Sony New Sony (A9 Mk1) User - My Experiences/Annoyances

cedge

cedge

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Name
Chris
So rather than bog down the GAS thread, I thought I'd post here my thoughts on it thus far. The Sony A9 is my first modern full frame camera that I've bought having used the Sony A7S briefly (for MF lenses only) and the Canon 5D Classic. Main reason I bought the A9 was for its AF and continuous autofocus tracking abilities for capturing my dog Billie running and other general photography and to obtain more of a 'Full Frame' look to my images and lower noise compared to my m43 cameras. Also in the running was a Canon R6 but was discounted due to lack of lenses so it would have proven extremely expensive unless I stuck with the older EF lenses but then they tend to be big and heavy and I wanted the option of lighter lenses. I really wanted a Lumix S5 but I knew that its AF system would have frustrated me and I wasn't convinced that performance would have been muxh better in the S5ii. This led me onto A9 which was a similar price to the R6 and the S5ii here in the UK used, as its capabilities tick a lot of boxes and the lens selection is vast. At present I only have the 85mm f1.8 as it was cheap used, it could achieve 20fps on the A9 and its AF was fast and my research led me to believe it would be a solid choice for dog running photograph; this seems to be correct so far.

My main cameras before this was the m43 Olympus E-M1 Mark 1 and 2. I had reasonable success in capturing my dog running with these cameras but the problem with the m43 system I find is that the noise in the image quickly creeps up and the hit rate was a little inconsistent. Yes you can use AI denoise but sometimes it made the images look a little too soft.

What I like about the A9 after 1 week:
  • AF Performance - With my olympus cameras it took time to see what images in a burst were in focus, then to decide which one to keep. As I know with the A9 that most are going to be in focus (it almost feels like cheating...), its much quicker to just cull the images in a burst and just focus on the compositions that I like if that make sense. I still need to work on my technique a little more in determining which focus areas works best for my dog but I'm sure I will get there to improve the hit rate further (and my technique). It also helps out in the field as in theory I just need to concentrate on composition as I know most of the images will be in focus.
  • Burst Mode - I quite like being able to select from single point to how many images I want to capture in a burst. I know I list this as a slight negative below, but there are benefits to having this selection on a dial.
  • Colours - Compared to the old Sony A7S I have, the colours are much much better SOOC from the A9, much more natural IMO and less of a green bias which helps a lot when editing even if you shoot RAW I find.
  • Image Quality - When you get what you want in focus, the image quality is very good and sharp.
  • EVF - Is nice and big, it would have been nice to be able to change the magnification of the view or shrink the picture a little so those of us who wear glasses could see more of the composition but no other complaints so far although it would be nice to customise what you see on the EVF/LCD a little more and the histogram is a little too small.
  • Tilting LCD - I generally prefer these to fully articulating screens as they are better IMO for photography. The one on the A9 is a little fiddly to pull out but its so small and compact.
  • I originally bought the Sigma MC-11 for the A7S and immediately sold it because it was so slow to aquire focus lock and it couldn't do it on the 50mm EF Macro lens I have; they almost feel like native glass on the A9 albeit C-AF tracking doesn't work that well with them but this is to be expected and I'm just happy that they work as well as they do.

What I don't like so far:
  • Even though its relatively light and compact compared to other FF cameras I looked at, it still feels very chunky and solid in the hand (I'm coming from m43....); I'm not sure whether I like the feel of it.
  • It feels sterile to use and I just don't like using it yet, maybe when I get some really good results and start using my vintage lenses with it, I will feel a bit more connected to the camera.
  • The menus and settings are a little chaotic and don't make much sense but hopefully with time I will get more accustomed to them.
  • Switching between different custom modes isn't as seemless as Olympus's Custom mode implementation as you still need to remember to switch to the correct focus mode and burst rate.
  • Animal/Human Detect - Its a little frustrating the need to select whether I'm shooting animals or humans; its a shame that there isn't an 'auto' selection for general use.

So on to pictures, according to the filename numbers, I've captued mainly using the electronic shutter 450 photos so far and have only 'kept' 24 images. A lot of bursts though trying out the different focus areas and AF settings which are still a work in progress. Here are a few of my favourites so far (I wanted the Lumix for the 'xpan' mode but I can still achieve that aspect ratio is post with the Sony when the composition to suit that format arises).

