Advice Wanted Lens haze

[Coksic]

Does anybody have experience with lens haze? The problem that I have is that the haze is in the cemented doublet (between two elements). I'm thinking, de-cementing would be one of the options / if not the only one, other than buying a new lens, or at least a new lens element!

 

[Brian]

What lens has the problem?

I've seen cemented pairs separate, even oil seep into them. "Haze" usually forms only on the air/glass surface. Usually from moisture, or from lubricants outgassing. I've seen it from plastic components outgassing.

If you can out some pictures up, would help.

 

[Coksic]

What lens has the problem?

I've seen cemented pairs separate, even oil seep into them. "Haze" usually forms only on the air/glass surface. Usually from moisture, or from lubricants outgassing. I've seen it from plastic components outgassing.

If you can out some pictures up, would help.

It's a Nikkor AF 20mm f2.8D
Back doublet element!

I'm pretty convinced this is on the inside. I wish I'm wrong! I have tried cleaning with alcohol, peroxide.. Nothing happens!
Marks and scratches are not as bad as they appear on this image (attachment)!

 

[Coksic]

Examples - no postprocessing!

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Second image postprocessed in Lr.

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Shooting into Sun is the biggest problem. It's very difficult to correct haze. Second image is usable, but with postprocessing.

 

[Brian]

I found the block diagram of the AF-D 28/2.8. 12 elements in 9 groups.

And found online instructions for disassembling.

Nikon AF 20mm 2.8D Lens Repair

It looks like the rear section unscrews.

Nikon AF NIKKOR 20mm f/2.8D

photographylife.com

You should be able to get to the surfaces except the cemented doublet. If it is hazy, I suspect oil leaked into it. I have this lens- it is a first rate performer.

 

[Coksic]

I found the block diagram of the AF-D 28/2.8. 12 elements in 9 groups.

And found online instructions for disassembling.

Nikon AF 20mm 2.8D Lens Repair

It looks like the rear section unscrews.

Nikon AF NIKKOR 20mm f/2.8D

photographylife.com

View attachment 285230

You should be able to get to the surfaces except the cemented doublet. If it is hazy, I suspect oil leaked into it. I have this lens- it is a first rate performer.

Oh, I've done it all. It is easy to disassemble. Like I said. I couldn't do anything about the haze. The only option left is to de-cement those two elements.
The only question is - how..

 

[Coksic]

I found the block diagram of the AF-D 28/2.8. 12 elements in 9 groups.

And found online instructions for disassembling.

Nikon AF 20mm 2.8D Lens Repair

It looks like the rear section unscrews.

Nikon AF NIKKOR 20mm f/2.8D

photographylife.com

View attachment 285230

You should be able to get to the surfaces except the cemented doublet. If it is hazy, I suspect oil leaked into it. I have this lens- it is a first rate performer.

Thank you for the effort!

 

[Brian]

Decementing the Doublet- you might need to know the type of cement used. But Heat is usually required, like a few hundred degrees. Then- you need to center and cement them back together. This is a small group- not sure of the fixture is enough to align the elements.

I would use the lens as is until you can find a replacement, such as a lens with damaged front element or electronic failure.

 

[Coksic]

I would use the lens as is until you can find a replacement, such as a lens with damaged front element or electronic failure.

That will most likely be the case. Thanks for the input!

 

[Brian]

"AS IS" Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Auto Focus Lens - HAZE, MUST READ! (8579) | eBay

"AS IS" Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Auto Focus Lens Included with our lens is a rear cap and a front cap. Perfect for anyone looking for a lens to use for parts or to use for their photography! There may be things wrong that we do not know about.

www.ebay.com

Another 20/2.8 on Ebay described as Haze on the rear element. I suspect this is oil getting into the cement. I've had that happen before to other lenses.

