News Leica mirrorless camera

krugorg

All-Pro
Location
Minnesota USA
Real Name
Kyle Krug
:026: I still think that Ricoh/Pentax needs to build a GXR Mk. II with updated 16 or 24 mpx sensor, new mount, EVF (at least as an option) and based on the GR interface. Bonus points for integrated EVF, tilt screen and SR (IBIS). I will kick my FF stuff to the curb if this happens!
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Location
Not too far from Philly
Real Name
you should be able to figure it out...
:026: I still think that Ricoh/Pentax needs to build a GXR Mk. II with updated 16 or 24 mpx sensor, new mount, EVF (at least as an option) and based on the GR interface. Bonus points for integrated EVF, tilt screen and SR (IBIS). I will kick my FF stuff to the curb if this happens!

The thing about the GXR is it had a different sensor in every lens module, so it's silly to talk about a NEW GXR with a specific sensor, when it would by definition have a few. One in particular for a new M mount module, but probably up to date (temporarily) APS sensors for a couple of prime focal lengths and maybe one standard zoom, maybe something in a 1" sensor this time, and a tiny 1/2.3" for the super-zoom module. who knows, maybe a full frame module or two also.

But that's if it happened. I find it highly unlikely that Ricoh would discontinue the first gen GXR and let the line more or less die if it had ANY plans to bring back a second one. Maybe it'll be reborn in 20 years like the Olympus EP1 was an update of the classic Pen or like the Df is supposed to be an update of a long dead film SLR, but of course those are totally and completely different cameras. The greatest strength and the biggest weakness of the GXR were the same thing - the whole concept of a "lens module". Great to match lens to sensor so specifically - made some serious magic with the 28 and 50mm modules IMHO. But when your lenses are as short term an investment as the body(s) by virtue of being one unit, you have to replace EVERYTHING to replace ANYTHING.

I don't expect to see it's like again. As with most niche products, it's devotees were few but rabid - hard to make money on rabid without numbers...

-Ray
 
I agree Ray.. The gxr lensor experiment has most likely ended. The next Ricoh/Pentax will most likely be a normal csc type design. I don't think their sales were very good until the a12 module showed up. Personally, it was only after that time, I finally looked at Ricoh seriously. The pricing for the lensor setup was a pretty big issue. The other being the digital path to the rest of the camera body. The write delay to the sd card is most likely due to data bus speed between the lensor and the camera body. If they had been successful w/ the gxr lineup, I would have suspected that they would have done a next gen body to address the performance issues. As I remember they have a CPU in both the body and the lensor unit. They need digital support in the body for the optional evf. So improvements for performance or better evf would have most likely required a new body.

Gary
 

krugorg

All-Pro
Location
Minnesota USA
Real Name
Kyle Krug
The thing about the GXR is it had a different sensor in every lens module, so it's silly to talk about a NEW GXR with a specific sensor

Sorry, should have been more specific when I said "new mount" ... I definitely suggest ditching the lens/sensor module idea. I guess it is more of a K-02 than GXR.


I would be good to reign this discussion back in to represent the OP's thread title.

You are right, sir. Sorry for the tangent! :)
 

rbelyell

All-Pro
Location
NY Mtns
the thing about a 'new' gxr is what do you really get? the point of the comparison to the new T is that, in terms of IQ and feature set, youre not really gaining anything. the T has 4 extra megapixels, and if that equals any noticeable 'improvement', that would be diluted by the fact that it doesnt have the M lens enhancing micro lens array of the gxr. everyone has wanted a 'new' gxr, but the real-life reasons for one elude me.

now if they changed the mode of focusing, or substituted a whole different sensor, like a ccd, ok, i get it. but for most folks who didnt have the 'user' issues i did, whats the burning need for improvement?
 

Andrewteee

All-Pro
You are right, sir. Sorry for the tangent! :)

No tangent. No camera is an island. The Leica T is new and offers an m-mount adapter, which the GXR Mount does too (both are APS). Comparisons are apt. If the GXR Mount still reigns above Leica's own APS system camera in overall IQ (as far as we know per Sean Reid) then that implies the level of detail that Ricoh puts into its products. And what the potential could be.

