Sigma Announces DP1M (Merrill Compact) and DP2M with 15MPx3 sensor from SD1

TraamisVOS

Hall of Famer
Nov 29, 2010
Melbourne, Australia
... owning a DP ... it's like joining a weird cult, James ... be warned ...
What's this weird cult then eh? Do we have to wear cult-endorsed longjohns, and only cult-endorsed longjohns, while taking photos with the DP or something?


Sign I saw on my recent trip to Tenerife, food for thought. Certainly for me :)
They should have that sign up at the entrance to every camera shop.....


PS. Are we allowed to post photos from commercial sites...?
 

ggibson

Regular
Sep 14, 2011
Knowing Sigma, these will no doubt take amazing (low ISO) pictures, be crazy expensive, have 2007-slow compact camera performance... and be available in 2014.
 

Archiver

Top Veteran
Jul 11, 2010
Melbourne, Australia
I am very excited about these cameras. They have features like:

- much improved LCD screen

- standardized controls for both cameras. They can probably use the same body shells for both cameras, which saves them money, and make it easier for owners of multiple cameras.

- non-retracting lens. Look at the photos comparing the thicknesses of the original DP1 and new DP1M. The thickness of the new, at the lens barrel, is the same as the old with an auto lens cap. This means that the DP1M is actually slimmer than the DP1 when in operation. It also means that the DP2M will be definitely slimmer. Startup time should be improved as there is no extending lens barrel, and it should be more quiet, too, due to a lack of grinding lens extension motors.

- SD1 sensor. This is the only thing that concerns me, ironically. I have been looking around and the SD1 images don't quite have that supersharp pixel level detail that the DP1 and DP2 produce. I am hoping that these new cameras, paired with improved SPP, will be able to create or better the awesomely satisfying sharpness and vividness of the DP1 and DP2.

I'm really hoping that it will have a very quiet or near-silent shutter, and that AF performance will be at least as good as the Ricoh GXR. I'm also hoping that the new battery means that it will have a longer battery life than its predecessors!
 

Andrewteee

All-Pro
Jul 8, 2010
- SD1 sensor. This is the only thing that concerns me, ironically. I have been looking around and the SD1 images don't quite have that supersharp pixel level detail that the DP1 and DP2 produce. I am hoping that these new cameras, paired with improved SPP, will be able to create or better the awesomely satisfying sharpness and vividness of the DP1 and DP2.
Some people felt that the previous Sigma DSLRs did not either.
 

serhan

All-Pro
May 7, 2011
NYC
This year is getting more interesting with these announcements. We will see if Sigma will make their schedule for the new camera release and the biggest question is how much they will cost esp after their sd1 pricing experience. Still I think it will not be cheap. I was commenting Sigma might be using dp1/2 lenses for nex/43 lens announcements and it looks like this announcement support that eg new lens for dp1m. So many choices, but limited budgets!!
 

Luckypenguin

Hall of Famer
Dec 24, 2010
Brisbane, Australia
Nic
- SD1 sensor. This is the only thing that concerns me, ironically. I have been looking around and the SD1 images don't quite have that supersharp pixel level detail that the DP1 and DP2 produce. I am hoping that these new cameras, paired with improved SPP, will be able to create or better the awesomely satisfying sharpness and vividness of the DP1 and DP2.
Is pixel level sharpness likely to be an issue when there has been such a big jump in resolution? It is not unknown for newer cameras to be released that display greater overall resolution because of an increased pixel count, but are derided for being softer in 100% crop comparisons because their per-pixel sharpness might be lower.
 

Archiver

Top Veteran
Jul 11, 2010
Melbourne, Australia
Is pixel level sharpness likely to be an issue when there has been such a big jump in resolution? It is not unknown for newer cameras to be released that display greater overall resolution because of an increased pixel count, but are derided for being softer in 100% crop comparisons because their per-pixel sharpness might be lower.
The Leica M9 is an 18mp camera with no AA filter, and when the raws are processed with Lightroom they have an incredible pixel level sharpness that is similar to the DP1 and DP2 output. I have not seen a SD1 image with this kind of sharpness yet. Such images might exist, but the fact is that a high-mp Foveon sensor ought to be like this.

