Sigma Sigma DP2s: I think I've finally found my Serious Compact

[stillshunter]

I must open by saying I was intending to post my first impressions on the "Hands-on" section, but it appears I do not have sufficient permissions ....one day I hope to prove myself worthy. Otherwise if it's something I'm doing wrong then please just let me know and I'll get typing...

Short-version (so I've got something left in the tank for the 'Initial Impressions' write-up). I traded in the LX-5 for a Sigma DP2s with HA-21 hood & VF-21 viewfinder. I don't want to be premature but I think we are going to get along really really well. What I most like about it so far is that it reminds me of a working dog puppy...it just keeps begging me to get our there and work/play/shoot!!!

So here's a 'getting to know my camera' sample shot. Subject is our new calf - Sebastian - still only days old.

Sebastian by stillshunter, on Flickr

 

[TraamisVOS]

I love this photo, it's screams of character in the way that they are both interacting with you.

I've just got a LX5 myself and am absolutely loving it. The DP2 was something that I looked at prior to settling on the LX5 though but mainly because the LX5 does very good video as well which was an important factor for me. What have you liked about the DP2 over the LX5?

 

[stratokaster]

This photo is great! I love Sebastian's expression - he looks very serious and somewhat stubborn here.

 

[bilzmale]

Good composition and plenty of detail - congrats on the new toy.

 

[TraamisVOS]

Man, I'm still really tempted to get the Sigma DP2s or wait for the Fujifilm X100.

 

[stillshunter]

Thanks for your photo comments guys. The calf is a pretty good subject and makes for an easy photo target - but I am speaking with a Father's eye

TraamisVOS, you asked:

"I've just got a LX5 myself and am absolutely loving it. The DP2 was something that I looked at prior to settling on the LX5 though but mainly because the LX5 does very good video as well which was an important factor for me. What have you liked about the DP2 over the LX5?"

What keeps this little world going around (especially our larger and heavier Capitalist side of it) is our desire for more and different things. For me, I count zoom and video capability as well as unlimited depth of field as undesirable - but I think I am in a minority here. I count among my biggest photographic desires - small form factor for big image quality. Now there are a few others in the compact market that can now lay claim to my hard earned dollar, but (to be entirely honest) what won out in the end was my curiosity about the Foveon sensor. I have seen and heard it much lauded (with an equal dose of caricature and derision from others). So I took the risk. I must say it's one of the better leaps I have made. I quickly learned that the LCD gives you a rough impression of the image, but once the SD has been loaded and SPP4 does it's thing, then my jaw still drops. The images are crisp, the bokeh smooth and the tonal range (esp. on the bright end) brilliant.

It's nice to not have to compromise IQ when you scale down.

WARNING: Those who are from the SLR world, like me, please do not buy a fixed lens Sigma DP as a cure for LBA (lens buying addiction). You will simply find yourself substituting that perpetual longing to ABA (accessory buying addiction). I have the hood and the viewfinder (a must!!), now next for me is the close-up filter (probably Sigma OEM AML-1) and Franiec grip and....

So TraamisVOS when you say:

"Man, I'm still really tempted to get the Sigma DP2s or wait for the Fujifilm X100."

Please let the above be warning to you
The only reason I jumped at the DP2s, rather than waiting out the x100 release - and oh am I tempted! Is:
1. Price: USD1400 here pre-release!!!
2. Size: not as small as LX5, S95, DP, etc. But, hey, she aint no hiefer neither
3. Form Factor: I love it!!! But one lament is that it looks so much like a rangefinder....but it's not! The OVF/EVF combo is ground-breaking...but it's still not an RF

I was THIS close to preordering. But instead I will keep the DP2s with me for a year or so, wait for the reviews and any bugs to be ironed out. And when the street-price levels out then, my friend, I will strike!

-----
Stillshunter: currently armed with a Sigma DP2s
-----

 

[Wally Billingham]

I have thought very long and very hard over the Sigma DP line. In fact if Amazon had had one in stock for me back in September I would be the owner of a DP1s instead of my Samsung TL500 (I like the wider lens) One thing I wonder about is the new Sigma DSLRs have a 46mp sensor that is the same physical size that as the one in the old Sigma DSLRs and the DP line. So I wonder if they will be putting it in say a DP3 and DP4?

In any case the foveon is amazing technology and I am sure at somepoint I will be getting a DP camera. Enjoy yours!

 

[BBW]

Congratulations!!! I've been falling in love with this camera's images for a long time. Love that little Sebastian - he's a handsome young fellow. Chip off the old block, no doubt.

I am so glad you've posted and - as for why you couldn't post in the Hands On forum, you'll note that each thread has been started by our host Amin Sabet, so it's nothing personal about you, Stilsshunter. I think the theory is that that section is more geared to technical reviews. This may change but for now that's the way it is. Be sure to add your thoughts to the Suggestion Box.

By the way, did you see this thread: https://www.photographerslounge.org/f9/sigma-dp1-dp2-254/index2.html ? You are not the only one who is smitten by this camera and the Foveon.

 

[TraamisVOS]

stillshunter - that pretty much answered every question I would've had about the Sigma as well as any potential follow up questions in spite of there being no further photos in your post for any visual comparison whatsoever.

