Fuji More new Fuji CSC rumors (drool, drool, drool)

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
Wow, so it WILL be an APS EXR sensor! Well, that has the potential to be spectacular if they get the details right. At least for those of us who aren't megapixel obsessed...

That's sort of what I thought when I first saw their promotional statements, but figured I was probably wrong, figuring EXR was a tech they were working on to overcome the limitations of small sensors rather than to make large ones even better, but why not?. But, damn, think about how good the X10 can be with a relatively small sensor with that tech and how good the X100 is with an APS without it, and this has the potential to be incredible. Great clean images at ISP 6400 or 12800? Incredible DR? I'm an EXR convert after the X10, so now I'm really interested. but for a system camera like this, things like AF speed and some other details will matter to me, so we'll have to see the specifics.

-Ray
 
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soundimageplus

Top Veteran
Jul 6, 2010
Wells Fargo? How did that end up there?
I was wondering that too. Didn't they do stagecoaches?

The camera looks very interesting, and if this is true, then a high quality 16MP sensor with fast primes is certainly going to prove popular, for lots of us "retro-heads".

I'm a bit more skeptical about this sensor. Fuji have been known to come up with descriptions of their sensors that tend to exaggeration. Their "super ccd" and the 12MP the s2 pro etc. series of cameras were supposed to produce, was perhaps technically true, in the same way that Sigma describe their Foveon sensor, but in reality the S series of DSLR's performed just like a 6MP camera.

I guess we can't really move forward these days without their being some headline feature which promises more than it delivers. A 16MP camera with the same performance as the X100, some fast primes, and a well designed retro look will be very popular with many photographers, and that is probably what we will get. Whether the claims of "better quality than full-frame" are justified we will have to wait and see. Again I remember all the fuss Fuji made about the S5, and its supposedly incredible dynamic range. I bought one and all it produced was dull, flat soft images.

The X100 is certainly a very decent camera and has excellent IQ. As far as I'm concerned the handling and menus leave a lot to be desired, but there's no denying it does a good job. It will be interesting to see how they deal with an interchangeable lens system, and its certainly good to see that they are seemingly going for the "retro chic" look and feel, though I'm not convinced, as yet, by the hybrid viewfinder.

The X100 certainly shook a few other manufacturers up and we are seeing their response in the current crop of mirrorless / EVIL / CSC's. Fuji have spotted a gap in the market, I feel, which is something like - A Leica aesthetic for those who can't, or don't want to, buy a Leica. Add in a sprinkling of modern technology, and I think they have a recipe for success.

Personally I think the NEX-7 is such a revolutionary camera, that they will struggle to achieve the same attention and success that they had with the X100. I believe Sony certainly took notice of the X100 and the "buzz" it created, and came up with the NEX-7 as a response both to that and the unexpected popularity of the NEX system. If Fuji were going to progress, an interchangeable system was essential, and its good to see that they have avoided the standard zoom, pancake, telephoto zoom scenario, that we have already.

All of this is still however speculation. However there was a interesting "coded" response from Dpreview, when asked if they had "missed" the new Fuji in their list of Fuji releases, this was the reply:-
It looks likes, from this advisory report, Fuji also announced the X-Pro1 with 3 lenses.
https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/.../m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442481
-Najinsky
That is a report from the future. We're under NDA so couldn't possibly comment...
SJ
 
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retow

All-Pro
Jul 24, 2010
I was wondering that too. Didn't they do stagecoaches?

The camera looks very interesting, and if this is true, then a high quality 16MP sensor with fast primes is certainly going to prove popular, for lots of us "retro-heads".

I'm a bit more skeptical about this sensor. Fuji have been known to come up with descriptions of their sensors that tend to exaggeration. Their "super ccd" and the 12MP the s2 pro etc. series of cameras were supposed to produce, was perhaps technically true, in the same way that Sigma describe their Foveon sensor, but in reality the S series of DSLR's performed just like a 6MP camera.

