Fuji PayPal question...

[ean10775]

Theoretically, if I sell an item locally and the buyer pays me with a person to person transfer from their PayPal balance, is there any way for them to rescind/chargeback that payment at a later date?

 

[entropic remnants]

What is a person-to-person transfer? There are only two classifications of payments really: merchandise/services and gift.

They can file a buyer protection claim in some cases. Regular paypal (as in merchandise sales) provides various "protections" and claims processes for both buyers and sellers. They can submit a claim for a refund and if paypal decides it's warranted you will get a chargeback. That's in the terms you agree to when you use paypal I believe.

If you send money unlawfully as a gift, no one is protected, and there might be problems if the buyer does try to make a claim as it highlights that it was not a gift at all.

It really doesn't matter if the buyer is local or far away: the same terms apply.

 

[ean10775]

Thanks for the info. Actually it does matter for the seller though - if you sell locally and accept PayPal as payment, even if its merchandise/services and pay the 2.9% + $.30, there is no buyer protection at all. If the seller is far away and you ship the item you've got a tracking number as proof and therefore the protection applies. At least that's how I understand it from PayPal's website. I guess what I'm referring to is the PayPal gift option, although they still have sections on their website that refer to transferring money to friends/family rather than call it PayPal Gift.

 

[entropic remnants]

Thanks for the info. Actually it does matter for the seller though - if you sell locally and accept PayPal as payment, even if its merchandise/services and pay the 2.9% + $.30, there is no buyer protection at all. If the seller is far away and you ship the item you've got a tracking number as proof and therefore the protection applies. At least that's how I understand it from PayPal's website. I guess what I'm referring to is the PayPal gift option, although they still have sections on their website that refer to transferring money to friends/family rather than call it PayPal Gift.

Yes, I think they've changed the language over time to the friends/family thing. We've used it to transfer money to our adult children when they need help with a down payment or whatever so it is useful.

 

[demiro]

Eric, if I were selling something locally face-to-face I'd want cash. PayPal Gift maybe, but cash makes way more sense. I've heard of Gift payments being rescinded because buyer/gift giver claimed their account was hacked.

And with standard non-gift PayPal I think you are opening yourself up to a scam because you will lack any evidence of shipping, as you point out.

 

[Luckypenguin]

I wouldn't accept a Paypal payment if someone wants to pick up an item in person. It might be unlikely to happen, but you are left with no proof of having "shipped" the item if the buyer makes a false claim that they never received the item. I've never used the gift option but because it is not meant to be used for any kind of transaction it won't be subject to Paypal claims, but of course in this case you'd be using it under false premises. I always insisted on cash for face-to-face sales.

Whenever I've sold an item via auction and I see that the winner is from my city I always dread the "can I come and pick it up" message that normally follows.

 

[bobmielke]

I recently sold my Nikon D7000 with 5 lenses and had the buyer put my money in my Paypal account befor he came to my apartment to pick up the gear. I've sold a D90 a few years ago using Paypal and shipped it to a forum member. I trust Paypal to make all this work. Short of selling locally for cash Paypal is the most secure method of dealing with sales to strangers. It's safe for both parties.

 

[ean10775]

I recently sold my Nikon D7000 with 5 lenses and had the buyer put my money in my Paypal account befor he came to my apartment to pick up the gear. I've sold a D90 a few years ago using Paypal and shipped it to a forum member. I trust Paypal to make all this work. Short of selling locally for cash Paypal is the most secure method of dealing with sales to strangers. It's safe for both parties.

Thanks Bob - I agree that next to cash PayPal is the safest way to go, but as far as the protections that are offered to the seller, there simply aren't any at all if you sell locally since you don't have a tracking number to prove you shipped the goods.