DSC00317-1.jpg
DSC00021-1.jpg
DSC00229-1.jpg

DSC00181-1.jpg

So I'm quite happy with the results so far, I obviously need to play with it a little more and tweak the settings. Im also contemplating what my next lens choices are going to be; I've never had wider than 24mm so maybe an ultra wide angle zoom would open up some opportunities. A fast 35mm/40mm prime is also on the cards as well as a nice modern MF lens with electronic contacts. I'll update this thread with any of my other thoughts as time marches on.
 
For sure, Sony has an excellent lens lineup these days, both Sony and many 3rd-party choices. For AF primes, I have the 24GM and 35GM. They are excellent, very sharp. For MF, I am a big fan of the Voigtlander APO lenses. They fully interact with Sony bodies. Besides focus peaking, for focus assistance you can set them up to zoom via button or automatically when you turn the focus ring. I found the latter annoying and use up a custom button on my A7R3 and A7R5.

The EVF on the A7R5 does let you zoom out, actually. I am not sure which if any other Sony bodies do that. I have not decided if I like it yet or not. Anyway, I cannot recall if you have the old-style menus or the newer ones. The older ones could be very confusing, and part of that is because the cameras have so many options it can get rather overwhelming at times. They re-organized them not terribly long ago and they are much better now. But the real secret is to learn how to customize the camera - assign your frequently used options to buttons and/or the Fn button (or the custom menus if you have them). In conjunction with memories I find after a while I almost never need to dip into the menus anyway. With so many options and buttons, the customizing can be a project in itself!
 
Thank you for sharing your experience. A lot of it feels similar to mine. I was a Micro Four Thirds shooter since 2010 with 6 cameras from both Panasonic and Olympus but I made a switch to Sony a7C and Tamron 28-200mm f 2.8-5.6 Di III RXD when I sold all my dream Olympus E-M1 Mark III and lenses when I was about to become a father and start a family but that didn't happen and I had to sell the Sony and the lens to be able to keep the roof over my head. Took me a couple of years of hard work and I got back into Sony with the a7R II because that's all I could afford BUT I did focus on the lenses and I got the Tamron 28-75mm f 2.8 G2, Tamron 70-180mm f 2.8, Tamron 150-500mm f 5-6.7 and tested a few third party lenses (Samyang AF 35mm f 2.8, Samyang AF 35mm f 1.8, Sony FE 50mm f 1.8 two times, Tokina atx-m 85mm f 1.8, Sony FE 28-60mm f 4-5.6) and eventually settled on Sony FE 28mm f 2 and Sony FE 85mm f 1.8 ... then I made the leap to Sony a7 Mark IV because I was frustrated with the autofocus and wanted the Real Time AF Tracking for dogs and the Eye-AF for the birds.

Like you, it felt like cheating because the AF was so reliable I would very rarely have a miss-focused or out-of-focus shot ... from photographing my little Yorkie-Russel (she can be extremely fast for her size) to shooting wildlife and birds in flight, it felt like I was the only limitation to getting the image I wanted. I didn't get along to well with the ergonomics but I got used to it, but still, after a year of usage it still felt like a very effective but not very fun and engaging camera to use. BUT I LOVE THE IMAGE QUALITY AND I MISS IT A LOT, and I am not talking just about the "Full Frame" look, but the ability to render so much more details with those 32 Megapixels (it is advertised as 33 MP but in actual fact it's 32.5 MP effective, it's marketing so what can you do :p ) if I am not cropping down to less then 14 MP, the rendition of shadow and black is so much better I can underexpose by 2-3 stops and save all the highlights and still get the shadows back to full detail quality (if I shoot less then ISO 1600, even FF has it's limits) which was a huge benefit because my dog has silver, gold and black hair and I can never get all of that in one exposure with any Micro Four Thirds camera. And where I can see the most in my portraits of her is in her eyes, no matter where she is in the frame or how big or small she is I can always see structures of her iris and glint in her eyes when I post-process the RAW files to the maximum they can handle ... and I got ALL my favorite images OF ALL TIME of her with the Sony a7 Mark IV.

