Nikon Nikon teaser video for a new MILC...

KillRamsey

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2012
124
Hood River, OR
Kyle
I'll say this much...

If Nikon (and Canon, frankly) have had THIS MUCH time to sit back and watch Sony and Fuji do it, this much time to watch what works and doesn't work, to see what people will and won't pay for...

...and...

Their entire goal description with this project is pretty much "do the same thing, but for your own lenses," as opposed to "come out with some amazing leap forward in tech"...

...then if what they launch ISN'T really damned good, then I posit that they are a fundamentally broken company that doesn't deserve to stay in business. You've sat back and watched Sony and Fuji eat your lunch for 5+ years. Nobody gets that kind of head start.
 

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
124
I'll say this much...

If Nikon (and Canon, frankly) have had THIS MUCH time to sit back and watch Sony and Fuji do it, this much time to watch what works and doesn't work, to see what people will and won't pay for...

...and...

Their entire goal description with this project is pretty much "do the same thing, but for your own lenses," as opposed to "come out with some amazing leap forward in tech"...

...then if what they launch ISN'T really damned good, then I posit that they are a fundamentally broken company that doesn't deserve to stay in business. You've sat back and watched Sony and Fuji eat your lunch for 5+ years. Nobody gets that kind of head start.
This is a classic case study in the introduction of disruptive technology into a mature market. Market leaders rarely adopt the new technology first because they are already successful and risk averse. It takes upstarts and smaller players to experiment and help the technology evolve before the market leaders adopt the new tech whole-heartedly. Sometimes they are too late and fade while one of the upstarts rises to take their place. The price/performance curve comes into play too, as early adopters are willing to pay an innovators tax until the disruptive technology reaches price/performance parity. That's when the market leaders start to take the new tech more seriously. That's where we are, and Nikon and Canon are playing the game just as expected, the one wrinkle from the classic case study being the erosion of the lower end of the market due to phones.
 

Lightmancer

Super Moderator
Aug 13, 2011
164
Sunny Frimley
Bill Palmer
Tell you what I find disappointing. Digital has freed camera designers from many of the constraints of film, but we have seen no really new or innovative camera designs recently. Remember the Canon Epoca, the Yashica Samurai (which came in right and left-handed variants) or the Olympus "all in one" SLR that I forget the name of (and I had one) that had a convoluted z-shaped film path and looked like a Star Trek ray-gun? They were different, all were very ergonomic and pleasant to hold and use and all performed adequately to well.

What we have seen, and I am happy as a result, is a return to the rangefinder-style body, which I love. Viewfinder off to one corner, no central pentaprism hump. But that's more Back to the Future than Forward to the Stars...

So why does this new Nikon look like every other black blob of half-melted plastic? Where's the thought leadership, the innovation?
 

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
124
Tell you what I find disappointing. Digital has freed camera designers from many of the constraints of film, but we have seen no really new or innovative camera designs recently. Remember the Canon Epoca, the Yashica Samurai (which came in right and left-handed variants) or the Olympus "all in one" SLR that I forget the name of (and I had one) that had a convoluted z-shaped film path and looked like a Star Trek ray-gun? They were different, all were very ergonomic and pleasant to hold and use and all performed adequately to well.

What we have seen, and I am happy as a result, is a return to the rangefinder-style body, which I love. Viewfinder off to one corner, no central pentaprism hump. But that's more Back to the Future than Forward to the Stars...

So why does this new Nikon look like every other black blob of half-melted plastic? Where's the thought leadership, the innovation?
There's been a lot of innovation in the last ten years from unexpected places







 

Lightmancer

Super Moderator
Aug 13, 2011
164
Sunny Frimley
Bill Palmer
Good point, John, well made, but two of those are convergent products (the portable telephone and the drone - camera bolted to a telephone and camera bolted to a model aeroplane) and one is very specialist in its use (the Theta). The Go-Pro? I'd argue that there is nothing new about a small, go anywhere camera; consider the subminiature Minox or the Compass... I'd also argue that in ergonomic terms for the purpose of photography the portable telephone is counter-intuitive at best and a thumping great compromise at worst, with its pop-tart ergonomics. I always used to say that I would take one seriously as a photographic device when it had a tripod mount, a cable release socket and a viewfinder...

