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News Leica mirrorless camera
- Thread starter serhan
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I wish my soap had a grip.
krugorg
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Despite my earlier naysayings, I'm beginning to be a little excited by this new camera. I just hope that it has SOMETHING apart from a red dot to qualitatively differentiate itself from the competition. Fuji, Olympus and Sony have three or four generations of head start in the mirrorless game. Let's see what Leica can do with their first entry.
Rumors were saying it will have a Sony sensor. Even if it is not Sony, it is high chance that it will be CMOS sensor. Even Leica M / medium format cameras are now using CMOS sensors ...
key word is 'now'. i think that anyone who wants to 'differentiate' themselves will ccd. you just cant say the m8 and 9 dont have a different 'look' than the cmos competition. im NOT saying better, im saying different. i think when technology gets you to the point we're at now, where we're getting IQ at iso's unimagineable just 3 years ago, there comes a need to distinguish your end-result 'look' from the sony crowd. what better way...
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Frankly, I don't get some of the thinking floated in this thread. If I was Leica, I'd look at the options and choose an obvious route. Leica has helped develop (and lend their name) to three amazing lenses for m4/3: the 25mm f1.4, the 42.5mm f1.2 and lastly the soon-to-be-available 15mm f1.7 (which I hope will live up to the name). What I'd do is use a m4/3 sensor (the best one available), put it into a no-frills body, add only the necessary controls on the outside (i.e. a shutter speed dial and an exposure compensation dial) and cook up a camera that's as fast and straightforward to use as possible. Now THAT'd be something. I'd also redesign the 25mm f1.4 to include an aperture ring - and then offer the whole kit for a neat $4000 (the body and all three lenses in a consistent design and unified handling experience). Not using their partnership with Panasonic would be foolish in my opinion.
I agree that something like this really needs a VF - a good one, preferably an amazing EVF to stay in the game. Given the consistency of the leaked images as to its absence, I doubt that will happen, which would really be a shame. But there *is* a usable EVF available, so I doubt they'll focus on that (no pun intended, alas). I also think that what we've seen of the body design doesn't bode too well as to what this camera will actually be.
I don't care about CCD/CMOS - if they do something deserving of the Leica name, and that starts with handling and speed, not the innards.
M.
I agree that something like this really needs a VF - a good one, preferably an amazing EVF to stay in the game. Given the consistency of the leaked images as to its absence, I doubt that will happen, which would really be a shame. But there *is* a usable EVF available, so I doubt they'll focus on that (no pun intended, alas). I also think that what we've seen of the body design doesn't bode too well as to what this camera will actually be.
I don't care about CCD/CMOS - if they do something deserving of the Leica name, and that starts with handling and speed, not the innards.
M.
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Never, ever gonna happen. Leica shied away from the 4/3 route after the much-unloved Digilux 3 (which had a very tough act to follow in the Digilux 2) and never did more than lend their expertise and name to the m4/3 lenses produced by Panasonic. It's a system that holds no direct interest for them. As Stefan Daniel said "Should we go for a micro 4/3-sensor camera? No, because we wanted an even larger sensor that provided a 3:2 aspect ratio that was more in keeping with the Leica tradition." With the X and T ranges they are chasing market share in the mass (APS-C) market, leaving the full-frame M for the aspiring amateur and professional and the "medium format" S for the pros. m4/3 does not fit in the strategy.
Luckypenguin
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I can understand why there wouldn't be a Leica branded Micro 4/3 body and I don't think that it has a lot to do with the format size. In Micro 4/3 Leica would never be more than equal with Panasonic as a body supplier yet would still be charging Leica prices. Within their own system they are the clear No. 1 (and only!) without any internal competition.
Lightmancer
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I don't think that applies - that's exactly the same scenario they have with the D-Lux series now. The D-Lux is a Panasonic with better bundled software, a different bodyshell, the ability to add an external grip, a longer warranty and a better residual value. People pay a premium for the red dot with less of an excuse.
I have had both Panasonic and Leica versions of Digilux and D-Lux bodies and can tell you here and now that the differences listed above are the only differences - the oft-speculated "special tweaks" that Leica is rumoured to do to the jpeg engine are unproven at best and wishful thinking at worst.
The Leica reasoning for not going down the m4/3 route is as Stefan Daniel said.
Luckypenguin
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While it will cost more to setup, I suspect they'll sell more cameras and lenses and/or be able to charge a higher premium with a bespoke system than by badge engineering Panasonics or making their own Micro 4/3 camera/s.
