News / Rumor Leica mirrorless camera

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
The Fuji line looked old from Day 1 - that was part of the point. Fortunately, only PART of the point...

-Ray
There's a fine line between retro/cool and old, and Leica just moved the goalposts on their imitators. Thankfully, the look is just part of the point of the Fujis, so their owners and admirers can continue to shoot happily. But maybe we're nearing the end of the retro fashion era and surprisingly Leica is leading the way. The NEX 7 and various Samsungs and others have come close, but to me their designs say, "device" or "consumer electronics product." Others, like the Nikon A, Ricoh GR, and the Nikon V1/V3 (let's skip the V2, it was a camel) are also very good, but the A and GR are almost too utilitarian to be iconic.

The T, because of its materials, construction, and attention to detail, says "machine" and I suspect that in five and ten years it will continue to look fresh while the others will begin to feel out of fashion, old but not yet retro/cool.

The Sony 16mp APS-C sensor is the Cosworth DFV of camera sensors, or maybe that should be the town bike i.e. everybody's ridden it :)
Love the Sony16 in my Pentax K-01 and K-5. How good is it? The newer K-3 offers 50% more megapickles but no real improvements otherwise. If anything, the 24MP is starting to make my computer feel slow, and I'd gladly settle for the K-5 sensor paired with the K-3 AF.
 

Luckypenguin

Hall of Famer
Dec 24, 2010
Brisbane, Australia
Nic
There's no doubt that technically it is a very good sensor and one that has seen service in many different cameras, hence my Cosworth DFV reference (the ultimate customer racing engine that kept winning over two decades). However my favourite Sony APS-C sensor is the 12mp that was used in the Ricoh GXR, Fuji X100, Leica X1 and Nikon D90 (and probably more besides, which being an earlier model than the 16mp makes it the Coventry Climax FPF of camera sensors).
 

krugorg

All-Pro
Sep 26, 2011
Minnesota USA
Kyle Krug
There's a fine line between retro/cool and old, and Leica just moved the goalposts on their imitators. Thankfully, the look is just part of the point of the Fujis, so their owners and admirers can continue to shoot happily. But maybe we're nearing the end of the retro fashion era and surprisingly Leica is leading the way. The NEX 7 and various Samsungs and others have come close, but to me their designs say, "device" or "consumer electronics product." Others, like the Nikon A, Ricoh GR, and the Nikon V1/V3 (let's skip the V2, it was a camel) are also very good, but the A and GR are almost too utilitarian to be iconic.

The T, because of its materials, construction, and attention to detail, says "machine" and I suspect that in five and ten years it will continue to look fresh while the others will begin to feel out of fashion, old but not yet retro/cool.
The design is cool I think and kudos to them for no just flogging the retro thing. I just don't believe the user interface (software), though, is going to look or feel fresh in 5 years let alone 10. Electronics and software design is moving way too fast (and the T won't feel snappy in 2 years compared to the competition). I don't think "classic" works in software. Investing that kind of dough in a 2 year old 16 mpx APS-C sensor.... how will the latest and greatest APS-C sensor perform in 5 years? What is display technology going to be like in 5 years?

Even if some photographic enthusiasts embrace the T, it seems like unfortunate timing for Leica given the FF push and existing and very good APS-C products. I still think it will probably sell well as a fashion product (and with good margins most likely).
 

BruPri

Top Veteran
May 11, 2011
Seattle, Washington USA
Bruce J. Pritchard
There's no doubt that technically it is a very good sensor and one that has seen service in many different cameras, hence my Cosworth DFV reference (the ultimate customer racing engine that kept winning over two decades). However my favourite Sony APS-C sensor is the 12mp that was used in the Ricoh GXR, Fuji X100, Leica X1 and Nikon D90 (and probably more besides, which being an earlier model than the 16mp makes it the Coventry Climax FPF of camera sensors).
I agree, and the main reason I sought out a nice X1, the second I've owned. The X2 was capable but the X1 has a much more pleasant rendering and color.
 

Biro

Hall of Famer
Aug 7, 2011
Jersey Shore
Steve
Love the Sony16 in my Pentax K-01 and K-5. How good is it? The newer K-3 offers 50% more megapickles but no real improvements otherwise. If anything, the 24MP is starting to make my computer feel slow, and I'd gladly settle for the K-5 sensor paired with the K-3 AF.
From your lips to God's ears. I was going to replace or augment my K-5 with a K-3 recently (like you, I was drawn to the autofocus improvements). But, after reading a few of your posts about the dubious benefits of 24mp files, I've decided to hold off. I may pick up a K-5IIs on closeout or perhaps wait to see if Ricoh, in its infinite wisdom, might introduce a 16mp K-3 alike. What an incredible replacement to the K-50 that would make, right?
 

biglouis

Veteran
Aug 4, 2013
Maybe. I am a Leicaholic in recovery.

The system I am building around Sony's A series with Carl Zeiss lenses seems to be quite good for the price.

And of course it is full frame and able to accept any lenses, including Leica lenses.