I guess we can't really move forward these days without their being some headline feature which promises more than it delivers. A 16MP camera with the same performance as the X100, some fast primes, and a well designed retro look will be very popular with many photographers, and that is probably what we will get. Whether the claims of "better quality than full-frame" are justified we will have to wait and see. Again I remember all the fuss Fuji made about the S5, and its supposedly incredible dynamic range. I bought one and all it produced was dull, flat soft images.

The X100 is certainly a very decent camera and has excellent IQ. As far as I'm concerned the handling and menus leave a lot to be desired, but there's no denying it does a good job. It will be interesting to see how they deal with an interchangeable lens system, and its certainly good to see that they are seemingly going for the "retro chic" look and feel, though I'm not convinced, as yet, by the hybrid viewfinder.

The X100 certainly shook a few other manufacturers up and we are seeing their response in the current crop of mirrorless / EVIL / CSC's. Fuji have spotted a gap in the market, I feel, which is something like - A Leica aesthetic for those who can't, or don't want to, buy a Leica. Add in a sprinkling of modern technology, and I think they have a recipe for success.

Personally I think the NEX-7 is such a revolutionary camera, that they will struggle to achieve the same attention and success that they had with the X100. I believe Sony certainly took notice of the X100 and the "buzz" it created, and came up with the NEX-7 as a response both to that and the unexpected popularity of the NEX system. If Fuji were going to progress, an interchangeable system was essential, and its good to see that they have avoided the standard zoom, pancake, telephoto zoom scenario, that we have already.

All of this is still however speculation. However there was a interesting "coded" response from Dpreview, when asked if they had "missed" the new Fuji in their list of Fuji releases, this was the reply:-
It looks likes, from this advisory report, Fuji also announced the X-Pro1 with 3 lenses.
https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/.../m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442481
-Najinsky
That is a report from the future. We're under NDA so couldn't possibly comment...
SJ
With all due respect, I think the NEX7 is overhyped. Photography is as much about lenses as it is about the camera. And the NEX lens lineup is far from being impressive or complete. As cameras come and go and sensor and processing technology are still improving at fast paces, camera systems should be build around lenses, not the other way around. Sony has pushed out about 6 NEX in 15 months and will continue at a similar pace going forward, or else the company's top line growth will be challenged . So the NEX7 will be a short episode in an electronic giants cycle of new products, forgotten in the "camera of the month hypes" of the next few seasons.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
Wells Fargo is a large (VERY large) US bank. Wells Fargo Advisors is clearly just part of its investment division. I don't know if this report is correct or not, but they're a very real institution and I don't think this is a phishing site. Wells Fargo holds a good chunk of my money and so far appears to be a very real large bank! Given that the rest of that release is basically official, I wouldn't be surprised if the X1-Pro portion ends up being legit too. Or maybe not, we'll see. :cool:

But if its true, I think the idea of an APS sensor with the EXR pixel binning approach sounds VERY exciting for those of use who don't care about the ultimate in resolution. David, I don't know how good this sensor would be for your purposes, because it sounds like your stock buyers and the various sites you submit images to are very concerned with resolution. But for many of us who are willing to trade off high resolution for better DR and noise control at high ISO, it could be very very good indeed. If they get it right, and get the rest of the camera right. There's obviously a lot left to learn, but I'm excited about the possibility.

-Ray
 
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alessandro

Regular
Sep 5, 2011
Vicenza, Italy
Wells Fargo is a large (VERY large) US bank. Wells Fargo Advisors is clearly just part of its investment division.
-Ray
They have their own domain.
https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com is an mworld.com domain, I doubt it's wells fargo's stuff. I didn't mean wells fargo is phishing stuff; I mean that page is some phishing operation by... who knows...
As you certainly know, a phishing page is a reproduction of the original page, where people can inadvertently put some reserved info that is going in the hand of the "phisher".