Right now only Ricoh/Pentax and Nikon lack mirrorless system cameras in APS format. Not that that is all that important. But it says to me that Ricoh/Pentax will release one someday. Or maybe not. Fact is, small sensor camera sales are down, DSLR sales are flat and mirrorless sales are slightly up, with an emphasis on on fixed-lens mirrorless cameras (a la Ricoh GR). Will Pentax continue to invest in the DSLR range or will Ricoh/Pentax come up with an APS/FF mirrorless system camera (or both)? Or will they focus on fixed-lens mirrorless?

Leica has theirs now, Sony is going all-out FF mirrorless, Fuji is hot, Canon is testing the waters, Nikon is confused... where does that leave Ricoh/Pentax? We have the GR, an amazing camera... and what else?
 

biglouis

Veteran
I posted my views on the Leica T at another forum yesterday but I reproduce them here.

"I must admit as I was falling asleep last night I was remembering that there would an announcement today.

I had not spent any time speculating about the new Leica or indeed reading any of the rumours.

I will say that deep in my little black heart as I drifted off in my slumbers I wondered if Leica was going to confound us all and launch a mirrorless m43rds camera. I have always found it a bit insulting that Leica offer branded m43rds lenses, via Panasonic but at the same time make decidedly 'sniffy' statements about the m43rds format. A bit like, "well, we'll take your money if you insist but you are a fool to be spending it on m43rds kit!".

When I finally decided to leave the Leica world nearly two years ago, I could not bring myself to immediately sell my PanaLieca 25/1.4 Summilux or my PanaLeica 45/2.8 Elmarit (which I used on a GH-2). I was more emotionally joined to those lenses than (say) my Lux 35/1.4 ASPH or the WATE. The reason was good old fashioned 'value for money'. Their performance was way beyond the price tag. In fact, embarrassingly close as near as dammit as any Leica lens you could buy. I hung on to them for over a year using them occasionally - and not enough to really justify keeping them in the end.

The PanaLeica 45/2.8 was and of course for those who continue to use it is an exceptional lens. Amazingly sharp stopped down and beautifully dreamy - in the best Leica lens mould - when opened up to f3.2. I won a national photography competition with that lens (on a GF1!) as well as having two of the photographs taken with it used in print. The PanaLeica Lux 25, which is designed to 'ape' the 50 Lux proved to be an exceptionally sharp lens in use. I could bore you with the exemplars but even open at f1.4 it was sharp from edge to edge - not something always evident in the Leica lens range.

Anyway, my musings about the 'T' possibly being a m43rds camera did have me nostalgically contemplating the excuse to reaquire these two fantastic lenses.and rebuild a m43rds system.

But then, the announcement of the T.

Ultimately, I agree with Leica, the m43rds format is a bit of technical dead end. It can never really be expanded in terms of the size of the sensor (it is by definition the size it is) and it appears to be proving difficult to compete on megapixels (not that I am saying that is a necessary thing) and maintain image quality. Sadly, I think it is a format which like minidisc and betamax will die out.

So, why am I musing at all?

I am mainly a 35mm urban landscape shooter - so the whole 35mm-Leica-shtick is one that appeals to me. I long ago dismissed the FF vs APS-C argument as largely academic given the quality of modern lens design and the reliance of the digital world on post-processing. Who cares whether your sensor is arbitrarily bigger, smaller or the same as a legacy system like film? So, the key issue for me with any camera is the IQ not the sensor size.

I am a bit surprised that the lens manufacturer is not Panasonic. I am wondering if by any chance it may actually be Sigma? The only reason I say that is that the performance of the lenses on my Sigma DP2 and 3 Merrills is nothing short of ourstanding - especially wide open. Some are saying possibly Sony but I can't see that being the case if their 'brand' of choice is Carl Zeiss. Intriguing. Of course if it turns out they are Panasonic lenses then I can attest to the fact they will be excellent lenses if their m43rds lenses are anything to go by.

I do miss the simplicity of M shooting.

I currently have a Sony A7, Ricoh GR and two Sigma DP Merrills. I would say that out of all four cameras the Ricoh GR gives me the most 'pure' photographic pleasure. It is such a beautifully made and realised photographic instrument - when I shoot with it I put it on TAV mode and I am a lot closer to the simplicity of the a Leica DRF and 35 lens than say the A7 with the excellent Carl Zeiss 35/2.8. However, I do concede that the A7 delivers higher IQ and in fact on pure IQ the Sigma's outdo both.