I can crop a M9 image and the results are wonderful due in part to the sharpness at the pixel level. It would be great if the DP1M is like this, too.
 

retow

All-Pro
Jul 24, 2010
The Leica M9 is an 18mp camera with no AA filter, and when the raws are processed with Lightroom they have an incredible pixel level sharpness that is similar to the DP1 and DP2 output. I have not seen a SD1 image with this kind of sharpness yet. Such images might exist, but the fact is that a high-mp Foveon sensor ought to be like this.

I can crop a M9 image and the results are wonderful due in part to the sharpness at the pixel level. It would be great if the DP1M is like this, too.
One of the challenges with such a sensor are the lenses, I understand there are only a few Sigma lenses good enough for the SD1. With other words, the new sensor seems to out resolve most of the native mount Sigma lenses. Though in the hands of competent testers, the SD1 got great marks for the file it produces.
So if the lenses of the DP1/2 Merrill are up to the task, we will have bonsai size landscape shooting giants.
 

Rawfa

Regular
Dec 25, 2011
I used to have a DP1 and provided me the best organic look I´ve ever gotten from ANY camera (yes, either you love foveon or you hate it). I absolutely adore the foveon sensor, but once the micro 4/3 and the NEX system hit the market the compromise of using the DP1 was just too much (extremely slow AF, poor high iso performance, poor lcd, slow file processing, etc). I keep dreaming though that one day Sigma will come up with a mirrorless foveon camera. THIS will be a keeper.
I´m very interested in seeing how these new DP cameras fare against today´s tough competition though.
 

pdh

Legend
Jan 2, 2011
Could someone explain what "pixel sharpness" is and how it is measured?
I've seen this phrase a few times but so far I've only ever been able to track down it's being used on camera forums - I can't find a technical reference or any explanation as to what it means
 

Chris2500dk

Top Veteran
Dec 22, 2011
Copenhagen, Denmark
Could someone explain what "pixel sharpness" is and how it is measured?
I've seen this phrase a few times but so far I've only ever been able to track down it's being used on camera forums - I can't find a technical reference or any explanation as to what it means
I'm guessing you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not.. :)
It's a subjective term for perceived sharpness of the image seen on a computer monitor at 100% resolution.
 

pdh

Legend
Jan 2, 2011
It was a genuine enquiry, as it happens.
So, in essence, it is "how good it looks" for any given person for any given image, and is not a property of the sensor.
In which case, it does seem a spurious addition to the vocabulary
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Jul 13, 2011
Lexington, VA
Steve
I would assume it depends on both the sensor and the lens. Since the little pixel sensors are discrete objects, there is an obvious limit at which they can resolve, whereas the lens is an analog device that can split hairs depending on how good it is . I've always wondered where this line lies, although it obviously depends on things like pixel size as well. I realize that you know this as well and that I haven't answered your question; just thinking aloud, so to speak.
 

pdh

Legend
Jan 2, 2011
oops I hope this can of worms I've inadvertently opened doesn't result in this thread veering wildly off like the "dof" discussion the other day ... :) ...

anyhoo, I'm keeping my eye on the Sigma page for these cameras but no sign of a price still ... I have to say I'm not terribly keen on the "lens-on-one-side" design, as it goes against the grain for the way I've always held cameras ... I would certainly hope they supply an improved SPP ... mind you, it's mostly academic for me really, even if they were priced at current DPxx levels I wouldn't be able to afford one
 

Luckypenguin

Hall of Famer
Dec 24, 2010
Brisbane, Australia
Nic
I think the term pixel sharpness comes from the questionable practice of comparing cameras of differing resolutions by using 100% crops.

Classic example: Canon replaced the 10MP 40D with the 15MP 50D. Looking at 100% crops, the older 40D appeared to produce the sharper image, but the 50% increase in pixels meant that the 50D was the higher resolving camera.

If memory serves, I think that comparisons between the Sigma Foveon sensors and cameras with Bayer sensors was the first time that I have seen images (from the Sigma) upsampled to compare two cameras at the same effective resolution due to the big disparity in pixel counts. It actually showed that Sigma's practice of multiplying the basic resolution of the Foveon sensors x3 to calculate a comparable resolution with Bayer sensors was optimistic. ~2x is probably more accurate from what I have seen.
 

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