Now that Adobe is taking its apps to online only...

Lawrence A.

Hall of Famer
Nov 8, 2012
124
New Mexico
Larry
Things change. I was resistant to CD's too, and still think the change was forced on consumers; in fact companies had to simply stop making LPs in order to get people to make the change. I still have several thousand LP's in the house and only a couple of hundred CD's. A mid fifties monaural Lp of Carlos Montoya sounds like there is a guitar in the room. I have not had that experience with CD.

Anway, I suppose despite my rants to the contrary, if it all goes Cloud, I'll have to go there too -- as long as the software resides on my computer. I will not use internet based software. The National Security State has made a dragnet of anything online, claiming one has no "reasonable expectation to privacy" there, including one's emails. I want as little as possible of my activities that are not internet specific to be traceable on the web.
 

olli

Super Moderator Emeritus
Sep 28, 2010
123
Sofia, Bulgaria
olli
Adobe Creative Cloud FAQ: 'Other desktop tools, such as Adobe Acrobat® and Photoshop Lightroom®, continue to be available outside Creative Cloud.'

Adobe Lightroom Journal: Lightroom and the Creative Cloud

Adobe rep on DPReview: Photoshop CC: Adobe responds to reaction: Digital Photography Review

Summary: Lightroom will continue to be available for purchase and will also be available via CC for subscription. Lightroom is of a number of Adobe products that will be available for purchase (Adobe Acrobat is another.)

Key quote from the DPReview article: We don't have plans to make Lightroom a subscription-only option but we do envision added functionality for the CC version of Lightroom.

Key concern: If this means that LR on CC gets updated features immediately and a purchased version of LR only gets these on a planned release cycle I'm okay with that. On the other hand if this means that LR on CC becomes the 'professional' version of LR and the purchased version becomes a dumbed down version, a Lightroom 'lite' I'm not okay with that. I will need more clarification on what this functionality is before spending any more on Lightroom on either model.

I hope that Phase One and DXO will see an opportunity here to market Capture One and DXO Optics to registered LR users and come up with some good deals.
 

Biro

Super Moderator
Aug 7, 2011
124
Jersey Shore
Steve
Here is professional Kirk Tuck's take on this from his Visual Science Lab site. He's a lot more sanguine about it than I am. But, for professionals, his argument makes sense.

The Visual Science Lab / Kirk Tuck: The Great Adobe Creative Cloud Furor. Or, "How I learned to love dis-attachment and get on with my creative life."

Now, remember, Lightroom is still available has it always has been. And, for most hobbyists and amateurs, it's probably most of what we need. If Adobe applies the same business model to LR, I think most of us will find an alternative. And I suspect it won't take all that long for a workble alternative to PS to appear.
 

Isoterica

Hall of Famer
Dec 6, 2011
123
^ the thing is that the yearly subscription costs more than buying an all-new version once every year and a half would cost - and you don't have the choice to skip a generation or 2 if they don't offer enough improvement for you.
As I stated above, I was using Elements 2 until recently. I don't require the latest versions, the newest brush tweak or contrast slider. I guess I just don't have that urgency as a hobbyist. I learn something and I try to master it and if it was good enough three months ago, I think-- why shouldn't it be now. With Elements 2 a computer upgrade made it unsuable and thus it was necessary to get a newer version. The only time I recently thought about -having- to update recently with the new GR coming out, and whether or not one would be able to process the raw files properly. My two cents was in relation to me though it might apply to some others-- or maybe not.

For me, it has nothing to do with price. Why should I have to have my software run thru Adobe's servers? If I'm a pro, why should I have to risk my livelihood to the possibility - likely, inevitability - that there will be either a technical glitch or a deliberate, malicious attack that comes downstream from Adobe to my computer? What happens when there's a billing error? What happens, because Adobe is known for poor customer support?

It's a slippery slope, and once folks allow a little, the corporations take a lot.
And you're right. I guess overall I haven't done my homework as to how it all works, I was just more impressed with the ability to constantly improve on the software function. I am not heavily knowledgeable beyond my own little budget limited sphere here. I didn't mean to incite anyone by stating my own perspective on it. It is a slippery slope and it might eventually effect the average consumer too but unfortunately I'm not sure there is a lot we can do about it either. My solution to social networking sites and their liberal permissions to use member work has been not to post anything anywhere. But yes a foot in the door often means the entity will stomp you very soon.

Things change. I was resistant to CD's too, and still think the change was forced on consumers; in fact companies had so simply stop making LPs in order to get people to make the change. I still have several thousand LP's in the house and only a couple of hundred CD's. A mid fifties monaural Lp of Carlos Montoya sounds like there is a guitar in the room. I have not had that experience with CD.

