonnar, KMZ Jupiter-3 TAKE2!

[Brian]

This will be an ongoing project, to build some comparison images between 80+ years of Sonnar formula 5cm F1.5 lenses. This is of course due to the Lomography/Zenit introduction of the Jupiter-3+. This lens is the only 1-3-3 50mm F1.5 Sonnar produced in the 21st century. It is also the Best Jupiter-3 that I've ever seen, or made. I just proved that point to myself, tested against my very best Jupiter-3 created using Zeiss glass optics, a Jupiter-3 barrel with the spacing set for the Leica standard, all in a buttery-smooth KMZ Focus mount modified to focus to 0.75m. I have about 40 hours of time invested into that lens. Getting the spacing between the two triplets to focus across the full range took a lot of trial and error. All three lenses have UV filters on them. Light overcast sky, M9 set to +2/3 ev to account for snow in background.

First up, the Jupiter-3+

At F1.5,

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And F4,

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[Brian]

The C-Sonnar.

F1.5,

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Second at F1.5,

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And at F4,

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[Brian]

And the 1950 KMZ Jupiter-3, custom modified for the Leica standard by me.

At F1.5,

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And at F4,

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The serial number stamped into this lens shows the optics being manufactured in May 1945. It is equivalent to my Wartime Zeiss Sonnar, has perfect glass. The rear triplet is placed using a secondary shim (I added this) for focal length, then the optical cell is shimmed to provide accurate focus from 0.75m to infinity. The focus mount is modified to focus closer than the standard 0.9m.

 

[Brian]

I'll be doing some more comparisons with different Sonnar formula lenses, except of course with the Tanar 5cm f1.5. I don't have one, but I do have the others. I'm thinking a Nikkor 5cm f1.5, Canon 50/1.5, 1943 CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar T, and uncoated 1936 CZJ 5cm F1.5. Then make it back around to a 1956 KMZ, 1975 ZOMZ, and 1984 Valdai- all cherry picked over the last 12 years.

Of all of the vintage Sonnars- this 1950 KMZ Jupiter-3 with Zeiss optics has more work put into it. about 40 hours worth, cleaning, lubing, modifying the length of the barrel, transplanting the glass into it, getting the spacing correct, modifying the focus mount, shimming it... it's not for sale.

 

[asiafish]

I'll be doing some more comparisons with different Sonnar formula lenses, except of course with the Tanar 5cm f1.5. I don't have one, but I do have the others. I'm thinking a Nikkor 5cm f1.5, Canon 50/1.5, 1943 CZJ 5cm F1.5 Sonnar T, and uncoated 1936 CZJ 5cm F1.5. Then make it back around to a 1956 KMZ, 1975 ZOMZ, and 1984 Valdai- all cherry picked over the last 12 years.

Of all of the vintage Sonnars- this 1950 KMZ Jupiter-3 with Zeiss optics has more work put into it. about 40 hours worth, cleaning, lubing, modifying the length of the barrel, transplanting the glass into it, getting the spacing correct, modifying the focus mount, shimming it... it's not for sale.

So do you think the new lens is better than the modern C Sonnar? Better than the 1936 Zeiss? Better than your KMZ?

 

[Brian]

It is better machined and made of better material than all of the vintage Jupiter-3's and Zeiss LTM lenses. The C-Sonnar seems to have an edge for corner-to-corner sharpness, those larger diameter optics have to count for something. Much less difference than I expected. The 1950 KMZ looks to be a little warmer, single-coated optics maybe? For sharpness and pixel peeping, center sharpness is too close to call.

The KMZ has more field-curvature than the J-3+, but the C-Sonnar also seems to have more field-curvature than the J-3+. I will look at this more closely-

astig5 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

I love this graph. It's from an old book.

The rendering of the three lenses is really close. Sonnars.

 

[Brian]

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A quick test of the Jupiter-3+ at F1.5, hand-held and eye-balled for being perpendicular to the fence- so NOT a scientific test, just a quick indicator.

 

[Raid]

Can you imagine a J-8+ at $400?! It already is a sharp lens and with fewer complaints than the original J-3, so a new J8+ may "replace" the many new 50mm lenses ... maybe?

