News Ricoh Pentax to "Move Away from Mass Production?"

agentlossing

agentlossing

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Well now, what to make of this? Ricoh CEO announced that the company is "renewing the camera business" by moving away from mass production and distribution to a direct-to-consumer model for Pentax DSLRs and Ricoh GR, along with more of a "workshop-like" manufacture, whatever that means. Petapixel has an article, and you can auto-translate the Japanese announcement on Ricoh's website.

I'm not immediately sure what to make of it, but I think it could be a good thing? What it immediately suggested to me was a Leica-modeled, much more specialized and boutique, camera manufacturing and sales process, and I think that could be a really good thing. I already feel that Ricoh embodies a Leica-like specialization with the GR series and the recent Pentax K3 mk III than in previous models or in their competitors' products. But the downfall of these cameras, to me, is their mass production. The GR III is a well-made camera, but is plagued with a few bad materials and an imperfect seal keeping dust out. it's a $900 camera (the IIIx is $1000), but only part of the camera is quite that premium. The K3 III is a $2000 APS-C DSLR. It's a very good camera, but not perfect. If Ricoh really does move to a "workshop-like" manufacturing process, they might actually solve some of the problems that are inherent with these products.

Of course, if it happens this way, the prices will go up. That's not great, it means that fewer people will buy them (in addition to the fact that they may not be on major online retailer websites anymore?), and the price has to go up even more to accommodate lower sales. However... if I could get a more "hand-crafted" GR camera at twice the price, I would actually sacrifice some of my other gear to afford it and restrict myself a bit more, happily. I'd pay a lot more to have an even better GR. For those who really value DSLRs with the best tech like IBIS and bright pentaprisms, and that lovely Pentax Limited glass, they might feel the same way.

Or, is this going to be the downfall of Ricoh/Pentax? Or, potentially, is distribution going to become so restricted that these cameras will be too hard to get outside of Japan? And how will we get them repaired? I'm not without concerns, and I'm not made of money. But I am still cautiously optimistic. What do you think? Is it possible this restructure is only really meant for Japan?
 
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If it were a Japan-only move, I'd imagine there wouldn't be any 'moving away from mass production'; the workshop products could be sold alongside the remaining mass production that would happen anyway for the rest of the world. Unless they'd withdraw from all but the Japanese market. But that would really be a shame.

If it wasn't for the dust issue I might've had a GR by now, so higher quality control at a higher price might be just what they need indeed.

I can imagine the workshop model also allows for slightly different configurations of the same model to be made more easily, for instance a choice between fixed, tilt or rotating screen.
 
If they are struggling to make money, selling direct makes perfect sense, sort of.

"Of course, if it happens this way, the prices will go up".​


It depends what proportion of buyers purchase their cameras without physically touching them. If the proportion is high, then they may feel able to survive without conferring a profit margin (probably 23%+ gross) to retailers, and further margin to local distributors (probably the same again).

For Pentax/Ricoh it also means not having to manufacture large batches and move stock around the world forward of a product release date.

It is terrible news for independent camera shops.

I've had a similar turn of events with my own business having twice woken up one day to discover my supplier is now my competitor. It's not a nice feeling.
 
There is an interesting and rather lonnnnnnnggggg new thread on this topic at PentaxForums where a number of thoughtful Pentaxians have weighed in. Most seem to think it is both an interesting and good development, for a variety of reasons. Several have compared it to some of Leica's business models, while others compare to both Tesla's models (doing away with normal auto dealer channels) as well as Apple's (specialized and build-to-order) models. Others believe it portends less development or production of truly new models. For those of us interested in Pentaxes (and I am still in the Pentax camp with not one but two small Q cameras!), it's a fascinating read.

But be forewarned: Pentaxians like to talk - and speculate - endlessly. (Confession: I should know...I'm one myself.) Hmmm... on second thought, it's not just Pentaxians: it's all photographers :dance4:
 
Let's see what happens. Moving from wholesaling via a network of distributors to retailing isn't quite as easy as it sounds to the bean counters. It's a very brave decision.

What could possibly go wrong? Well, quite a lot.

One of my former suppliers has amassed a pretty rotten record of customer service. They have learned the hard way that whilst you could get away with persistently fobbing your dealers off with unrealistic promises, when you do that with the end user, they up sticks and are gone forever. Worse, having alienated all of their former dealers, there's no route back to market for them other than the one they have chosen.
 
On a more serious note:

I think Leica shows that their model is feasible. But it remains to be seen if there is space in the market for another boutique manufacturer selling at boutique prices. Will enough people pay for a $2500 safari green K-3iii, a $3500 K-1iii in titanium or $2000 for a Limited lens to match either?

I think the possibilities are interesting. I’m just not certain that the outlook is good.

And as a Pentax user, I will have to remain a buyer on the used market.
 
My local camera stores used to have dedicated areas in their stores for Pentax/Ricoh and Olympus/Panasonic. No more, and it has been that way for some years now. Even Leica doesn't have a "presence". Sony, Nikon, Canon and Fuji all do.