Lightmancer
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True dat...
Although bear in mind that the R series (after the original Leicaflexes) were basically Minoltas. Early digitals were Fujis, some of the R lenses were made by Sigma... they have a long and honourable tradition of "repurposing" and charging as much as the market will bear
Although bear in mind that the R series (after the original Leicaflexes) were basically Minoltas. Early digitals were Fujis, some of the R lenses were made by Sigma... they have a long and honourable tradition of "repurposing" and charging as much as the market will bear
Luckypenguin
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More power to their elbows
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I understand the insights given in Leica's policy, but even so, I'd love to have something Leica-like in handling with the advantages of size and speed of a m4/3. If Leica doesn't do it, maybe someone else will - both Olympus and Panasonic certainly could, and since the standard is open, someone entirley different actually might. Something very similar has happened already, really - because in a nutshell, the Fuji X100 is what the Leica X1 should have been; heck, had it been a Leica, people would have queued up to pay twice or three times the price the X100 was offered at. Still would, probably ...
It actually could happen again quite easily, but it would be even more of a shame, especially since other makers have managed to get there already. Take Olympus: They revived two of their own big successes in a very shrewd way, and it turned out amazingly well (if not entirely ideally - the only thing missing from the PEN series is the built-in viewfinder without inflating body size too much). I personally love both my little battered PM1 and my capable new M10 because they are not only highly functional cameras but also wonderful interpretations of a tried and trusted gestalt. Now, imagine someone like Leica with such a venerable tradition at their hands *not* doing it ... How can you miss out on an opportunity like that?
One could argue that they already do it to the fullest with the M - and that would be at least partially correct. But it's also true that they did expand their business "downwards" (which is actually an unfair slander - all their sources of technology provide very good products!). With someone like Panasonic as their existing partners, it would be only natural to exploit the opportunities. Just think about it - somthing like a GX7 (with a honed feature set - to appease internal policy makers at Solms) in a Leica made body with Leica controls, look and feel!? I'd be game, and I'd happily pay the premium. If Fujifilm can do something almost like a Leica for $1200 or so, why can't Leica do a m4/3 body for $2400? They'd be bound to sell them quite well - at that price point, and with the kind of lenses that are available, such an option should be really, really appealing not only for Leica buffs, but for more regular photographers, especially enthusiasts.
M.
It actually could happen again quite easily, but it would be even more of a shame, especially since other makers have managed to get there already. Take Olympus: They revived two of their own big successes in a very shrewd way, and it turned out amazingly well (if not entirely ideally - the only thing missing from the PEN series is the built-in viewfinder without inflating body size too much). I personally love both my little battered PM1 and my capable new M10 because they are not only highly functional cameras but also wonderful interpretations of a tried and trusted gestalt. Now, imagine someone like Leica with such a venerable tradition at their hands *not* doing it ... How can you miss out on an opportunity like that?
One could argue that they already do it to the fullest with the M - and that would be at least partially correct. But it's also true that they did expand their business "downwards" (which is actually an unfair slander - all their sources of technology provide very good products!). With someone like Panasonic as their existing partners, it would be only natural to exploit the opportunities. Just think about it - somthing like a GX7 (with a honed feature set - to appease internal policy makers at Solms) in a Leica made body with Leica controls, look and feel!? I'd be game, and I'd happily pay the premium. If Fujifilm can do something almost like a Leica for $1200 or so, why can't Leica do a m4/3 body for $2400? They'd be bound to sell them quite well - at that price point, and with the kind of lenses that are available, such an option should be really, really appealing not only for Leica buffs, but for more regular photographers, especially enthusiasts.
M.
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Spot on
Now if Olympus could figure out a way to make the aperture ring on the 15mm f/1.7 work on release on both the OM-D and PEN bodies ... or create a PEN with a EVF (I'd even forgo the tilting option if it were small *and* good enough) ... The first wish isn't that unrealistic, fortunately - maybe with a little wait.M.
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Sometimes I realise that I haven't been into digital photography long enough - just found out about the Digilux 3. I haven't read any reviews yet, but to my eye (only the eye, mind), that's pretty much the route and camera that Leica should try to revive - or isn't it?
M.
M.
One day to the announcement and here it is:
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/real-world-images-of-the-new-leica-t-and-first-lenses
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/real-world-images-of-the-new-leica-t-and-first-lenses
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