 

[Brian]

A new J-8+ at $400, I would go the extra money for the J-3+. A new J-8 at $300 with this build quality- that is possible, gets it into the Nikkor 5cm F2 price range.

 

[asiafish]

FedEX says my new Lomography-Zenit Jupiter 3+ will be delivered by the end of the day today. I have an upcoming business trip to Nashville, TN, I think I'll take it along.

 

[Brian]

I'm sure you will love it. The packaging is impressive, but I went straight for the lens to put onto the M9.

 

[asiafish]

Out for delivery. Since I have it going to my office, I will work late if it hasn't arrived by 5:00.

 

[asiafish]

Lens just delivered. Will look at it after work.

 

[dante]

Nice. I have both a C-Sonnar and a Sweeney-ized Jupiter-3 (which is quite good, probably as good as anything that ever rolled off the line). The new J-3+ looks more interesting than I thought. But it would be hard to displace the C-Sonnar as a modern-performing, well-thought-out lens.

But having recently tried out the C-Sonnar, the reworked Jupiter, the prewar Sonnars (f/2 and 1/1.5), the west German postwar Sonnars (both), both Nikkors (50/2 and 50/1.4), and the MS-Sonnetar (f/1.1), the old Jupiters are kind of like the Tri-X of Sonnars: fast, but not the fastest; sharp, but not the sharpest; and subject-isolating but without the best bokeh. They can't be beaten for what they cost (even after being reworked), but they are not leading any particular category of performance. The new one looks like it might be much higher on the "sharp" list, and I'm sure I'll eventually acquire one.

Brian, not to backseat-drive here, but are these EVF-focused?

Dante

 

[asiafish]

Nice. I have both a C-Sonnar and a Sweeney-ized Jupiter-3 (which is quite good, probably as good as anything that ever rolled off the line). The new J-3+ looks more interesting than I thought. But it would be hard to displace the C-Sonnar as a modern-performing, well-thought-out lens.

But having recently tried out the C-Sonnar, the reworked Jupiter, the prewar Sonnars (f/2 and 1/1.5), the west German postwar Sonnars (both), both Nikkors (50/2 and 50/1.4), and the MS-Sonnetar (f/1.1), the old Jupiters are kind of like the Tri-X of Sonnars: fast, but not the fastest; sharp, but not the sharpest; and subject-isolating but without the best bokeh. They can't be beaten for what they cost (even after being reworked), but they are not leading any particular category of performance. The new one looks like it might be much higher on the "sharp" list, and I'm sure I'll eventually acquire one.

Brian, not to backseat-drive here, but are these EVF-focused?

Dante

Brian's shots (and mine) are all on M9 (M-E) and M Monochrom (CCD). There is no EVF capability.

I had a C Sonnar and have one each of Brian's modified Jupiter 3 (1963 Zomz), Jupiter 8 (late KMZ export), CZJ f/1.5 Sonnar (1937 uncoated) and CZJ f/2 Sonnar T (1943 coated).

Of the f/1.5 lenses the 1937 has the best bokeh (very, very close here) and lower contrast, while the Jupiter 3 is sharper, almost as sharp as the C Sonnar (which is why I sold the C Sonnar). The f/2 lenses have a different look, with the Jupiter 8 sharper than the Sonnar, but probably because my example is a better one.

So far, the new Jupiter 3+ seems to be better than either of the old f/1.5s. It is sharper than the old Jupiter 3, appears to have similar bokeh quality to my other two and higher contrast. It also has better control over focus shift and is more flare-resistant. Built-quality, however, is vastly better on the new Jupiter 3+, which will likely become my most-used Sonnar.

 

[Brian]

I have the M9, M Monochrom, and M8. All are slightly different with respect to optimizing the focus- and none have EVF. This is the only Jupiter-3 that I have not had to shim for best focus on a Leica. I have also had to fine-tune the ZK 5cm F1.5 Sonnar and two wartime Sonnar 5cm F1.5's. The pre-war custom converted lenses- I go for 0.01mm accuracy.