 

[MountainMan79]

Well that certainly isn’t a good option for a parts lens, but at least confirms a similar or identical issue. Not really sure what that seller is thinking though considering you can find very nice examples for much less.
VERY GOOD Nikon AF NIKKOR 20mm f/2.8 ultra wide angle prime lens caps JAPAN DHL. | eBay

 

[Brian]

Well that certainly isn’t a good option for a parts lens, but at least confirms a similar or identical issue. Not really sure what that seller is thinking though considering you can find very nice examples for much less.
VERY GOOD Nikon AF NIKKOR 20mm f/2.8 ultra wide angle prime lens caps JAPAN DHL. | eBay

The seller is not realistic at all on his price. $75 would be closer to the value, but they did not put in a Make Offer option. I'm just noting the same issue: which probably means Nikon had a bad batch. This is also true of early AIS lenses: Nikon switched to a new lubricant that was a disaster. Probably a bad batch on these lenses.

 

[Coksic]

Well, I made the radical move, and boiled the cemented lens element in cooking oil, after not being able to do anything with acetone. It separated the two elements and got rid of the haze. I cleaned the two separated elements with acetone and alcohol, connected them without re-cementing, and reassembled the elements in the lens. It works, even though, I had suspicions about putting the elements back without re-cementing. However, that doublet element sits snug inside the small barrel, and it appears it doesn't even need cement. I haven't noticed any distortions or aberrations.
So far, things are looking good for this lens.

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[DM Larson]

Amazing results.

 

[Brian]

Well, I made the radical move, and boiled the cemented lens element in cooking oil, after not being able to do anything with acetone. It separated the two elements and got rid of the haze. I cleaned the two separated elements with acetone and alcohol, connected them without re-cementing, and reassembled the elements in the lens. It works, even though, I had suspicions about putting the elements back without re-cementing. However, that doublet element sits snug inside the small barrel, and it appears it doesn't even need cement. I haven't noticed any distortions or aberrations.
So far, things are looking good for this lens.

View attachment 288232

View attachment 288233

Great work- the only problem with the elements would be Newton's Rings.

Now- the cheap and easy way that I got rid of that on a $15 Canon 135/3.5 Rangefinder Lens....
I used Index Matching Fluid that you would use for a Microscope Oil Immersion Lens. Tiniest little but. 15+ years later, works fine.

 

[Coksic]

Great work- the only problem with the elements would be Newton's Rings.

Now- the cheap and easy way that I got rid of that on a $15 Canon 135/3.5 Rangefinder Lens....
I used Index Matching Fluid that you would use for a Microscope Oil Immersion Lens. Tiniest little but. 15+ years later, works fine.

I haven't noticed anything, other than some flares. It seems that the flaring is worse at the 90 degrees angle, than directly into the Sun.
How did you apply the fluid?

 

[Brian]

"Just one tiny drop" directly on the center of the glass, then placed the two elements into the barrel and tightened it down. The surfaces of the glass are that closely mated, spread the index matching gel evenly.

You are being redirected...

I had some like the above. Oil for immersion lenses should work the same.

 

[Coksic]

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Barnie]

Well, I made the radical move, and boiled the cemented lens element in cooking oil, after not being able to do anything with acetone. It separated the two elements and got rid of the haze. I cleaned the two separated elements with acetone and alcohol, connected them without re-cementing, and reassembled the elements in the lens. It works, even though, I had suspicions about putting the elements back without re-cementing. However, that doublet element sits snug inside the small barrel, and it appears it doesn't even need cement. I haven't noticed any distortions or aberrations.
So far, things are looking good for this lens.

View attachment 288232

View attachment 288233

Hi @Coksic ,

I have the same problem with my 20mm.
Can you please give a little bit more detail how to boil it in cooking oil?

Thanks a bunch in advanced.

Barnie

 

[Coksic]

Hi @Coksic ,

I have the same problem with my 20mm.
Can you please give a little bit more detail how to boil it in cooking oil?

Thanks a bunch in advanced.

Barnie

Hi, Barnie! I poured a cooking oil into a small coffee pot. I put the element which had haze in the oil and let it boil for 30 seconds or so. Be careful not to let oil boiling for too long. Let the oil cool off. You will probably need to further rinse the elements in alcohol. I used acetone. Also, see Brian's post about possible side effects. I noticed more flares on my copy.