The correct link to wells fargo advisors site is https://www.wellsfargoadvisors.com/
Be careful
 
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Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
They have their own domain.
https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com is an mworld.com domain, I doubt it's wells fargo's stuff. I didn't mean wells fargo is phishing stuff; I mean that page is some phishing operation by... who knows...
As you certainly know, a phishing page is a reproduction of the original page, where people can inadvertently put some reserved info that is going in the hand of the "phisher".

The correct link to wells fargo advisors site is https://www.wellsfargoadvisors.com/
Be careful
Ineresting, all of those "mworld" pages say "powered by macro world" pretty clearly on the page and a lot of them are just various types of financial and market related stories. And some of the links on the mworld pages go back to the straight Wells Fargo (non-mworld) pages. So, maybe its BS or maybe its just some information service they use??? I don't know, but thanks for the heads-up...

-Ray
 
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alessandro

Regular
Sep 5, 2011
Vicenza, Italy
source: Ken Rockwell
What appears to be a moderately crafty con man who knows the basics of when cameras get announced (which is next week's CES show in Vegas) wrote a fake Nikon D4 press release and posted it on a site that is a phishing site designed to look like a financial service's website, hoping that a zillion people like you and I would check it out.

If a tiny percentage of us were distracted by the Nikon news, didn't ask ourselves why Wells Fargo would be publishing Nikon announcements, and then decided to log into what we subconsciously thought was Wells Fargo, that could make this guy's efforts worrthwhile.

Clever, but not clever enough to trick you folks, half of whom are IT pros. We all know that wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com is a virtual domain of mworld.com, and not at all a part of wellsfargoadvisors.com, but it was enough to get the useless rumors websites to pick it up and run with it as fact.

As I write this just before Wednesday midnight here in New York, the apparent phishing site is still up.
 
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Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
Doesn't the X100 wear an EXR badge on the top plate? How does the EXR processor work on that model?
You're right, it does. But there's no EXR processing done in that camera, so in that case they're clearly just using it as a generic marketing term. Which means that may be the same thing they're doing with this new system, if its even a real report. Sooooooo, maybe it'll be an APS with actual EXR processing and maybe its just another fine APS sensor withOUT EXR processing. I guess we're just gonna have to wait and see.

-Ray
 
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soundimageplus

Top Veteran
Jul 6, 2010
With all due respect, I think the NEX7 is overhyped. Photography is as much about lenses as it is about the camera. And the NEX lens lineup is far from being impressive or complete. As cameras come and go and sensor and processing technology are still improving at fast paces, camera systems should be build around lenses, not the other way around. Sony has pushed out about 6 NEX in 15 months and will continue at a similar pace going forward, or else the company's top line growth will be challenged . So the NEX7 will be a short episode in an electronic giants cycle of new products, forgotten in the "camera of the month hypes" of the next few seasons.
Several Points.

I'd be interested to know what experience you have with NEX lenses. I currently own them all, and as I constantly write in my blog, I'm bewildered as to where this "myth", and it is a "myth" comes from that says that NEX lenses are somehow inferior. I've done tests against other system lenses and also against m-mount lenses and found again and again, to my satisfaction, that this idea of NEX native lenses somehow being sub standard when compared to other systems just isn't substantiated. I did a test of the NEX 16mm against the Olympus 12mm and found there wasn't that much difference. If you want to check that out its here:- Soundimageplus: Comparison between Panasonic G3 + 12mm f/2 and Sony NEX-C3 + 16mm f/2.8

Add in the fact that the NEX-7 will take 1000's of other lenses via adapters, including Leica, Zeiss, Nikon etc. and the lens availability for the system becomes, I would suggest, a little less incomplete. Plus Sony have produced the mirrored a-mount NEX adapter which allows yet more lenses to be used with full-function, and I also take advantage of that.

Its going to be interesting to see whether 3rd. party lenses can be fitted to the Fuji, and we won't know that until its announced.

What I wrote was:- "Personally I think the NEX-7 is such a revolutionary camera..." Note that I very carefully avoided the use of words like "better" "more impressive" etc. Also please note the use of the word "Personally". Though I'm not sure how a camera that has 24MP, fast DSLR-like functionality in the size of a compact camera can be described as anything other than revolutionary.

