Feedback Nice bright look at new site

[kyteflyer]

OK more weirdness. Fonts are just fine on my Air2. Its the 12.9 Pro thats being difficult. @Kevin I think leaving things as they are is the best option

 

[bartjeej]

I'm a lazy forum user, almost exclusively using the Latest Posts bar to see what's going on that I might want to check out. Right now there's no latest posts bar beneath an opened thread in mobile view (android 9 firefox). Is it possible to bring that back? It's no massive effort to open the home page after finishing reading a thread and check out the latest posts from there, but having it at the bottom of an opened thread is convenient.

 

[Kevin]

I'm a lazy forum user, almost exclusively using the Latest Posts bar to see what's going on that I might want to check out. Right now there's no latest posts bar beneath an opened thread in mobile view (android 9 firefox). Is it possible to bring that back? It's no massive effort to open the home page after finishing reading a thread and check out the latest posts from there, but having it at the bottom of an opened thread is convenient.

When viewing the mobile 'mini' navigation the lightning bolt icon in the upper right should server the same thing as clicking "What's New". If you are logged into Cameraderie then the lightning bolt will be superimposed with a red indicator showing your number of unread posts.

 

[bartjeej]

Nice! Although it takes you to the first post of the thread rather than the first unread post, and it shows the identity of the OP rather than the author of the first unread post, both of which are a bit counter-intuitive for a 'what's new' page.

 

[drd1135]

I like medium theme. Definitely the “baby bear” choice.

 

[Ripleysbaby]

As I’ve unloaded all my Fuji gear and gone all Olympus, I’ve been spending some time over at my-43.com.
It’s unbelievable how much I prefer the look of that site compared to how this one has changed.
Am I the only one that can’t get to grips with this new look ?

 

[theoldsmithy]

As I’ve unloaded all my Fuji gear and gone all Olympus, I’ve been spending some time over at my-43.com.
It’s unbelievable how much I prefer the look of that site compared to how this one has changed.
Am I the only one that can’t get to grips with this new look ?

Nope, you’re not alone. I like the bigger inline images in posts, but the old style works much better on a tablet. I’m sure Kevin is doing his best to please everyone, but I’m also fairly sure that the Xenforo developers all have 27 inch screens and assume everyone else has. They should develop a “tablet mode” which makes better use of a small screen.

 

[MoonMind]

Well, I don't have any qualms with the looks or anything - yes, it's pretty bright, but it's not as if it was ugly, and we do have a choice; in fact, the slight adjustments of Kevin's to the "Light" theme are helpful already.

What I have issues with is that navigating this site is much more complex now - and even perplexing at times. I thought nested menus and ever-changing breadcrumbs were thoroughly a thing of the past, and now they're back in force.

However, I suspect that's basically through no fault of Kevin's - that's XenForo's doing, most probably.

Newer ain't always better - and anyway, UI trends are often questionable (we all remember the Windows 8 desaster, I guess). What we have here is a clear case of Featuritis (think M$ Word strip menus instead of a unified - and easily customisable - main menu like LibreOffice Writer; the M$ stuff looks impressive, but is a pain to use and adjust by comparison).

The things I find pretty irritating don't come down to looks - it's all about simplicity, choice and customisation.

I come here mainly for the images and exchange with like-minded people (and some pleasantly constructive gear talk), and I want as little stuff as possible between me and finding my preferred threads as well as worthwhile new discussions. But now, the multiple views and lists of new stuff are puzzling at best, and often also annoying because they're only almost redundant: I don't want nor need virtually identical lists of "What's New" and "New Posts" that I have to wade through in order to get the full picture. Posts are what drives a forum - the rest can take a back seat, though it'd be nice to have it available in a sufficiently fast and simple manner.

Furthermore, while I'm glad that there are already more buttons in places to mark the forum read, why isn't there a simple top-level menu entry that's always visible? And why do I have to go through the menu to get at new posts from some places (like the front page!), but not others? A simple top-level menu with a few crucial direct links and one more detailed drop-down menu for diving deeper would (and should, IMO) do. Besides, does anyone use the "Media" and "Members" menu regularily - apart maybe from the Moderators?

Another case in point, I simply am not interested in classifieds, but now they clutter up my "New Posts" list (as well as having their own menu). It's not too bad at the moment because there aren't a whole lot of Marketplace posts, but if it got any worse, it'd put me off big time. I was obviously able to make them disappear previously, but now I'm not. Pity.

And lastly, though it's nice at times to get a more detailed impression of reactions, I did prefer the more condensed feedback of the old Alerts list (which, for each post or media item, displayed one entry, regardless of the number of reactions if they were of the same kind). No big deal, just another long, cluttered list to view ...