What I was thinking about was the fact that the design of mainstream (yes I know you can argue that by volume the portable telephone is now mainstream) devices have really not evolved. I also know that form follows function, but are we truly saying that basic camera design has peaked...?
 
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gordo

Veteran
Jul 6, 2017
104
Arizona
Gordon
For me, they're taking the "tease" too far. But the marketing is doing it's job - many comments and threads across the web with people discussing/ arguing about Nikon.

The X-H1 is, so far for me, the one MILC that fits my hand best. If, and I stress if, Nikon bests the X-H1 with regard to how it fits my hand and AF tracking performance, there is a possibility of going back to Nikon. I'd still keep the X100F.

And I still have my K-1 simply because for me, it feels "right" in my hand. So much so I don't really notice the weight. It's a joy for me to use. Much better feel than with any other camera I have used. Not sure a Nikon MILC can top that.
 

Lightmancer

Super Moderator
Aug 13, 2011
164
Sunny Frimley
Bill Palmer
There are a few standout cameras for me in the past that handled like a dream. One was the Contax RX, the other the F90X. I remember "upgrading" to the F100 and going back again a few months later.
 

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
124
Saw that - not a good profile image at all!
I think it's very deliberately saying three things:

  1. This is going to have a big viewfinder ("Don't worry DSLR shooters")
  2. This is going to have classic Nikon ergonomics, including a nice grip for big, serious lenses (">Sony")
  3. This is going to be very much a Nikon ("This ain't no EOS-M")

If I were I Nikon shooter, I'd be comforted. If I were a Sony shooter, I'd be intrigued. If I were a Canon shooter, I'd be jealous. But I'm none of those, I'm just poor ;)
 

Bruce McL

Regular
Dec 18, 2016
68
I think Nikon's main goal with the tease video and site is to convince people who are interested in buying Sony mirrorless right now to postpone their purchase.

I agree that this is a classic case of the big, successful established players in the market taking longer to react than the new, hungry little companies.

Sometimes, though, the big guys win by buying out the innovative little guys. I'm thinking of cell phone companies in the US in the 1990's.

As mentioned, the big unknown in the dedicated camera market is the phone camera. How good will it get, and what will people who grew up using it want (and expect) when moving up to a dedicated camera? Eventually, everyone buying a dedicated camera will have grown up using a phone camera.
 
Jan 31, 2011
164
Newcastle, Australia
Sue
Eventually, everyone buying a dedicated camera will have grown up using a phone camera.
And most of those won't want to move up. I have a few friends who wanted to get into photography but couldnt decide which camera they wanted, and as their phones were upgraded, found that they didnt really need a dedicated camera. Some already had P&S and when those died, did not replace them. Only three of my friends have stayed with interchangeable lenses and one has gone from a Canon DSLR to the Nikon P900... the others... phone cameras, and doing quite well with them, for the happy snaps that they do.
 

BrianS

Super Moderator
Apr 3, 2013
124
Four mounting prongs- like the M-Mount.

I hate the tease. Just announce the camera, give the specs, tell us what it costs. Save the advertising campaign, skip all the hype. Do not encrypt the metadata to lockout third part image processing software as they did on the Nikon D2x.
 

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
124
Four mounting prongs- like the M-Mount.

I hate the tease. Just announce the camera, give the specs, tell us what it costs. Save the advertising campaign, skip all the hype. Do not encrypt the metadata to lockout third part image processing software as they did on the Nikon D2x.
When you take a photo with the new Nikon, you'll have to wait a whole month before it writes the file to your SD card...
 

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