So why did I sell the Sony if I was so happy with it one may ask? Well, it's not all sunshine and puppies and quite a bit of it is my own fault (I won't deny that):

*DUST ... I know now that I got very unlucky with my used copy of the Sony a7 IV that I bought, but there was permanently stuck to the sensor glass dust that would show up in all my images starting at f 5.6 and when shooting at macro distances at all apertures. I cleaned it more than 2 dozen times with sensor swabs and I could never get rid of them. They would constantly show up in my wildlife, birds, and pet portraits and landscapes with sky in them and they would show up in ALL the macro images I ever tried, I spent hours cleaning those spots to the point that I couldn't take it trying to do manual focus stacking. (I had the sensor shield on but it won't engage in certain conditions and it doesn't help when you already have the dust on it)
*10 FPS ... it might be enough for most people but I lost (or more that I didn't capture) those exact poses of my and other dogs running and while you get all of them excellently focused if it was just a little bit more it would have been perfect ... I found after shooting with the Olympus OM-1 that 20 to 25 FPS is just perfect for that. Now what this means is that of all the Sony cameras the only ones that would fit my interest bill are the Sony a9 and a9 Mark II but these 2 don't get the improved Real Time Tracking and Subject recognition but they are the only ones "affordable" ... then there's the a1 and a9 Mark III which have everything but then they cost everything I have (like selling all my "spare" organs and maybe a limb or two).
*The curses of Sony's Crippling Hammer(TM): no 20 FPS and teleconverter access with 3rd party lenses ... so if you want to be versatile you have to stick with Sony FE lenses, especially the expensive GM lenses. So it's either 24 MP (Sony a9) for 20 FPS or 33 MP (Sony a7 IV, a7C II) for 10 FPS and more cropping.
*Focus Bracketing will never be backported to anything less the current generation: a7R V, a7C II, a7C R, a9 III, a6700
*High-resolution stacking will not be shared with any cameras outside the R lineup (even though the Image Processors and the IBIS systems have been used on other cameras so the hardware is there)
*Weight, not the camera itself but if I want to do wildlife (and I do) I can't get more than 500mm reach at 2KGs or less and a lot of it is because Sony won't let you use TC with the new Sigma 500mm f 5.6 or Tamron 150-500mm f 5-6.7 ... so it's either Sony 200-600mm or G Master lenses with TC :/
PS. Forgot to mention another downside, the Sony colors are not great, I can still get exceptional color rendition and saturation if I push the RAW file to their limit which means every image needs work to get them beautiful (whereas on Olympus RAW files I rarely have to touch any color related slider), both the White Balance and the Saturation/Vibrance needs a bit of tweaking but I quickly found my personal taste and after I edit one image I Copy/Paste to all the others and only adjust the exposure and local adjustments when and where needed.

Now if I hadn't had so much interest and curiosity in so many types of photography (landscape, macro, portrait, action, wildlife, street, even starting to get into sports) I would have been happy with just Sony a7 IV but it just can't do all of this effectively and I had the "chasing the light into a blackhole" fever of one-camera-that-can-do-it-all ... but I have come to see that Olympus OM-1 is not that and it's my loss for hoping that.

Like you, I have thought about the Panasonic S5 Mark II because it does do 30 FPS and has Focus Bracketing and High-Resolution Stacking (even Hand-Held mode), and AI Subject Detection BUT I doubt the AF is there, or even close to OM-1s, and it doesn't have PRO Capture.
I have looked into Nikon options but it's only the Z8 and Z9 that have the autofocus performance that Sony can do and their prices are not something I can afford.
Canon is out of the question for me because their lenses are so MUCH more expensive and without 3rd party options I just can't afford their L zooms.

So I am back to thinking about the Sony system but I am conflicted on the option:
1) Sony a9 Mark I ... but I will have to shoot with the first generation GM lenses because I can't afford the GM Mark II even 2nd hand and less cropping at 24 MP and a bit less DR compared to the newer 32 MP sensor.
2) Sony a7 Mark IV ... but not get the newer dedicated AF chip and if I am going to live with 10 FPS might as well stick with Tamron zooms anyway as they are the most affordable option
3) Sony a7C II ... not the most ergonomic but as portable as Micro Four Thirds, especially with primes and Tamron zooms, and get the AF chip for even better subject recognition and tracking

Sorry for the long post ... I've been having this on my chest for months now and it feels basically like therapy to put it down in words now. Though I do feel less crazy now I also do feel a bit more foolish.
 