So, all in all, I hope the back-end and stability enhancements are worth the whole hassle of upgrading for Kevin. For me as a user, the experience isn't any better (yet) - if anything, it's become more complicated, considerably more cluttered and less straightforward. It's usable, but less so than it was. But crucially, a flurry of little annoyances can severely impact experience and usability - we all know that.

If we could configure our front-end experience individually, all of this wouldn't be a problem. But that's one heck of a lot of work to provide - if it's possible at all. We'll probably have to settle for a one-size-doesn't-exactly-fit-anyone solution. And it's not as if the forum wasn't a nice resource anymore. So we'll just have to discuss things - that's something we should be good at, don't you think?

Anyhow, I'm all for giving Kevin time to sort things out and make his own decisions; after all, we're all happy he stepped in and kept this site alive.

M.

 

[Kevin]

Am I the only one that can’t get to grips with this new look ?

Anything in particular?

They should develop a “tablet mode” which makes better use of a small screen.

I'd actually agree with that. The layout on a nice big screen and on small handheld device seem to be fine but the 'in-between' device sizes like tablets are harder to get right. If you let me know what device you're using I'll try to mimic that resolution when testing to see how stuff looks. If course if there is anything that you think would look better changed at that resident k resolution let me know and I'll see what can be done.

 

[theoldsmithy]

Anything in particular?
I'd actually agree with that. The layout on a nice big screen and on small handheld device seem to be fine but the 'in-between' device sizes like tablets are harder to get right. If you let me know what device you're using I'll try to mimic that resolution when testing to see how stuff looks. If course if there is anything that you think would look better changed at that resident k resolution let me know and I'll see what can be done.

I’m using an iPad with a 9.7” retina display.

 

[Kevin]

Some weekend updates/thoughts...

that's XenForo's doing, most probably.

Yep, the new menu structure is the default for XF2; till now the only menu change I had done was to add in the "Buy & Sell" link to duplicate the link that was in the old version of the site's menu. I did not add the "Hot Deals" link back to the menu since the same thing can now be gotten to by the "Buy & Sell" drop-down menu.

I don't want nor need virtually identical lists of "What's New" and "New Posts"

That's an item I agree with and I've made slight tweak to help out with it. On a site that heavily utilizes the forums and the media gallery and the resources directory and other sections then having a consolidated "What's New" page makes sense. But... really, Cameraderie sees 99.9% (made up number, but you guys/gals get the idea) of its usage in the forums as forum posts. So with that in mind I changed the "What's New" in the floating menu bar to go directly to the "Unread Posts" tab of the results. The full tabbed results are still shown but now you'll be taken by default to "Unread Posts" which is what most Cameraderie members are likely after.

This avoids the 'double-click' scenario of previously clicking "What's New" and then clicking on the "Unread Posts" tab or, on a smaller screen, the 'triple-click' scenario of clicking the 'hamburger' menu and then choosing the "What's New" dropdown arrow and then clicking on "Unread Posts".

For members on mobile devices, or really small screen sizes, clicking the lightning bolt icon in the upper-right (where the number of unread posts appears) will now also go directly to the "Unread Posts" tab.

I did prefer the more condensed feedback of the old Alerts list

I've installed an add-on over the weekend that is supposed to act the same way as the old XF1 add-on (it's even by the same vendor) but either I'm not getting enough alerts to notice a difference or it's not working the same. I'm still looking into it.

Another case in point, I simply am not interested in classifieds

Matt & I spoke via PM about this one and he's testing out an add-on that will be available to subscribers to allow ignoring specified forums & threads.

I’m using an iPad with a 9.7” retina display.

If I'm looking at the right specs, that's a resolution of 768x1024 (essentially the old 1024x769 standard but in portrait mode). At that resolution you should be seeing the main content full-screen with sidebar content shown below the main content. I'll keep that resolution in mind when testing the screen changes. Chrome on my desktop allows me to mimic different device resolutions pretty easy; it doesn't replicate the Safari browser or iOS but at a minimum I can see roughly the same layout you should be seeing.

I hope the back-end and stability enhancements are worth the whole hassle of upgrading

From an admin' perspective, yes, the hassles are worth the upgrade because we're no longer restricted to a software version that was a both major version old (1.x vs 2.x) and a minor version old (we skipped upgrading from 1.x to 2.0.x and went straight to the current 2.1.x version). Behind-the-scenes, a lot has changed. More importantly though the life support of XF 1.x is ending this year so support will be ending for it from the devs, even for security updates. A few things got missed during the upgrades, mostly with add-ons, but we're still in a position as a community where we upgraded and are working on stuff by choice versus being under pressure of running software that is both outdated & unsupported.

At the end of this year sites still running XF 1.x will find themselves in a difficult place of having to decide to either (a) continue to run XF 1.x with no support, (b) upgrade to XF 2.x, or (c) migrate away from XF to a totally different software vendor like IPS. For sites with a bunch of 3rd-party add-ons, like Cameraderie had (and its former sister sites), the effort to update from XF 1.x to 2.x versus migrating to different software is roughly the same effort and planning.

