Feedback Photo gallery forums too scattered!

Kevin

Code Monkey 🐒
Nov 3, 2018
Pennsylvania, USA
But anyhow, it seems I'm fighting a losing battle here. Probably time to move on ...
Nope, not a losing battle. Giant "mega threads" have their purposes for some things but they should be the exception and not the norm.
We will always take everyone’s views into consideration. And work to find the best comprises for everyone. Ultimately it will be @Kevin’s decision. But he has always taken everyone’s concerns into consideration.
I'm reading all of the feedback and trying to think of compromises. What's the old saying about negotiations, that if nobody is totally happy with the results then it is a success. :D
Agreed, and perhaps slightly disagreed. Should we establish a whole new subforum for "photographs taken while intoxicated" or "photographs taken while having headache" or even "photographs that the photographer feels are going to hit big on the instagrams and make them a six-figure Ad contract"

I certainly see that people LOVE that strolling thing but I just don't see (or care to see) what the intentions really have to do with the end result. It's probably because I don't pay attention to that myself, never taken this thing very seriously.
How about "photographs taken by people who don't know jack" -- Heck, that could be my own personal forum! 🤣
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
Switzerland
Matt
Okay, folks, in order to show willing and take the edge off my previous, perhaps overstated wrath: If it helps, I can - given there's a sufficiently concise plan and some feedback loop in place - offer my services to temporarily(!) help out exclusively with moving threads around and merging them. If we can agree that subject matter should always have presedence, that'd make a very decent starting point. I've done things like that before with some success. However, I want to be able to discuss things if there's any kind of doubt or risk of stepping onto anyone's toes. It's one thing to merge older, defunct threads into current ones, but a completely different matter to close live threads and open up new follow-up ones; I wouldn't want to have to do such a thing if not specifically asked (or instructed) to. @Kevin and all moderators (and all concerned): Tell me if that's acceptable.

As for the somewhat controversial process/technique-centric threads: There's nothing to prevent us from collecting them as such, maybe even in their own section. For some people (like me), states, modes and methodes are as important as (just to mention it in passing) gear. In some cases, the way in which an image was produced makes it work altogether. I handle my usual "stroll" images differently compared to what I produce when I go out with a specific purpose (and gear to match). But then again, I fully accept that for the viewer, this might not be relevant enough to be of major concern (as some of the comments in this thread make clear). Hence my suggestion to prioritise subject matter.

I'm also still pondering the "collective" threads (or "megathreads") as well. I'm not a friend of them in general (as should have become blindingly obvious by now), but on the other hand, the daily threads during challenges usually work really well (and the 10-day threads in January have done so, too), so there *is* a way to make such eclectic threads run smoothly and productively. I just fear a monthly catch-all thread (albeit way better than an unlimited one) is prone to turning into a rather uninspired collection of quick posts ... so posting there could mean your image becoming nothing but a spark in the fireworks, so to speak.

A thought: Can we take @Bobby Tingle's idea further and create something like a "best efforts" stream per month - a thread where people post more carefully curated stuff that is impressive in its own right, no matter what genre/technique/subject matter? I could certainly live with that (even though I'd only rarely manage to post there - but I'm okay with that). I admit that this wouldn't solve the problem of having to choose categorised threads for most images, though ... Anyhow, if we could manage to provide enhanced visibility for that thread, it might incite people to post there as often as possible.

Or we take @Kevin's last tongue-in-cheek remark and create a "What I saw today ..." thread (a new one each month). It doesn't get much more low-key than that ... but it can still be fun, in a way I think the "Show: Random Picture Thread!!!" (note the three exclamation marks) was intended to turn out; we may have misunderstood or misused that one anyway (or some of us might have - me included).

M.
 