There are some products where this makes sense to do...even a modern smart phone as it is really more about the software that it uses and less about the device itself. It is very easy to show how the software works online and remotely and people will get a sense of what they can expect to get. A physical interface device? Not so much and I think you'll have less people be curious and give it a shot without actual having held one. Much like a car - I know of very few people that would buy a car that they have never had experience with without a test drive. Yes, there are services/car companies that are experimenting with remote sales and at home delivery - but there is no evidence that I know of at this moment that leads me to believe that this is a success in any way, shape or form. Could be that there is no metrics yet because it is still a new concept. However, I will say that from my pool of one 24 year old daughter - even she, whom is 'net savy and knows only a world with cell phones and the internet has no interest in buying her next car without a test drive.

The way Pentax is going may be OK for those Pentaxians that are looking for the next upgrade and are staying in the ecosystem, but I see this as a killer for effectively garnering any new converts to the system. For me this feels more like a way to stem the bleeding and to live a little longer, but I don't see a recovery path there. Maybe the plan is to hold out long enough until someone buys them out? Not sure, but this all seems a weird way to go about it. Maybe they have a cunning plan and a way to give people a no risk "try before you buy", but I can see that potentially being more expensive than production runs and distribution costs if not managed properly. Again - I'm talking out of my orifice because I have no numbers from Pentax or their projections, which I'm sure they have done...I hope.
 
TNcasual said:
On a more serious note:

I think Leica shows that their model is feasible. But it remains to be seen if there is space in the market for another boutique manufacturer selling at boutique prices. Will enough people pay for a $2500 safari green K-3iii, a $3500 K-1iii in titanium or $2000 for a Limited lens to match either?

I think the possibilities are interesting. I’m just not certain that the outlook is good.

And as a Pentax user, I will have to remain a buyer on the used market.
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That would be a hard no for me. The product variations need to be functional in order to justify the presumed price difference over the current mass produced offerings, differentiation in terms of styling or prestige doesn't interest me in the slightest. All my cameras are full of bumps and scrapes because they are there to be used, and I like the dedication to function that both Ricoh and Pentax have mostly shown (the occasional red ringed or green rubbered GRs aside, they always made me weep a little).
 
RichardC said:
If they are struggling to make money, selling direct makes perfect sense, sort of.

"Of course, if it happens this way, the prices will go up".​


It depends what proportion of buyers purchase their cameras without physically touching them. If the proportion is high, then they may feel able to survive without conferring a profit margin (probably 23%+ gross) to retailers, and further margin to local distributors (probably the same again).

For Pentax/Ricoh it also means not having to manufacture large batches and move stock around the world forward of a product release date.

It is terrible news for independent camera shops.

I've had a similar turn of events with my own business having twice woken up one day to discover my supplier is now my competitor. It's not a nice feeling.
Click to expand...
I think the last time I touched a camera before buying it was back in 1982. I bought a Pentax MV1 with an M40 2.8 in a shop in San Francisco. I don't think online would be a big problem. Of course, If they are going to make me a camera on demand, that might be tricky and pricey. I'm not sure Ricoh/Pentax is popular enough to go the Leica route.
 
drd1135 said:
I think the last time I touched a camera before buying it was back in 1982. I bought a Pentax MV1 with an M40 2.8 in a shop in San Francisco. I don't think online would be a big problem. Of course, If they are going to make me a camera on demand, that might be tricky and pricey. I'm not sure Ricoh/Pentax is popular enough to go the Leica route.
Click to expand...

Based on specs alone, I should have in theory bought a Nikon D7200 or D7500. Thankfully my local stores had them for me to try - otherwise they would have been a return to Nikon/store for me. The handling for them was just wrong, as in too small for me and there really were no good grip options that I liked or existed. I guess I'm a weirdo! LOL :)
 
RichardC said:
If they are struggling to make money, selling direct makes perfect sense, sort of.

"Of course, if it happens this way, the prices will go up".​


It depends what proportion of buyers purchase their cameras without physically touching them. If the proportion is high, then they may feel able to survive without conferring a profit margin (probably 23%+ gross) to retailers, and further margin to local distributors (probably the same again).

For Pentax/Ricoh it also means not having to manufacture large batches and move stock around the world forward of a product release date.

It is terrible news for independent camera shops.

I've had a similar turn of events with my own business having twice woken up one day to discover my supplier is now my competitor. It's not a nice feeling.
Click to expand...
It's true, if they can gain back a large percentage of revenue that would otherwise go to retailers, that might offset their lower sales volume to a degree. It may be a sign of chip shortages, and, indeed, other types of shortages, where the higher volume, lower profit mass production scale is not feasible. If these conditions continue, this will be a wise move on Ricoh's part. Ricoh already has a sales presence on the internet direct-to-consumer, but it would need to be expanded. The US Ricoh website and order process is very barebones. I ended up returning the GR IIIx I got via Ricoh because I ordered from multiple online retailers when it was hard to get at first, and the second one ended up being cheaper (sorry Ricoh, but I figured it would end up at worst being resold under their refurb page and someone would get a perfect GR IIIx at a price lower than new). I had to wait almost a month and send several emails before I got my refund.

