Sony Made a command decision today: I'm not going to try and turn the RX1 into something it's not.

Location
Milwaukee, WI USA
Real Name
Luke

#1 - I like the article, although it tries to be a lot more scholarly than it needs to be
#2 - the more street photography I see, the more I hate the whole genre. There's definitely more bad "street" than bad "fill in the blanks"
#3 - Wishing I could be more easily satisfied doesn't make it easier for me to be satisfied (that's why people are miserable)
#4 - now I feel even worse....and I felt horrible before I even read that.
 

serhan

Hall of Famer
Location
NYC
+1 :)
Cheer up, Luke. Read the comments. Dpr at their obnoxious funniest.

I didn't know him before his gr review and looked at his blog at that time and I read a similar article. I guess it goes with his psychology degree. He contradicts with himself by saying test the different cameras to find what is working for you and then he says keep the one that you buy and don't return.

I like the NG photo seminars but lately I haven't followed them. Instead of gear, they talk about their approach and why/how they end up there... I also like traveler approach eg jake of all trades, master of none:) It's like a movie, starts with large landscape then zoom onto the city, etc., then the people, animals, food, etc, the whole story:) So zooms are the best supported with couple primes. I had a good dslr set up but it was heavy. M43 is closest to that but still I miss the dof from full frame. Mirrorless is still behind the dslrs, but surely they will catch up. Until then we will look for what works for us...
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Location
Not too far from Philly
Real Name
you should be able to figure it out...
#2 - the more street photography I see, the more I hate the whole genre. There's definitely more bad "street" than bad "fill in the blanks"

With respect, I think the second sentence of this statement is BS and is a direct result of the first. You hate the whole genre, THEREFORE you perceive there is more bad street photography than bad flower shots or photos of the Eiffel Tower or photos of Ryan Braun or whatever it is you DO like.

I like blues - even really mediocre blues sounds good to me. Even my OWN sorry attempts to play blues used to occasionally sound good to me. I don't like Country music or heavy metal - therefore I perceive that most country music and heavy metal is crap and I only tend to like the very cream of the crop. Only the very best of it sounds kind of OK to me and I don't even spend much time listening to THAT. Same with opera - I can't stand it, but that doesn't make it BAD. It just means I don't like it.

I think 90% of any genre is crap, and that may be a low estimate. And how badly we dislike that 90% is directly related to how we feel about the top 10% - if even THAT leaves us cold, we're gonna have less patience for the other 90...

I'll agree with you in one sense, though. I think street photography is the hardest type of photography (at least of those I've personally tried) to do well. I get a far lower percentage of keepers when I'm on the street than, say, taking pretty pictures of perfectly pleasant Positano or Praiano, which is honestly a bit like shooting fish in a barrel - it's almost hard NOT to. But those pesky people won't sit still, won't compose themselves the way I'd like and stay there until I can line up the shot, won't maintain the same expression or hand gesture or interaction I'm trying to catch, won't get in the right light, etc. so it's a given that there will be more street shots that won't work out than shots of flowers, which tend to just freaking SIT there with total patience while you find your damn macro lens and screw it on, or landscapes, which are always moving, but only in geologic time. You just have to get there when the light is right and have half an eye for composition and you'll come away with something reasonably nice.

Street is like playing an improvised jazz piece - you have to be quick on your feet and react to what everyone around you is playing at the same time you're trying to play your own shit. Not easy to do at all, let alone well. But some of us us keep trying because on the rare occasion when it DOES work, it's remarkably satisfying. I'll raise a glass to a well intended improvisation that goes astray every time, because I know how hard it is. And trying really hard stuff is a noble act in itself, and if you can't handle learning from abject failure, you should try something else.

So you're probably right on the math, but the spirit of your statement is just bias against something you don't like.

-Ray
 
Location
Milwaukee, WI USA
Real Name
Luke
Ray, you're right. But I still wish people were better editors of their own work.

And I guess it's easier for me to skip over bad cat photos or bad flower photos because they don't take themselves so seriously.

p.s. - bad blues is the worst :tomato2:
 

rpavich

Veteran
With respect, I think the second sentence of this statement is BS and is a direct result of the first. You hate the whole genre, THEREFORE you perceive there is more bad street photography than bad flower shots or photos of the Eiffel Tower or photos of Ryan Braun or whatever it is you DO like.