And it's not as if the forum wasn't a nice resource anymore. So we'll just have to discuss things - that's something we should be good at, don't you think?

Anyhow, I'm all for giving Kevin time to sort things out and make his own decisions; after all, we're all happy he stepped in and kept this site alive.

I appreciate you guys understanding the efforts that are being done to keep things running.

If I could add one thing, I'm trying to avoid making big community impacting decisions without running it by you guys and/or the moderators team first. The migration from XF 1.x to XF 2.x was a bit of a 'just pull the band-aid off quickly!' moment as there was a bit of pain involved for some, in particular with the styles, but, just like the band-aid, it had to be done and with members continuing to give their feedback I can continue working on seeking out solutions for member preferences.

 

[MoonMind]

Matt & I spoke via PM about this one and he's testing out an add-on that will be available to subscribers to allow ignoring specified forums & threads.

As far as I can see, the add-on works as advertised and allows for easy filtering should anyone wish for that. I've set the Marketplace sub-forums to "ignore"; so, I have no way of checking if I should see anything as long as I actually don't - though actually, I did a double-check, it's working.

The one thing I should mention is that the "ignore" function is only available in the lowest-level sub-forums. I'm fine with that - it's just something to be aware of. As it is, I wasn't able to ignore "Marketplace" as a whole. But I got what I wanted easy enough - kudos to Kevin for offering a solution this quickly.

btw. the Alerts list is a little different - if someone reacts to several posts in a thread in a row, this gets pulled together in a single Alert. But the rest looks as before - so maybe it should. We might as well get used to longer lists if it's too much fiddling ... I'm already experiencing a change in perception

M.

 

[theoldsmithy]

If I'm looking at the right specs, that's a resolution of 768x1024 (essentially the old 1024x769 standard but in portrait mode). At that resolution you should be seeing the main content full-screen with sidebar content shown below the main content. I'll keep that resolution in mind when testing the screen changes. Chrome on my desktop allows me to mimic different device resolutions pretty easy; it doesn't replicate the Safari browser or iOS but at a minimum I can see roughly the same layout you should be seeing.

I almost always use my iPad in landscape mode, actually. Then the sidebar is still on the RHS. In portrait mode it all seems a bit messed up and random to me.

 

[kyteflyer]

I hate that we no longer have an "Appreciate" icon. Instead, its been renamed "Friendly". What the....?

 

[Kevin]

I hate that we no longer have an "Appreciate" icon. Instead, its been renamed "Friendly". What the....?

 

[mike3996]

The medium theme has a tiny bug: in message composition box the highlight color is practically the same as the background color so it's hard to make edits.

As a general feedback, the new themes all look maybe a bit dull, flat, compared to the old. Couldn't say how one would improve them as flat is in the fashion these days. And also the medium theme could be a hint darker.

 

[Kevin]

One of the general consensus feedback items is that, for the most part, everybody prefers a simpler design with minimal items so I've been making a few tweaks. The new XF2 'look & feel', versus the XF1 'look & feel', can be pretty cluttered; the overall design is not something we chose, it's simply how the software is layed out in the current version.

As time goes on I'll continue making little tweaks to reduce the clutter a bit. For example, the horizontal bar that was showing in the posts below the post date & time is now gone and the avatars are squared again instead of being circular and the text descriptions in the member postbit area have been replaced with icons and... well, just little things that hopefully nobody is really noticing because "when you do things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.” (Bonus points for anybody who recognizes where that quote is from without searching for it!). Oh, and I fixed the 'white text on grey background' in the menu bar that was showing for IE users (IE? gggrrrrrr).

The medium theme has a tiny bug: in message composition box the highlight color is practically the same as the background color so it's hard to make edits.

Thanks, I'll put it on the To Do list.

As a general feedback, the new themes all look maybe a bit dull, flat, compared to the old. Couldn't say how one would improve them as flat is in the fashion these days. And also the medium theme could be a hint darker.

Which parts would you make darker?

 

[mike3996]

Appreciate the response!

Which parts would you make darker?

The background color of the theme currently sits at #c2c2c2. The bg of posts sits at #d4d4d4. These aren't so bad but PERSONALLY I'd go a little more towards dark theme. Subjective stuff, I know.

On a related note, would love an alternative "medium" theme, in tones of coffee-brown. Is there a way to design and pitch a theme?

 

[Kevin]

For the light style, which post footer do you guys/gals like better for how the "Reactions" are shown, with a different color background (like currently) or with no background?

I suspect I know which way this will go but figured I'd still check in first.

Current (different color background)...

Same post, no background for reactions in the footer...

 

[MoonMind]

I appreciate the light grey background, but frankly could live with both.

M.