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As others have stated thank for sharing your thoughts. Even though I’m not in the Sony ecosystem, it is an interesting read to see how the other half lives, so to speak.

I can see a lot of parallels between what you say and good I feel about the modern Nikon Z mounts.
 
Just a note on Sony color - recent bodies have improved quite a lot on the so-called "color science". I actually considered going to jpegs instead of RAWs when I got the A7R5 to streamline my workflow. My test shots looked very good, but I am rather fond of RAW tweaking so ultimately did not go that way. I have read others also saying they sometimes will shoot jpegs with the A1 and A7R5, and I would imagine it applies to the A7CR and perhaps A7C II. The built-in profiles can be tweaked almost as much as the beloved Fuji camera profiles. But as usual with Sony, these are unlikely to ever be back-ported even if it were possible. But for anyone consider the more recent bodies, it is much better.

Personally, I never had much of a problem with the colors I got out of the A7R3, or even the earlier bodies as far as I can remember. It must be very subject-dependent. Anyway, I am getting old and less and less likely to abandon Sony for greener pastures (pun intended).
 
The Sony A9 was updated to have real time eye AF tracking and that was a big draw. I am lucky I guess in that I don't have a ton of canon or Nikon glass in the closet so for a modern FF solution I was starting from scratch bar a couple of cheapo EF lenses that I use on my Canon 5Dc. I was tempted with an OM-1/G9ii and may pick one up at a later date when the prices drop a little more but not sure if the hit rate and AF performance would be there for dog running photography.
 
cedge said:
What I don't like so far:
  • Even though its relatively light and compact compared to other FF cameras I looked at, it still feels very chunky and solid in the hand (I'm coming from m43....); I'm not sure whether I like the feel of it.
  • It feels sterile to use and I just don't like using it yet, maybe when I get some really good results and start using my vintage lenses with it, I will feel a bit more connected to the camera.
  • The menus and settings are a little chaotic and don't make much sense but hopefully with time I will get more accustomed to them.
  • Switching between different custom modes isn't as seemless as Olympus's Custom mode implementation as you still need to remember to switch to the correct focus mode and burst rate.
  • Animal/Human Detect - Its a little frustrating the need to select whether I'm shooting animals or humans; its a shame that there isn't an 'auto' selection for general use.

So I'm quite happy with the results so far, I obviously need to play with it a little more and tweak the settings. Im also contemplating what my next lens choices are going to be; I've never had wider than 24mm so maybe an ultra wide angle zoom would open up some opportunities. A fast 35mm/40mm prime is also on the cards as well as a nice modern MF lens with electronic contacts. I'll update this thread with any of my other thoughts as time marches on.
Click to expand...
Congrats! Since the rest of your post is about things you like, let's focus on the things you don't like.

Bullet points #1, 2, and 3 are simply getting used to the camera. I came from the Panasonic G9, which is easily the most comfortable camera I had ever used, it just felt right from day one. It took only a few weeks with the Sony for me to become accustomed to everything you mention. Maybe it takes you a bit longer, but none of it is insurmountable to an open mind. Those entering the ecosystem with a biased view will ultimately find it more difficult if not impossible.

Bullet point #4 is a bit different. When the A9 was introduced it was Sony's flagship. The addition of the dials on the left to control shutter and AF modes was to allow pros quick access to those settings. You'll find having them there as opposed to entering into menus or the function button to make a quick change is a huge bonus. My A7 IV is more traditional, it allows those options to be programmed into the Custom modes on the dial. My A1, on the other hand, is like your A9. On the new A9III Sony has put an option on the dial called 'screen' (I think) that allows you to program it or use the dial, so the best of both worlds.

Bullet point #5: You can program that to a custom key to make it easy to toggle back and forth.

Regarding lenses, I have the Samyang 24/1.8 and the 35/1.4. Both are excellent lenses, however they fall under the third party lens limit of 15FPS. I rarely use anything faster than 10FPS, so it's irrelevant to me.

Also, for a neat feature and quick temporary changes to an entire group of settings, see this link:

cameraderie.org

Sony - 'Custom Hold' Shooting, very cool.