LouisB
OK, I totally eat my words. I admit I am a photographic hypocrite. I definitely want a T and at least the 23mm lens. I've put my name down for one in black but I'll have to see if I can actually afford it when offered.

Well done Leica.

LouisB
 

Archiver

Top Veteran
Jul 11, 2010
Melbourne, Australia
However my favourite Sony APS-C sensor is the 12mp that was used in the Ricoh GXR, Fuji X100, Leica X1 and Nikon D90 (and probably more besides, which being an earlier model than the 16mp makes it the Coventry Climax FPF of camera sensors).
I must agree with you about the 12mp Sony sensor that graces the GXR and X100. They have colour signatures that are unlike those of newer cameras, and I quite prefer it, in many ways. Mind you, I was not so fond of the way that Leica handled that sensor with the X1. Something was weird about the colour signature and I prefer that of the GXR and X100.

I'm quite curious about how the new T handles the 16mp sensor, though.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
I must agree with you about the 12mp Sony sensor that graces the GXR and X100. They have colour signatures that are unlike those of newer cameras, and I quite prefer it, in many ways. Mind you, I was not so fond of the way that Leica handled that sensor with the X1. Something was weird about the colour signature and I prefer that of the GXR and X100.

I'm quite curious about how the new T handles the 16mp sensor, though.
I really liked that sensor as well, although the new ones are about a stop better at high ISO and probably in DR as well. But in terms of color signature, the GXR and X100 couldn't have been much more different from one another. So I don't know how much of that was the sensor and how much was what each manufacturer used it for.

-Ray
 

Duane Pandorf

Top Veteran
Apr 25, 2011
Western NC
No focus peaking? Strange for a camera touting use with M lenses.
I just finished reading David Farkas's review: http://www.reddotforum.com/content.php/343-Leica-T-(Typ-701)-Review

"Notably, one of these missing features is focus peaking. While this technically is possible, Maike didn’t feel that it could be done well, and therefore was omitted."

"Originally Posted by Unregistered
David - I find this statement curious: 'Notably, one of these missing features is focus peaking. While this technically is possible, Maike didn’t feel that it could be done well, and therefore was omitted.' Any insight into this? Allen


Maike and her team wanted to create a seamless, easy and pleasant user experience. Anything that didn't serve this end wasn't going into the final product as it could undermine all the other positive aspects. Whether the focal peaking was laggy or inaccurate or just not stable remains to be seen. The bottom line is that there was a decision to omit if it didn't measure up the the rest of the experience, and ultimately, I had no problems whatsoever living without it when using M and R lenses. The high-res viewing made focusing easy and accurate, even wide-open with a 180mm f/2.8."
 

rbelyell

All-Pro
May 14, 2013
NY Mtns
anyone wanting to critically use m lenses needs a better 'seamless' way to focus than magnification,. and how is needing to single touch out of your composition to magnify/focus then single touch back to recompose 'seamless'?! i'll tell ya how: it aint!
 

BruPri

Top Veteran
May 11, 2011
Seattle, Washington USA
Bruce J. Pritchard
Now, wouldn't it be slick if they could design a manual focus display mode that would emulate an M9? How hard could it be to modify a focus peaking to technology (which unfortunately Leica probably won't pay to license) and just tweak the UI to display double image, split circle, what have you.
 

flash

Veteran
May 6, 2011
Gordon
I think it would be vry difficult. Focus peaking isn't using two images, like a rangefinder, just contrast detect. And the current M has focus peaking.

Gordon
 

BruPri

Top Veteran
May 11, 2011
Seattle, Washington USA
Bruce J. Pritchard
I think it would be vry difficult. Focus peaking isn't using two images, like a rangefinder, just contrast detect. And the current M has focus peaking.

Gordon
The idea is that if they employed focus peaking, which would be perfectly serviceable, perhaps the preferred method of using manual lenses, to give a nod to the M focusing experience, one might be given the option of all three, peaking, split circle or aligning two images. What I was alluding to is some software genius somewhere should be able to take the focus peaking engine and develop video rendering software to emulate the various familiar methods of manual focusing. I would much prefer a manufacturer to work on that than all the other gimmicky picture effects and whatnot.
 

rbelyell

All-Pro
May 14, 2013
NY Mtns
is somehow the fact that this focusing method is here and employed by fuji eluding folks here? software genius not necessary...
 

Duane Pandorf

Top Veteran
Apr 25, 2011
Western NC
is somehow the fact that this focusing method is here and employed by fuji eluding folks here? software genius not necessary...
I think you failed to grasp what David said in his review pertaining to the development team not including "stuff" that's not needed or might get in the way. The T is designed to use AF Leica designed lenses. They just happened to make an adapter for those that would like to use their FF M or R lenses (with the caveat "at your own risk").

Yes, I'm sure they could have included the focus peaking option but then they might sell few AF lenses.

Whereas, the Asian companies want to ensure they include the kitchen sink, 5 extra buttons, and a menu tree that requires a masters degree to figure out how to use.
 
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