It is sad for camera shops, but in the Pacific Northwest there aren't many that even sell Ricoh-Pentax. Glazier's in Seattle and Precision in Portland don't, while Kenmore in Seattle only had one K3III and one GR III on their shelves (and I doubt many people buy them from that shop, the salespeople don't promote them and know nothing about them). It's perfectly true that people need to handle cameras to know whether they will want to own them, and it's hard to get around that fact... but at the same time, many, many people have already fallen outside that model either by necessity, or by embracing the online shopping model.

Ricoh actually has a lot of interaction with GR users in Japan. A lot of that activity shows up on their GR blog. Of course for those of us not in Japan, this doesn't mean much, and I kind of doubt they'll really expand this interaction all the way overseas to the US, or even widen it out in Europe and elsewhere. It would be hard to get the products into many people's hands. However the current GR is partly the result of user feedback (I assume mainly Japanese user feedback), so, while I'm not personally influencing what the GR is, there are some Japanese folks who probably are and I trust their judgment to a degree, they've done pretty good so far.
 
MiguelATF said:
There is an interesting and rather lonnnnnnnggggg new thread on this topic at PentaxForums where a number of thoughtful Pentaxians have weighed in. Most seem to think it is both an interesting and good development, for a variety of reasons. Several have compared it to some of Leica's business models, while others compare to both Tesla's models (doing away with normal auto dealer channels) as well as Apple's (specialized and build-to-order) models. Others believe it portends less development or production of truly new models. For those of us interested in Pentaxes (and I am still in the Pentax camp with not one but two small Q cameras!), it's a fascinating read.

But be forewarned: Pentaxians like to talk - and speculate - endlessly. (Confession: I should know...I'm one myself.) Hmmm... on second thought, it's not just Pentaxians: it's all photographers :dance4:
Click to expand...
The catch is that Apple, Tesla, and Leica are all premium brands, and 2 out of 3 have spent decades building that reputation, while the other is run by a real-life Tony Stark. Can Pentax manage to get themselves considered a premium brand? A company can make technically excellent products, but there are already quite a few technically excellent products to chose from. There’s also nothing stopping any of the other companies from doing something similar, which really makes brand reputation worth a lot. Look at what MS has tried to do with Surface for a decade. They are interesting devices aimed at premium buyers, but to this day they don’t generate the same brand recognition and excitement like an Apple product does.
 
Darmok N Jalad said:
The catch is that Apple, Tesla, and Leica are all premium brands, and 2 out of 3 have spent decades building that reputation, while the other is run by a real-life Tony Stark. Can Pentax manage to get themselves considered a premium brand? A company can make technically excellent products, but there are already quite a few technically excellent products to chose from. There’s also nothing stopping any of the other companies from doing something similar, which really makes brand reputation worth a lot. Look at what MS has tried to do with Surface for a decade. They are interesting devices aimed at premium buyers, but to this day they don’t generate the same brand recognition and excitement like an Apple product does.
Click to expand...
You're right; I think that Pentaxians and GR users do consider theirs a premium brand, but I don't know if Ricoh is aware quite how small that community is. Of course, I do think there's a lot of room for a more premium, even customized, camera to blossom in the online photography world as a result of user reports, reviews and vlogs. A fairly large amount of modern photography enthusiasts seem to follow those outlets to a degree. It may well be that the people Ricoh wants to court are pretty much all there, and if Ricoh can capture some enthusiastic users with a viewership or readership, that's all they need.
 
Just thinking off the cuff about how Ricoh could alleviate the problem of not being able to handle their products anymore... if they're marketing direct to consumer, why not start a gear rental wing as well?
 
agentlossing said:
You're right; I think that Pentaxians and GR users do consider theirs a premium brand, but I don't know if Ricoh is aware quite how small that community is. Of course, I do think there's a lot of room for a more premium, even customized, camera to blossom in the online photography world as a result of user reports, reviews and vlogs. A fairly large amount of modern photography enthusiasts seem to follow those outlets to a degree. It may well be that the people Ricoh wants to court are pretty much all there, and if Ricoh can capture some enthusiastic users with a viewership or readership, that's all they need.
Click to expand...
We saw Nikon throw out the retro zfc, so I wonder if there’s something to be had with employing that classic look and feel, which might really only have an appeal from those brands that actually made cameras of yesteryear. Fuji does this to some degree, with the classic dials and silver bodies.
 
Darmok N Jalad said:
We saw Nikon throw out the retro zfc, so I wonder if there’s something to be had with employing that classic look and feel, which might really only have an appeal from those brands that actually made cameras of yesteryear. Fuji does this to some degree, with the classic dials and silver bodies.
Click to expand...
Yes, Fuji has milked that approach and had good success with it in the past, but I think they are growing hungrier than that market can sustain (or else desire for the retro Fuji cameras is waning, no idea which), because they've firmly established some non-retro models now. Also, their retro models don't get a lot of active buzz, unless they do something unexpected like the X-Pro 3 with its odd LCD. Take the XE-4, however. No one seems to have been taken with the design, and barely a peep about its retro controls.
 

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