Ad Dieleman

Top Veteran
Oct 20, 2012
The Netherlands
Ad Dieleman
For getting the proverbial ball rolling, how about...
  • Eliminate Herman's Genres dedicated forum - As mentioned, Herman has not been an active member for quite some time and the threads can be moved into their more subject specific counterparts.
  • Eliminate Words/No Words dedicated forum - I have never come across a totally negative posting by any of our community members; if this situation ever does come up, or if somebody reports a post, it's something the volunteer moderators can take a look at.
  • Eliminate Photo Critique dedicated forum - There is a "For Critique" thread prefix that is available when creating new threads. Anybody seeking actual critique can just post in the appropriate subject specific forums and use the thread prefix to indicate that they are actively seeking feedback.
Lots of interesting and sometimes conflicting views in this thread. @Kevin your proposals sound good to me, would already clear up a lot of the clutter. I'll leave it up to all the people here with more balanced and well-thought-through ideas than mine to bring this to a good end.
The "Latest Activity" screen is for all members activity so the "News Feed" screen is the place to take advantage of following people.
That helps a bit already.
 
Dec 31, 2013
Louisville, Ky
Also, I think we should start putting image threads which aren’t specifically showing some aspect about a particular piece of gear out of the gear specific forums. There are a lot of image threads in the gear specific forums which are there because they were shot with that brand, not because the images are showing something specific to gear from that brand. IE, iso noise, sharpness, dynamic range, or any of the technical characteristics about the gear being used.
 
Apr 2, 2018
I think closing some of the older and perhaps currently inactive threads is a safe thing to do. Nothing is lost but if someone were to post something in such a thread, would find out that they have to find a new home to their pic.

But then again, I fully accept that for the viewer, this might not be relevant enough to be of major concern (as some of the comments in this thread make clear). Hence my suggestion to prioritise subject matter.
Please consider my comments about Stroll photography as being offtopic, nonpertinent to this discussion at hand. :) I wasn't trying to make a case for limiting or otherwise "handling" such threads in any manner other than how they are currently handled.

I think if we first clean up what Kevin proposed, get the ball rolling, we will gain tremendous clarity on what (if anything) further needs to be done. I predict that that'll be it -- with this reorg every "relevant" thread will find itself handily from the existing forums.
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
Switzerland
Matt
@Bobby Tingle I'm a bit wary about closing a "majority" of threads - as it is, dormant threads don't get a lot of views, if at all, whereas posting to a thread that has existed for a long time can work as an incentive to browse its contents. But if your suggestion targets mainly dormant and/or single-post threads by closing and (possibly) merging/collecting them, I'm all for it. This alone would clear up things no end. As for pretty active threads, there should be a transition period - or transition post ("continued from ..." or something) to built a bridge into the new thread.

As for decluttering the gear forums: Yes, yes, yes. I've always been a bit dismayed about isolated content anyway - which is inevitable if image threads get placed in gear sections.

As for prioritising subject matter: If more people want to get rid of the "Stroll photography" section, I can see a merit in placing it in the "Travel" or even, if that helps, the "Street and Documentary" section (I can adjust). I see the point, but I'd like to keep the label around somewhere ...

M.
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
Switzerland
Matt
Please consider my comments about Stroll photography as being offtopic, nonpertinent to this discussion at hand. :) I wasn't trying to make a case for limiting or otherwise "handling" such threads in any manner other than how they are currently handled.
Thanks for that - as I have indicated, I seem to have swallowed your initial propositions the wrong way (as we say around here), so I'm glad you don't hold that against me.

After thinking some more about this, a clear focus would certainly help, and @Kevin's ideas *are* a great starting point. btw. I'm considering the "Stroll" photography thing a valid discussion still because it sheds some light on a couple of issues that aren't hard to overcome. Concepts can be important - but a good image is a good image, and it shows what it shows, so in the end, that's what counts the most. If somehting only works within a paradigm, then that's alright too - but should be marked as such (I looked at the "Impressionist" thread yesterday - interesting, diverse, just not for me; and that's absolutely fine).

I think the clean-up will solve most problems, as you say - and indicate what else needs to be done. I think some - short and simple - guidelines as to "what goes where" can help as well in the mid-term. We've always had sort of a charter (or a code of conduct) on other boards; it's remarkable that we've never even thought we needed one on this board (that's a big acknowledgement to the work of the moderators and administrators!), but in terms of placing your posts, it might help to get some hints.