You say you think its "overhyped", I don't know whether or not you have used one or tried one, but I am in the middle of a long rolling user experience on my blog. I think I am being fair in my appraisal, and I have already made comments regarding the poor high ISO performance, the somewhat bland basic colour and the fact that the images can appear somewhat soft on the screen as opposed to other cameras. I don't think I can be accused of "overhyping" or even "hyping" the camera. despite being accused (incorrectly) of being a paid lackey of the evil Sony empire by someone on another forum!

The NEX-7 is surely a starting point for a particular NEX product line. I agree with you about "forgotten in the "camera of the month hypes" of the next few seasons." But that surely is the destiny of all digital cameras.

You may not have any particular love for the NEX system, and as I think is pretty well known, neither did I. I have however been convinced by firstly the NEX-5n and now the NEX-7, and that is certainly where I see my immediate future.

Finally with regard to camera systems and lenses, Sony have more lenses available for the NEX system than Fuji have for any mirrorless interchangeable lens camera. At this current moment in time their total stands at zero.

But if its true, I think the idea of an APS sensor with the EXR pixel binning approach sounds VERY exciting for those of use who don't care about the ultimate in resolution. David, I don't know how good this sensor would be for your purposes, because it sounds like your stock buyers and the various sites you submit images to are very concerned with resolution. But for many of us who are willing to trade off high resolution for better DR and noise control at high ISO, it could be very very good indeed. If they get it right, and get the rest of the camera right. There's obviously a lot left to learn, but I'm excited about the possibility.
I agree with much of that, it will indeed be interesting to see what they come up with, However as I mentioned, Fuji do have a bit of a reputation for "spin" when it comes to describing their sensors. But I don't think anyone would have a problem with better DR and high ISO noise control.

You are right in that I'm very happy to trade poor high ISO results for more pixels, because of what I do. However I currently don't have much of a problem with poor DR on any of my cameras, including m4/3. If a new Fuji sensor came up with a "film-like" response to something like sparkling sunlit highlights on water then I would certainly sit up and take notice, but are we likely to get that? I certainly don't know.

This new camera is certainly very interesting and I will be keeping an eye out on the 10th. to see what they come up with.

I was actually trying, in my post, to soft pedal on what it might offer, and indeed put forward an alternative to the "overhyping" that does go on. It happened with the X100, the NEX-7 and it will probably be the same with this. I can see the "Leica Killer" post headlines already.

If my remarks were seen as some kind of "Fuji bashing" then that was certainly not my intention, and I thought that I made some very positive comments as to what might emerge. As consumers we are often as bad as the manufacturers and their publicity departments in getting somewhat carried away as to the relative differences between cameras and lenses. The more I use them, the more it seems to me that the differences are in fact quite small in terms of IQ, and I find myself more and more interested in functionality and ease of use. If I happen to get a few more MP's thrown in as well, then that works for me.
 

soundimageplus

Top Veteran
Jul 6, 2010
It seems the leaks are coming thick and fast.

Kind of looks like a GX1 with a built in viewfinder.
If the prices are correct its not cheap.
The item in the "description" that did quicken my heartbeat however was :-
"- There is no Anti Aliasing filter on the sensor."

Mmmmm........

New leaked image from photog mag on mirrorless rumors

Mirrorless Rumors | Blog | HOT!!! First image of the Fuji X PRO 1 !!!

Supposedly no AA filter, looks like ap ring on lens, separate AF sensor, etc. The dream camera essentially, so it does make me wonder about how real it it.
 
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Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
If my remarks were seen as some kind of "Fuji bashing" then that was certainly not my intention, and I thought that I made some very positive comments as to what might emerge.
I didn't take your comments as Fuji bashing in the least. I always find your comments worth a read, even given that we have different priorities and wants from our gear.