So, bottom line a cautious 'well done' from me for Leica and the first product I have seen since I departed (and since the M's and X's arrived) that I could actually desire to own.

For purely photographic reasons, of course, you understand.

LouisB"
 

Duane Pandorf

Top Veteran
Location
Western NC
.....
Leica has theirs now, Sony is going all-out FF mirrorless, Fuji is hot, Canon is testing the waters, Nikon is confused... where does that leave Ricoh/Pentax? We have the GR, an amazing camera... and what else?

Actually Leica's M Mount system and now new T have been mirror less since, what, 1953? The new T with M adapter and external EVF would not be that much different to me as compared to the GXR-M I shot for a year.

Its the the glass that moved me to "upgrade".
 

rbelyell

All-Pro
Location
NY Mtns
oh truth be told duane its not just the glass that caused an upgrade from the gxr to a digi M! its gotta be the ccd sensor, rf focusing and close to (m8) or actual (m9) FF, plus menu/operational simplicity. those are BIG upgrades, imo. problem here is that the 'new' T has none of those things...well maybe operational simplicity. but 2 grand is a lot to pay for simple.
 

retow

All-Pro
In 2006 and 2009 it "felt" ok to pay the steep premiums for the Leica M8 and M9 and X1 respectively as they set new bars for IQ for compact digital cameras. But in 2014 there are a number of offerings that produce files that have image quality every bit the equal of the Leica T (with its proven Sony Nex 3 sensor) and in many cases better than the Leica T. Granted they aren't made from a solid lump of aluminum and don't carry a red dot and a Samsung Galaxy user interface. But some have solid knobs, wheels, aperture rings, superior integrated EVF of newest generation, and excellent and affordable native lenses. I don`t doubt that the native T lenses will be excellent performers. But so are the Fuji 56, 23, 14. As a comparison the T 23mm f2.0 is priced twice as high as the superbly build and optically excellent Fuji 23mm f1.4. The novelty of the T is the fit and finishing of materials and the UI, a very pretty run of the mill. But the sleek looks and electronic gadgetry UI alone won`t be sufficient to open my wallet.
 
Wow, Leica just made the entire Fuji line look old. The T sure is purty and is especially fetching in yellow. It's not for me though, unless they have a 50% off Groupon.
 

Armanius

Bring Jack back!
Location
Houston, Texas
Real Name
Jack
Can't be NEX3 sensor. That was a 14 mp sensor, albeit a pretty good one for its time. I think the NEX moved to the 16mp sensor starting with the NEX5n or something like that.

I'm still lusting after a XT1, EM1, Nocticron, Fuji 56/1.2, and Zeiss 55/1.8. So I'll probably blow my Leica discretionary budget on those things instead!
 

Ripleysbaby

supernatural anesthetist
Location
Cumbria UK
Real Name
Garry
I've read all the reviews, watched all the videos. I Like it.
Did I hear Steve Huff say you can't turn off image review after you have taken a shot ? Nikon V1 flaw repeated.
 

BBW

Legend
Location
betwixt and between
Real Name
BB
The more I read...and see, the more I like it. I'm interested in the wider angle zoom that they're planning... Will I ever buy one? Only time, more info, my bank account balance and trying one out will tell...but it won't be happening for quite a while, unless I have a large "windfall".

I'm still making my way through David Farkas's review on Red Dot Forum...which I found my way to via L Camera (where I read your musings Big Louis!:thumb up: ): http://www.reddotforum.com/content.php/343-Leica-T-%28Typ-701%29-Review
 

SnapDawg

Rorschach Test Pilot
Location
Canary Islands
Real Name
Ken
Can't be NEX3 sensor. That was a 14 mp sensor, albeit a pretty good one for its time. I think the NEX moved to the 16mp sensor starting with the NEX5n or something like that.

I'm still lusting after a XT1, EM1, Nocticron, Fuji 56/1.2, and Zeiss 55/1.8. So I'll probably blow my Leica discretionary budget on those things instead!

I heard it's the 16MP sensor from the NEX-3n which is basically the same as that in the NEX-5n (no PDAF pickers) and ... knows how many other cameras. The 5n came out in autumn 2011, quite a while ago in digital times but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad sensor. My 5n performed beautifully in low-light.
 

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