M.
 

Ad Dieleman

Top Veteran
Oct 20, 2012
The Netherlands
Ad Dieleman
@Bobby Tingle I'm a bit wary about closing a "majority" of threads - as it is, dormant threads don't get a lot of views, if at all, whereas posting to a thread that has existed for a long time can work as an incentive to browse its contents. But if your suggestion targets mainly dormant and/or single-post threads by closing and (possibly) merging/collecting them, I'm all for it. This alone would clear up things no end. As for pretty active threads, there should be a transition period - or transition post ("continued from ..." or something) to built a bridge into the new thread.

As for decluttering the gear forums: Yes, yes, yes. I've always been a bit dismayed about isolated content anyway - which is inevitable if image threads get placed in gear sections.

As for prioritising subject matter: If more people want to get rid of the "Stroll photography" section, I can see a merit in placing it in the "Travel" or even, if that helps, the "Street and Documentary" section (I can adjust). I see the point, but I'd like to keep the label around somewhere ...

M.
As an avid user of the Seen while strolling...walking and wandering outside thread in the Stroll Photography forum, I don't see a problem if this thread is placed in an other forum. Street and Documentary to me seems more appropriate than Travel, at least a few members seem to stroll close to home often (like me). But to be honest, I don't have strong feelings about where some threads are.
 

aKilter

Top Veteran
Dec 7, 2012
David
Matt(MoonMind), you’re not alone! I tend to agree with you and don’t want to see just a couple of “mega threads”....in other words a photo dump. The Random Photo thread serves that purpose nicely. For everything else, I still want to see threads that have a specific topic.

Something I don’t like, is when someone “dumps” 15 or 20 photos in a thread. There should be a limit and it should be enforced. I’ve always thought 10 photos, is more than sufficient. If you need to post more than that....start your own thread. Btw, that doesn’t mean posting 10 photos, then another 10 photos, etc. If this occurs, they should all be deleted.

Rant off...
 

Kevin

Code Monkey 🐒
Nov 3, 2018
Pennsylvania, USA
Some quick changes as we're talking...
  • The forum previously named "Photography Techniques, Tips & Philosophy" has been renamed to "Photography Chat" with the idea being that this will the catch-all forum for threads related to photography & cameras but there isn't enough activity of the subject type to warrant to their own dedicated forum. If the volume of a particular subject or thread type increases then we can break out the threads then.
    • Additional thread "prefixes" can be added as needed/wanted to help indicate the thread type. Prefixes aren't required but by using them it does help gauge how many threads are being created for a particular subject type and will make it easier to move those threads in the future if need be.
    • Looking for general help? Post here. Looking for feedback? Post here. Looking for advice? Post here. Want to share some tips or your personal techniques? Post here.
    • Looking to talk about something related to either "photography" or "cameras" and not sure where else to post it? Post here.
  • The forum previously named "Photo Critique" has been removed. For now the threads in the forum have been moved to Photography Chat with the prefix of "Critique Wanted".
  • The forum previously named "Photo News and Rumors" has been removed. For now the threads in the forum have been moved to Photography Chat with the prefix "News / Rumors".
Looking at the "Hermans' Genres" and "Words/No Words" forums, there's a lot of stuff in there that is a bit of just miscellaneous rather than a particular topic/subject and, honestly, I'm not sure if I'm the best judge to determine where some of those threads should be moved to. I'll do my best but if anybody is following or participating in a particular thread and has a suggestion where it should be moved to, please feel free to let me know.

OK, why do we have a dedicated "Color" forum? I can understand the dedicated B&W forum but a dedicated "color" forum? I really wish my predecessors had added some descriptions to all of the forums! :D

As part of this round of cleanup no threads will be "closed", merged with other existing threads, or removed from public view. The only exception are a couple of threads that, after re-organizing, no long serve a purpose. For example, a 'sticky' thread describing the "Words/No Words" forum no longer makes sense after the threads are moved out of there and would likely just confuse a future visitor so threads like that will be moved to The Crypt (a forum the volunteer moderators have access to for threads moved out of public view). The scope of this round of cleanup will be to reduce the number of forums as I agree entirely with the sentiment that there are too many; we just need to work out which ones should be kept or renamed.