Anway, I suppose despite my rants to the contrary, if it all goes Cloud, I'll have to go there too -- as long as the software resides on my computer. I will not use internet based software. The National Security State has made a dragnet of anything online, claiming one has no "reasonable expectation to privacy" there, including one's emails. I want as little as possible of my activities that are not internet specific to be traceable on the web.
Same here I thought they were a novelty item, I was still in a record club at the time. It's the same with being forced into digital cameras or electronic banking. I remember being in banking and pushing the then new Debit card on customers as a convenience- it's likely the predecessor to a cashless society. And I am pretty discreet online short of.. signing off permanently :) That whole Facebook post where you're going and what you're eating thing just leaves me baffled.
 
Jan 31, 2011
164
Newcastle, Australia
Sue
I don't need latest and greatest either. The only thing that persuaded me to jump from CS3 to CS5 was the addition of "content aware" healing. The rest, I could live without.

I'm still using CS5 and will continue to do so, recognising that I'll be left behind. I can't afford to get 6 (but wasn't that impressed when I downloaded the trial/beta some time ago, so the point is a bit moot) and as a hobbyist with very limited means, am most definitely not in a position to subscribe to the Adobe Cloud thing.

For Mac users... Acorn is a nice alternative. Lots of RAW processing options, and thankfully all my cameras are supported. Its not as extensive as Photoshop/ACR but it seems to have most of what I need. I've requested an additional option for "edit in" so we can open the Nik stuff from inside the program. Fingers crossed. If that happens, I'll likely make the switch permanently.
 

Yeats

All-Pro
Jul 31, 2012
123
New Jersey, USA
Chris
And you're right. I guess overall I haven't done my homework as to how it all works, I was just more impressed with the ability to constantly improve on the software function. I am not heavily knowledgeable beyond my own little budget limited sphere here. I didn't mean to incite anyone by stating my own perspective on it. It is a slippery slope and it might eventually effect the average consumer too but unfortunately I'm not sure there is a lot we can do about it either. My solution to social networking sites and their liberal permissions to use member work has been not to post anything anywhere. But yes a foot in the door often means the entity will stomp you very soon.
I apologize if I came across as overly vehement; that wasn't my intention. But in the nearly 2 decades I've been a computer tech, I've come across numerous Windows systems that were borked by forced MS updates, a Mac where the user lost all his data from an OSX upgrade, computers that were caught in endless loops of BSODs from anti-virus updates...

A quick Internet search of "Simcity debacle" will definitely clue anyone in on the potential for disaster when software is dependent on a vendor's servers(*). And given the seemingly endless number of gaffes and security holes involved with Adobe Flash, I don't have a high amount of confidence in them.

* admittedly, Adobe will not require the amount of "calling home" that Simcity does, but still...
 

Isoterica

Hall of Famer
Dec 6, 2011
123
It was a bit snappy, yes, but I really do understand where you're coming from. I was -trying- to be positive because a lot of times I feel like I come off as the devil's advocate, my ways can be so old fashioned or set. A lot is changing, things I didn't consider would change in the way businesses and society in general conducts itself. Anyway, I would greatly prefer to keep all my own things backed up for my own privacy and security and I don't want another entity accessing my work, even as novice, because I am working on it on their server. I avoid most social media sites because they have such a pro-them policy-- that I'm probably missing out on the interactive possibilities and no one emails me my receipts but online vendors I order from. So before I tangent, no harm done okay? Usually when someone steps out with that kind of vehemence it's worth listening to them-- they just might have a useful perspective on something. And if they don't then telling them to buzz off works :D
 

Tdp

All-Pro
Feb 15, 2019
36
Old way: I need/want Photoshop, I buy it. I buy a book for my version, I learn how to use the software. When a new version comes out I may or may not buy an upgrade, depends on if I need it or want it. Upgrades cost much less then the initial software buy. I can log onto Adobe's site and see my licenses and re-download the software if I need it. I am in control of what I buy, when I buy it, when I do minor updates and when I purchase version updates.

New way: If I need/want Photoshop I have to pay every month to use it. I have to be online at certain intervals so Adobe can confirm my membership or the software will stop working. Minor and major updates occur at Adobe's schedule. I am not in control of the software I have rented, the update schedules, monthly price increases or future hardware/OS requirements.


I am just a hobbyist photographer. I have a small stack of Adobe licenses in my account and can even remember buying PS2 back in the day. I've bought 6 or 7 Kelby books on PS and LR. I'm learning that me, and folks like me are not the demographic Adobe cares about anymore. Small money, no big deal to them. It is a shame because they make great software.