-Ray
 

retow

All-Pro
Jul 24, 2010
To Soundimageplus.
I enjoy reading your blog and reviews and think you do an excellent job in producing fair and balanced reviews of different makes and products. I certainly did not want to create the impression that you "overhype" the NEX7. It's more the www noise about the camera, which I think is overdone. My experience with the NEX is limited to the first generation of NEX5 with 16mm and kit zoom, which I bought as soon as it was available, used for a few weeks and had gathering dust in a closet for almost a year before dumping it into the market place. And then some hands on minutes with a NEX5N in store. To me, it's a totally uninspiring system in any respect, ergonomics, haptics, user interface, menu system, build quality, digitally looking files, and lastly and most importantly, lenses which are mediocre. I have not tried the NEX 7 and repeatedly said it's great looking camera. But it's like a car with great engine (body and sensor) and a frame, brakes and suspension from a lower category (lenses). And yes, I acknowledge, I'm very biased when it comes to the NEX system. :)
 

soundimageplus

Top Veteran
Jul 6, 2010
It's more the www noise about the camera, which I think is overdone.
Couldn't agree more.

My experience with the NEX is limited to the first generation of NEX5 with 16mm and kit zoom, which I bought as soon as it was available, used for a few weeks and had gathering dust in a closet for almost a year before dumping it into the market place.
I beat you. Mine lasted a week before going onto ebay. Shortest time I've ever owned a camera.

To me, it's a totally uninspiring system in any respect, ergonomics, haptics, user interface, menu system, build quality, digitally looking files, and lastly and most importantly, lenses which are mediocre. I have not tried the NEX 7 and repeatedly said it's great looking camera. But it's like a car with great engine (body and sensor) and a frame, brakes and suspension from a lower category (lenses). And yes, I acknowledge, I'm very biased when it comes to the NEX system. :)
For me the "road to damascus" moment was getting hold of the OLED viewfinder for the 5n. It became a different camera as far as I was concerned. The NEX-7 just takes that further, with the built in viewfinder. I had much the same concerns about the X100 in terms of the user interface and menu system and I differ with you on the NEX build quality, which I admire, particularly the lenses.

It is a difference of opinion, and I realise that. I will argue all day about the merits of NEX lenses, and I do think a lot of it has to do with the strength of the AA filter they use in the cameras. I've found a set of parameters in ACR that work for me, but I can see how people could have issues. The kit zooms I have are pretty mediocre, apart from f/8-f/11 and the 16mm is also a little soft around the edges unless its stopped down. I can see how you might be somewhat disenchanted with the system if that is all you have used, I certainly was.

The Zeiss 24mm is certainly something special though, and if you get the chance when it becomes more generally available, have a look at that. I think you would be impressed.

One nice thing about the NEX-7 is that it doesn't look quite as much like a bar of soap as the others!

I must say finally that Fuji are to be applauded on getting the aesthetics right, and if that rumour of no AA filter turns out to be true, then it could be a quite stunning camera for IQ. The X100 certainly produced wonderful images for me, even though I was not that impressed with other aspects.
 
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wt21

Hall of Famer
Aug 15, 2010
Not sure how this became a "NEX" thread -- such a pernicious topic.

I tracked the press release for the Fuji through the main page of Wells Fargo Advisors, and you can navigate to the release, so I don't think it's a fraud. Just posted too early, but time will tell. (go to www.wellsfargoadvisors.com, which is the URL I got when I Googled "Wells Fargo Advisors" then click on the "investment tools and insights" tab, then on the left click on "market data and news" then click on the "news" item that appears below that, then type in "fujifilm" in the search box on the right. for as long as it remains up, as of this posting, the Pro X1 item is second on the list, under the title "Fujifilm Introduces First Compact System Camera")
 
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wt21

Hall of Famer
Aug 15, 2010
Based on some other pics, the Fuji body looks more M9 sized, than EP3 sized (or EPM1 sized). But the lenses are pretty small.

Note: this leak is labeling the 60mm as a macro, and putting the body + 35mm kit at 1300 Euro.

From photo-cult.com:
 
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