Edited for a clearer description. Now that the Tamron lets me pan without changing cameras/lenses, I wanted a way to quickly switch to panning settings on the camera. I have a complete setup for action on the mode dial, Custom Mode 1. It has a fast shutter and certain settings for the head-on...
cameraderie.org cameraderie.org
 
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L0n3Gr3yW0lf said:
BUT I LOVE THE IMAGE QUALITY AND I MISS IT A LOT, and I am not talking just about the "Full Frame" look, but the ability to render so much more details with those 32 Megapixels (it is advertised as 33 MP but in actual fact it's 32.5 MP effective, it's marketing so what can you do :p )
Click to expand...
I have never seen that before. It's always reported as effective 33MP with 34MP photosites.
L0n3Gr3yW0lf said:
*DUST ... I know now that I got very unlucky with my used copy of the Sony a7 IV that I bought, but there was permanently stuck to the sensor glass dust that would show up in all my images starting at f 5.6 and when shooting at macro distances at all apertures. I cleaned it more than 2 dozen times with sensor swabs and I could never get rid of them.
Click to expand...
If it wasn't coming off, it wasn't dust. I just took my A7-IV on a photo trip and checked it before I left, having not cleaned it since last April at the beginning of drag racing season. There were two small specs near the center and a dust bunny near the bottom. They were so insignificant that I didn't bother cleaning the sensor. I will clean it as per usual at the beginning of the season.
 
I tend to agree it was not dust. Dust has been something of a bane for a lot of Sony shooters but not that bad. I probably would have taken/sent it off to be serviced.

The A7R5 like some other cameras now has a feature to close the shutter when powering down. I have had this several months now and have yet to need to even blow dust out of the camera, it is awesome. And sadly a function that seems it could be easily back-ported to at least some cameras Sony still sells, but probably never will be.
 
bdbits said:
I tend to agree it was not dust. Dust has been something of a bane for a lot of Sony shooters but not that bad. I probably would have taken/sent it off to be serviced.

The A7R5 like some other cameras now has a feature to close the shutter when powering down. I have had this several months now and have yet to need to even blow dust out of the camera, it is awesome. And sadly a function that seems it could be easily back-ported to at least some cameras Sony still sells, but probably never will be.
Click to expand...
Shutter when power off ain't all it's cracked up to be, from my point of view. I leave it turned off in my A7 IV, I don't even know if it exists in the A1. From the Sony manual:

Note​

  • When [Shutter When Pwr OFF] is set to [On], attach the lens cap before storing the camera. Otherwise, a strong light source (such as sunlight) may become focused inside the camera, causing smoke or fire. Even if the light source is slightly away from the angle of view, it may still cause smoke or fire when the lens cap is not attached.
  • Do not touch the closed shutter with your fingers or clean it with a blower. The shutter may become damaged.
  • If there is a risk of water droplets adhering to the shutter, set [Shutter When Pwr OFF] to [Off]. If [Shutter When Pwr OFF] is set to [On], water droplets may adhere to the shutter and cause a malfunction.

Yeah...no...
 
So basically they're telling you that when the [Shutter When Pwr OFF] is used, ie it's ON, the shutter could be damaged just like an old rangefinder camera shutter could be damaged from sunlight being focused on the shutter curtain.
Makes sense to me since the shutter isn't glass (at least I don't think it is) like the sensor is so it's susceptible to damage from light being focused on it.
 
AlwaysOnAuto said:
So basically they're telling you that when the [Shutter When Pwr OFF] is used, ie it's ON, the shutter could be damaged just like an old rangefinder camera shutter could be damaged from sunlight being focused on the shutter curtain.
Makes sense to me since the shutter isn't glass (at least I don't think it is) like the sensor is so it's susceptible to damage from light being focused on it.
Click to expand...
In truth the sensor could probably be damaged as well if there was enough focused sunlight, yet Sony feels the need to warn us about the shutter. Mirrorless cameras are going to be a prone to this where a DSLR isn't because the mirror protects the sensor and shutter.

When it comes to the closed shutter protecting from dust, I question how much it really matters? If the dust settles on the closed shutter, and the closed shutter is too fragile to even blow it off with a jet blower, then that means loose dust is going to shake off the next time it is activated. Where will the dust end up? It most likely goes right onto the sensor anyway. I'd rather just blow it off the sensor than worry about the shutter.