That said, after speaking with the buyer on the phone, doing a little web research and finding him on LinkedIn, and then meeting him in person, I felt comfortable enough with the transaction to go through with it. I explained my concerns to him and to mitigate my risk a little bit I asked if I could photograph him holding the camera. It won't hold any weight with PayPal should things go wrong since it was a gift payment, but since I currently have all my camera equipment insured on its own policy and the serial numbers filed with my insurer, if he claimed his account was hacked, that it wasn't him that sent me the money and PayPal withdraws the funds from my account down the line, I would have the email communication between us showing his interest in purchasing it, the initial PayPal transaction sending me the money at effectively the same time the photo was taken of him with the camera. Legally I'm sure it sure it all means nothing, but at least it would be a little hard to claim that it wasn't him that authorized the payment to me seeing that I could prove I was with him at the time it happened. I would at least make an attempt to file a police report for theft or fraud or something.

I'll report back if I have any problems, but I really don't anticipate that there will be. I appreciate everyone's advice/feedback.

 

[jloden]

Just in case anyone else finds this or was curious like I was, Paypal does specifically state on the Seller Protection page that a transaction does NOT quality if you deliver in person or otherwise have no proof of shipping:

PayPal Seller Protection for Merchants – PayPal US

"For all transactions, keep proof of shipment and delivery that can be tracked online. If your buyer picks the item up in person, or you can't provide traceable proof of delivery, your transaction won’t qualify."

References:

PayPal Seller Protection for Merchants – PayPal US

PayPal Seller Protection for Merchants – PayPal US - ("Why doesn't Seller Protection cover deliveries made in person, or intangible goods (such as digital goods or services)?"

 

[ean10775]

^ Which honestly, makes a lot of sense. I don't see how PayPal could underwrite a face to face transaction short of some kind of digital/biometric signature using a smartphone/tablet or some other authentication technology above and beyond username/password.

 

[jloden]

^ Which honestly, makes a lot of sense. I don't see how PayPal could underwrite a face to face transaction short of some kind of digital/biometric signature using a smartphone/tablet or some other authentication technology above and beyond username/password.

Which apparently they also do, but it looks like it's a separate service geared toward small business and merchant payments in person using mobile devices:

Credit Card Reader | PayPal Zettle Card Machine | PayPal US

 

[Luckypenguin]

Which apparently they also do, but it looks like it's a separate service geared toward small business and merchant payments in person using mobile devices:

Credit Card Reader | PayPal Zettle Card Machine | PayPal US

That's right, Paypal is trying to expand into the area of retail transactions using phone apps, but as a simple private seller making a face-to-face sale I still wouldn't risk it.

 

[ean10775]

Which apparently they also do, but it looks like it's a separate service geared toward small business and merchant payments in person using mobile devices:

Credit Card Reader | PayPal Zettle Card Machine | PayPal US

Although, its unclear as to whether or not the seller still has no protection (since the good are being delivered locally) although it would be harder for the cardholder to claim the card use was unauthorized (they still could, however, simply claim their card had been stolen). Basically, all these protections are well and good, but if someone is really hell bent on ripping you off, there will always be ways that they can.

 

[jloden]

Although, its unclear as to whether or not the seller still has no protection (since the good are being delivered locally) although it would be harder for the cardholder to claim the card use was unauthorized (they still could, however, simply claim their card had been stolen). Basically, all these protections are well and good, but if someone is really hell bent on ripping you off, there will always be ways that they can.

Pretty much sums it up

 

[demiro]

Although, its unclear as to whether or not the seller still has no protection (since the good are being delivered locally) although it would be harder for the cardholder to claim the card use was unauthorized (they still could, however, simply claim their card had been stolen). Basically, all these protections are well and good, but if someone is really hell bent on ripping you off, there will always be ways that they can.

That's a fact. So it is critical to do your research, as best you can, before the deal is made, then use best available option for the transaction.

I sold something on Craigslist yesterday for cash, so pretty straightforward deal. But we couldn't make a meeting time work, so I drove to the buyers location over lunch (20 min from my house). He gave me an address at a house he was working on. So I follow the GPS, and the last five miles are just further and further into deeper and darker woods. PayPal and the USPS were looking pretty good at that point. No problem, of course, just an overactive imagination.

 

[Hyubie]

As a seller of course Cash is king, but as a buyer I like the protection offered by Paypal (than nothing at all). So just to protect both sides, I usually prefer Paypal - but if it is the buyer who insists on cash, who am I to argue?