While the current plan from Adobe is to not include Lightroom in their new monthly subscription requirement, LR and PS go hand in hand for many people's workflow to it is easy to assume one day LR will be rental only as well. Due to that, it will be impossible for me to suggest LR as "required software" for up and coming hobbyist photographers asking for advise on gear and software - something I did all the time. Over the years, I've told numerous folks to d/l the demo version of LR, go get the latest Kelby book and follow along. Every person I have told ended up buying LR because it is that useful....and Scott's books as well. Now while none of this is Kelby's fault, he is stuck in the Adobe boat. I remember a posting Scott did once online a few years ago referencing this new proposed rental policy and how he was against it.

Again that is small money, me and the folks I know are just doing this for fun - for enjoyment. For pros the price of doing business is the price of doing business and they won't blink an eye at a monthly subscription for the software they require for work. It is a shame, serious amateurs like myself like access to the same tools the pros use, but (for me) I can't see wasting money on a monthly subscription merely to have real-time updates to zero day software. That is a tool I do not need.

- tdp
 

Yeats

All-Pro
Jul 31, 2012
123
New Jersey, USA
Chris
I'm fortunate, I've been able to purchase some software at prices even below academic discounts, due to my connections in the technology & service sector - I can't afford Photoshop at retail. I wish I could get along with Lightroom, but I just don't... when the time comes, I'll simply move to another software.
 

BillN

Hall of Famer
Aug 25, 2010
123
S W France
Bill
Their products are good - very good
In my experience their Customer Service stinks
Buy the product, it works, you are in control and no need to contact Adobe unless really necessary

New system - your contact with Adobe becomes very regular - not for me, I have spent hours on three occasions in the past three years trying to get them to resolve simple matters - I am a fan of India - but not much really, (Indian Call Centres?), - they would rather ask you your name, your email address, your date of birth several times rather than listen to your problem - they then pass you onto another dept who again are more interested in your name and email address than your question..... eventually, I say eventually you may get put through to someone who can help.

I have an outstanding issue with them, I called then last week to upgrade LR ........ one of the first things the sales lady mentioned, (and it is now only beginning to make sense), was "I can sell you this "on the Cloud"" and that was when I mentioned an upgrade to LR ........ it turns out that the sales person was clueless in that she sold me an upgrade for LR3.6 to LR5 ....... which apparently does not exist ...... but I have their invoice to prove it ....... after several days I am still waiting for the "download" or indeed a resolution to the problems ...... they were however, quick to take my credit card details and money ......... buggers

I would think that they will be planning a "premium" telephone rate number scam to go with their new "operating system"

Have Adobe been bought by Rupert Murdoch?
 

Yeats

All-Pro
Jul 31, 2012
123
New Jersey, USA
Chris
I had a brief online chat with an Adobe rep this morning.

One moment please while we route your chat to a representative.

All representatives are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. A representative will be with you shortly.

Thank you for contacting Adobe Sales. My name is Pete. How may I help you today?

Pete: Hi, may I have your first name please?

Chris: Hi, Pete, my name is Chris.

Pete: Greetings Chris.

Pete: How may I help you with your purchase today?

Chris: Well, I have a question about the upcoming CC Suite.

Pete: Please go ahead.

Chris: From what I've read, Adobe will provide automatic updates as features, bug fixes, etc. are rolled out. Is this correct?

Pete: Let me check the information for you.

Chris: OK, thanks.

Pete: You can subscribe to Creative Cloud now and there's no need to upgrade the software again anymore.

Pete: If any new software is going to release, you'll get automatic updates with no additional cost, which is a great option.

Chris: OK, then my core question is: Are these "automatic updates" mandatory? Will we be notified of an update and then be given the

option of installing it, or will the update be silently installed in teh background? This is critical information for us due to the

mission-critical nature of some of our work.

Pete: In that case you will get a email notification regarding the installation. If you wish you can install the program and if you

don't you can skip it.

Pete: Just curious to know, how soon would you like to use the software?

Chris: Probably not until next year, we're not really primed for web-based collaboration yet.

Chris: Thanks for that info, it's good for us to know.

Pete: Is there anything else I can help you with?

Chris: Nope, that's it. Thank you so much.
 

Judderman62

Veteran
Mar 24, 2013
43
Greater Manchester, UK
Mike
I use Lightroom, which is also going to stay in the old model. It also organizes all my photos and I personally love it. Most of what Photoshop does I don't need, and most of what I need, Lightroom does. So for me nothing changes.

Truth be told: I don't like Photoshop. Way too complicated and it always felt like it was getting in the way of my workflow in a way Lightroom doesn't. To create a sort of metaphor: I would work Photoshop, but I play Lightroom. I much prefer playing to working, lol.
I'm with the gentleman above :)
 

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