I like blues - even really mediocre blues sounds good to me. Even my OWN sorry attempts to play blues used to occasionally sound good to me. I don't like Country music or heavy metal - therefore I perceive that most country music and heavy metal is crap and I only tend to like the very cream of the crop. Only the very best of it sounds kind of OK to me and I don't even spend much time listening to THAT. Same with opera - I can't stand it, but that doesn't make it BAD. It just means I don't like it.

I think 90% of any genre is crap, and that may be a low estimate. And how badly we dislike that 90% is directly related to how we feel about the top 10% - if even THAT leaves us cold, we're gonna have less patience for the other 90...

I'll agree with you in one sense, though. I think street photography is the hardest type of photography (at least of those I've personally tried) to do well. I get a far lower percentage of keepers when I'm on the street than, say, taking pretty pictures of perfectly pleasant Positano or Praiano, which is honestly a bit like shooting fish in a barrel - it's almost hard NOT to. But those pesky people won't sit still, won't compose themselves the way I'd like and stay there until I can line up the shot, won't maintain the same expression or hand gesture or interaction I'm trying to catch, won't get in the right light, etc. so it's a given that there will be more street shots that won't work out than shots of flowers, which tend to just freaking SIT there with total patience while you find your damn macro lens and screw it on, or landscapes, which are always moving, but only in geologic time. You just have to get there when the light is right and have half an eye for composition and you'll come away with something reasonably nice.

Street is like playing an improvised jazz piece - you have to be quick on your feet and react to what everyone around you is playing at the same time you're trying to play your own shit. Not easy to do at all, let alone well. But some of us us keep trying because on the rare occasion when it DOES work, it's remarkably satisfying. I'll raise a glass to a well intended improvisation that goes astray every time, because I know how hard it is. And trying really hard stuff is a noble act in itself, and if you can't handle learning from abject failure, you should try something else.

So you're probably right on the math, but the spirit of your statement is just bias against something you don't like.

-Ray
Being a long-time guitarist, and sometime Jazz guitarist....I "get" this completely.

Well put.
 

rpavich

Veteran
Ray, you're right. But I still wish people were better editors of their own work.

And I guess it's easier for me to skip over bad cat photos or bad flower photos because they don't take themselves so seriously.

p.s. - bad blues is the worst :tomato2:

I also agree with this...we should all be better editors of our work. I wish I were.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Location
Not too far from Philly
Real Name
you should be able to figure it out...
Ray, you're right. But I still wish people were better editors of their own work.

And I guess it's easier for me to skip over bad cat photos or bad flower photos because they don't take themselves so seriously.

p.s. - bad blues is the worst :tomato2:
Bad metal is worse, but I guess they're ultimately kind of the same thing... But at least bad blues can be played acoustically and, thus, is easier to ignore. The only genius of punk is that the worse it is, the better it is...

-Ray
 

raconteur

Regular
Location
S.E. Wisconsin
With respect, I think the second sentence of this statement is BS and is a direct result of the first. You hate the whole genre, THEREFORE you perceive there is more bad street photography than bad flower shots or photos of the Eiffel Tower or photos of Ryan Braun or whatever it is you DO like.

I like blues - even really mediocre blues sounds good to me. Even my OWN sorry attempts to play blues used to occasionally sound good to me. I don't like Country music or heavy metal - therefore I perceive that most country music and heavy metal is crap and I only tend to like the very cream of the crop. Only the very best of it sounds kind of OK to me and I don't even spend much time listening to THAT. Same with opera - I can't stand it, but that doesn't make it BAD. It just means I don't like it.

I think 90% of any genre is crap, and that may be a low estimate. And how badly we dislike that 90% is directly related to how we feel about the top 10% - if even THAT leaves us cold, we're gonna have less patience for the other 90...

I'll agree with you in one sense, though. I think street photography is the hardest type of photography (at least of those I've personally tried) to do well. I get a far lower percentage of keepers when I'm on the street than, say, taking pretty pictures of perfectly pleasant Positano or Praiano, which is honestly a bit like shooting fish in a barrel - it's almost hard NOT to. But those pesky people won't sit still, won't compose themselves the way I'd like and stay there until I can line up the shot, won't maintain the same expression or hand gesture or interaction I'm trying to catch, won't get in the right light, etc. so it's a given that there will be more street shots that won't work out than shots of flowers, which tend to just freaking SIT there with total patience while you find your damn macro lens and screw it on, or landscapes, which are always moving, but only in geologic time. You just have to get there when the light is right and have half an eye for composition and you'll come away with something reasonably nice.