Should "Image Quest" be moved under "Photo Challenges"? Maybe create a new "Image Quest" thread prefix and move the threads into Photo Challenges with the new prefix?

While we work on this I've turned on the option to show the forum descriptions when viewing the https://cameraderie.org/forums/ page. Please give me suggestions for them, especially the empty ones!
 

Kevin

Code Monkey 🐒
Nov 3, 2018
Pennsylvania, USA
I'm in the office today (I know, I know, Kevin's is actually working! 😲 ) so I'm keeping up best I can...

For "Stroll Photography", going back to 2012 there has been only 134 threads created in that forum but the general thread has been recently active. From reading the last few posts it sounds like it'll be acceptable to move those threads somewhere else as long as they can be easily identified. At the moment I'm thinking we create a new thread prefix named "Stroll" or "Strolling" or something similar (what other word would work? 🤔) and then move the threads to the 'Street and Documentary' forum. I fully understand the type of photography being described and captured but, really, I think it works better as being a sub-category of 'Street and Documentary' then being a dedicated forum.
 

Kevin

Code Monkey 🐒
Nov 3, 2018
Pennsylvania, USA
LOL I don’t know what you guys are on but when you are finished here can you get started on my spare room? It needs decluttered too! It must be spring somewhere!
Usually coffee but lately I've been starting to drink Coke Energy Zero; I think I prefer my coffee but the cans of Coke Energy Zero are easier in the office. 🤣
 

Briar

All-Pro
Oct 27, 2010
Scotland
Karen
Hmmm not heard of Coke Energy Zero. When it comes to the weekends I think I need some of that. Of course a splash of sunshine instead might do the trick.

I like the idea of a daily thread or monthly one. It’s one of the things I like about the single in challenges as no matter what our shooting style we all throw it all in the one pot to share every day. When pics are scattered all over the place I tend to miss them because the headings don’t always encourage me to look.
 

Biro

Hall of Famer
Aug 7, 2011
Jersey Shore
Steve
Kevin has proposed eliminating three dedicated forums. I suggest we try that and stop there for a while. Let’s see if most of us are happy with the results. Let’s take another look/poll, say, six months after making those changes. I stress caution because it doesn’t take much to mess things up.
 

Kevin

Code Monkey 🐒
Nov 3, 2018
Pennsylvania, USA
Hmmm not heard of Coke Energy Zero. When it comes to the weekends I think I need some of that. Of course a splash of sunshine instead might do the trick.
It might not have hit your part of the world yet or might have a different name; here in the US I know that different regions are being staggered in their marketing. Essentially Coca-Cola is going after the Red Bull market with a version of an 'energy drink' that tastes more like regular Coke then the ultra sweet stuff of other brands.

I like the idea of a daily thread or monthly one. It’s one of the things I like about the single in challenges as no matter what our shooting style we all throw it all in the one pot to share every day. When pics are scattered all over the place I tend to miss them because the headings don’t always encourage me to look.
Same with me as well, it's why the posts where I'm tagged tend to get my attention first when responding to stuff. The idea of organizing daily/weekly/monthly challenges may be worthy of it's own suggestion thread for discussion as it is definitely something that will be followed-up on.
 
Nov 11, 2011
Milwaukee, WI USA
Luke
FWIW, The last monthly challenge was one that I did not participate in as a photographer. But I absolutely LOVED the lengthy threads. I felt like those 3 threads best represented the individual and collective greatness of the community that hangs out here.

I understand the merit (and use of) individual themed forums, but I also love the long-running ones. When I see a new thread with a title that leads me to believe that it will be a singular image or a pair of images, I generally skip it. But everyone uses these forums differently.
 

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