In the above account of checking my sensor I noted it had been almost a year since I had cleaned it and there were only a few minor specs of dust. Bear in mind the environment I do 90% of my shooting is filthy. Unburned rubber particles floating in the air, dust, mist from track glue, unburned fuel. Yet, my sensor isn't full of junk. I just use common safe practices. Point the camera body down to reduce the chance of dust settling on the sensor, and change the lens quickly. Every once in a while, maybe 2-3 times per season, I'll blow the sensor off with a jet blower. So far I've had an A6000, A7R III, A7 IV, and an A1. While I've only had the A1 for a few months, dust on the sensor has never been a problem for the other cameras, at least for me. In fact the sensor on my G9 seemed to collect crap faster than any of my Sony cameras. I embarrassingly sold that camera to a fellow forum member without checking before I shipped, and felt pretty bad when they told me about it. I think the Sony sensor/dust thing is way overblown.
 
Brownie said:
  • When [Shutter When Pwr OFF] is set to [On], attach the lens cap before storing the camera. Otherwise, a strong light source (such as sunlight) may become focused inside the camera, causing smoke or fire. Even if the light source is slightly away from the angle of view, it may still cause smoke or fire when the lens cap is not attached.
  • Do not touch the closed shutter with your fingers or clean it with a blower. The shutter may become damaged.
  • If there is a risk of water droplets adhering to the shutter, set [Shutter When Pwr OFF] to [Off]. If [Shutter When Pwr OFF] is set to [On], water droplets may adhere to the shutter and cause a malfunction.
Click to expand...

I pretty much never have the camera without a lens or a body cap on it, and the lens is normally capped if not in use, especially in sun.
I don't poke around inside the camera without a good reason, and would disable the feature if I had reason to do so.
The chance of me getting water in the camera is virtually non-existent, but if I was in a wet environment I would likely not be changing lenses.

I see those notes as mostly CYA from Sony lawyers, much like the "safety precautions" you get in just about every user guide/manual these days; sometimes that is the bulk of the document. It's not that I am careless, but none of the above is a problem if you have any common sense and know anything about cameras.

If you don't see the value, don't use it. It's made a difference for me in my climate and usage, and I intend to keep using it.
 
bdbits said:
I pretty much never have the camera without a lens or a body cap on it, and the lens is normally capped if not in use, especially in sun.
I don't poke around inside the camera without a good reason, and would disable the feature if I had reason to do so.
The chance of me getting water in the camera is virtually non-existent, but if I was in a wet environment I would likely not be changing lenses.

I see those notes as mostly CYA from Sony lawyers, much like the "safety precautions" you get in just about every user guide/manual these days; sometimes that is the bulk of the document. It's not that I am careless, but none of the above is a problem if you have any common sense and know anything about cameras.

If you don't see the value, don't use it. It's made a difference for me in my climate and usage, and I intend to keep using it.
Click to expand...
I spend hours and hours in direct sunlight with the lens hanging sideways and no cap. I don't have time to think about if the lens is pointing toward the sun or not. Of course it's CYA, that's obvious. The point is they feel the need to CYA the shutter but not the sensor. Keep in mind that when in that mode the shutter is also exposed when changing lenses. Go look up photos of damaged Sony shutters, they're fragile as heck. I prefer to keep it tucked back out of the way. Accidents happen. But yeah, you do you.
 
Chiming in as another slightly frustrated m43 user - I attended the Photography and Video Show at the NEC yesterday, and took the opportunity to try various cameras and lenses as I'm possibly looking to replace my Panasonic G9. To my surprise, the lens I liked most in terms of feel and handling was a Sony 200-600, so I've booked a hire of an A7R IV and a 200-600 from Wex Rentals for the Easter weekend (incidentally my birthday weekend too)
 
sasquatchphotog said:
Chiming in as another slightly frustrated m43 user - I attended the Photography and Video Show at the NEC yesterday, and took the opportunity to try various cameras and lenses as I'm possibly looking to replace my Panasonic G9. To my surprise, the lens I liked most in terms of feel and handling was a Sony 200-600, so I've booked a hire of an A7R IV and a 200-600 from Wex Rentals for the Easter weekend (incidentally my birthday weekend too)
Click to expand...
Happy birthday in advance and I hope you will enjoy your time with the setup as well. If you will write a post about it I wouod love to learn from your experience and read your about your experience.
 

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