Street is like playing an improvised jazz piece - you have to be quick on your feet and react to what everyone around you is playing at the same time you're trying to play your own shit. Not easy to do at all, let alone well. But some of us us keep trying because on the rare occasion when it DOES work, it's remarkably satisfying. I'll raise a glass to a well intended improvisation that goes astray every time, because I know how hard it is. And trying really hard stuff is a noble act in itself, and if you can't handle learning from abject failure, you should try something else.

So you're probably right on the math, but the spirit of your statement is just bias against something you don't like.

-Ray

I would submit that motor-sports and concerts can be quite difficult. Not sure if you have tried those or not. (At least they provide easy excuses for poor shots; but the guy was going past me at 180mph!)

Seriously, I like the energy of both venues. As far as street photography goes I'm not versed in it at all. It seems that it ore presents many of the same challenges, like moving targets-and skittish people.

That's one of the many outstanding qualties of the RX1, it doesn't frighten people as much.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Location
Not too far from Philly
Real Name
you should be able to figure it out...
I would submit that motor-sports and concerts can be quite difficult. Not sure if you have tried those or not. (At least they provide easy excuses for poor shots; but the guy was going past me at 180mph!)

Seriously, I like the energy of both venues. As far as street photography goes I'm not versed in it at all. It seems that it ore presents many of the same challenges, like moving targets-and skittish people.

That's one of the many outstanding qualties of the RX1, it doesn't frighten people as much.
Oh, for sure - I wasn't suggesting that street shooting was the ONLY difficult type of photography, but one that combines a lot of relatively difficult elements. I guess I misstated that when I said "the hardest" instead of "among the hardest", but I did qualify it with "of those I've personally tried"... I've never done motor-sports but I've done a few bike races and they're fast enough. I did a lot of panning shots and got a few great ones, but the hit rate was NOT high! When I've done concerts it kind of came down to how close I could get and how much light I had to work with. But I did OK with those, given that I was just dabbling. But for me, I mostly do street work OR some of the much less challenging genres, like landscapes, streetscapes, abstracts, family shots, etc. So among those, and among much of what I see online, I find street the most challenging. But I'd think any sort of hard core sporting event (lots of action), or BIF types of shots are best done with a level of equipment that we're not generally talking about on Serious Compacts (long lenses, very fast PDAF auto-focus, so generally fairly powerful DSLRs, etc) AND requires a lot of practice and technique to really be able to anticipate the action and nail the right moment.

-Ray
 

Isoterica

Hall of Famer
#1 - I like the article, although it tries to be a lot more scholarly than it needs to be
#2 - the more street photography I see, the more I hate the whole genre. There's definitely more bad "street" than bad "fill in the blanks"
#3 - Wishing I could be more easily satisfied doesn't make it easier for me to be satisfied (that's why people are miserable)
#4 - now I feel even worse....and I felt horrible before I even read that.

1. Eric reads a lot. He does continue to study even out of school. He likes to share what he's learned. One can agree with it or not, or use the information he provides and apply it more suitably to themself. But consider this, if you don't agree, at least you haven't wasted your time reading it. ;) If you do like it then you can read it too.

2. In street photography there are some really excellent images out there but there is a lot of random junk you have to sift through. This applies to all genres though street photography right now seems to be trending. Kinda like Instagram type photos are and that is largely fueled by the internet and social networks. That's okay, people can choose to get involved with what they want to and ignore the rest.

3. As it harms non, do as ye will Luke. You aren't reaching beyond your means, you're just very tech curious and maybe still narrowing the field on what you want. If you find what works for you I trust you will keep it. At least until the new version comes out. :)

4. Chin up.. Are you enjoying yourself, testing the gear, sharing photos, talking to people? Then no worries.
 

rpavich

Veteran
Ok..I thought I'd come back and say that I finally got my X100S and I'm happy. It has it's own limitations but it does certain things very well...and coupled with the RX1 which has it's own set of things that it excels at...I'm happy with the set up...the whole thing fits in a Domke f/10 man bag and covers anything I like to shoot.

There is an Italian Festival this weekend so I'm hoping to take the X100S out for a real test run in a situation where there are a lot more people in the town than usual.
 

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