 

[stillshunter]

stillshunter - that pretty much answered every question I would've had about the Sigma as well as any potential follow up questions in spite of there being no further photos in your post for any visual comparison whatsoever.

Thanks mate. Well not sure if I pushed you further towards the arms of an LX5 or the DP2.

I've only limited shots saved of from the LX5, but have somewhat of a future with the little Ziggy. So please let me know what you're curious to see from the DP2 and I'll see what my meagre photographic skills can deliver....at least you can't just say it was down to the photographer Honestly, I'd like to test its limits.

Meanwhile, here's one taken with the Sigma pushed into a very uncomfortable place. Straight into the sun...full glare - which as all reviews will tell you it doesn't like (as I didn't like having the front of me soaked as I tried to achieve a wombat-perspective on the post-dawn scene :)

Simple B+W conversion done - only because I like monochrome landscapes. Well also so you can see how it handles all 10 Zones. I am quite impressed by the dynamic range of this sensor!

View attachment 31618

 

[TraamisVOS]

stillshunter - I really like that B&W shot, particularly how the DP handled the sun but I was under the impression that it was bad to expose the sensor to direct sunlight without at least some filters??

Also, I wasn't being sarcastic with my earlier response. Having had a look at the specs of the Sigma (I already own the LX5) and seeing photographs from the DP series on the internet, it was really the individual thought process I was interested in hearing about and you answered it eloquently well. I haven't been on this forum a long time but I've come to respect the opinions of many of the very knowledgeable members here so that was important for me.

Come to think of it though, there is one area of the Sigma DP that I haven't seen enough of yet, and that is how it handles depth of field under non-macro situations (knowing full well that the DP does not have a macro function anyway). Would you happen to have portrait-type shots (of still life or people) with the aperture wide open?

 

[stillshunter]

stillshunter - I really like that B&W shot, particularly how the DP handled the sun but I was under the impression that it was bad to expose the sensor to direct sunlight without at least some filters??

Ooops, you're probably right....I'd better be a little more cautious next time. I'm actually thinking about picking up one of the B+W MRC UV and IR filters which I think were designed for the first batch of Leica M8s.

Also, I wasn't being sarcastic with my earlier response. Having had a look at the specs of the Sigma (I already own the LX5) and seeing photographs from the DP series on the internet, it was really the individual thought process I was interested in hearing about and you answered it eloquently well. I haven't been on this forum a long time but I've come to respect the opinions of many of the very knowledgeable members here so that was important for me.

I'm quite new here too, and the folks are very helpful and respectful of Gumbies such as myself

Come to think of it though, there is one area of the Sigma DP that I haven't seen enough of yet, and that is how it handles depth of field under non-macro situations (knowing full well that the DP does not have a macro function anyway). Would you happen to have portrait-type shots (of still life or people) with the aperture wide open?

Here goes, please excuse the subject matter, it's more about the bokeh...which I assume is what you were looking at. So here's two fresh off the card both at f2.8. The second (Xmas tree decorations) has been thrown in to show you the DP at it's worst. Fully open with strong backlighting to invite fringing, it is obviously there but still relatively well-controlled and easily removed with simple PP. However, I thought I'd give you the genuine response to difficult conditions....you should obviously factor this out in your original composition . Anyway, I hope this helps with your original query.

1.
View attachment 31619

2.
View attachment 31620

 

[TraamisVOS]

ah dammit, I want one. Much appreciated for the photos! May I ask a couple more questions - how far away were you from the subject and were you using zoom?

 

[BBW]

Uh oh, camera lust... Traam, have you seen this thread: https://www.photographerslounge.org/f9/sigma-dp1-dp2-254/index2.html I have to say that I've had to lock my wallet away due to the beauty of achieved by many with these cameras. I have a couple of Flickr pals who shoot with this camera - and now stillshunter is one, too. I have a special place in my heart for their pictures.

 

[stillshunter]

ah dammit, I want one. Much appreciated for the photos! May I ask a couple more questions - how far away were you from the subject and were you using zoom?

Mate my pleasure once again....and, of course, be happy to answer any questions:
1. I was about between one and one a half feet, or 30-45 cms, away from the main focal subjects at the time.
2. As you know the DP series does not come with a zoom - DP1 = 28mm and DP2 = 41mm (eFoV - equivalent field of view in 35mm terms)....and that is what is so about them...well for my shooting style anyways. But if here you are referring to whether I used the 'digital zoom feature in MF mode', then the answer is no. I left the camera in AF and let it seek the target. On this point, I have never used the older DP cameras, but the criticism often levelled at the DP is the slow AF. Well I can honestly say that I have never gotten frustrated at the focus times....if anything it is far fast than what I could achieve manually ...and on par if not faster than the LX5. Also the second shot (above) were ideal conditions for hunting and the DP2 hit the mark every time....the only delay was me changing my mind, constantly, on which of the 9 focal points to use

Uh oh, camera lust... Traam, have you seen this thread: Sigma DP1 and DP2.... I have to say that I've had to lock my wallet away due to the beauty of achieved by many with these cameras. I have a couple of Flickr pals who shoot with this camera - and now stillshunter is one, too. I have a special place in my heart for their pictures.

Oh BB...and it's such a shame that you don't have one in your arsenal. As I couldn't think of a more deserving recipient. Your patience through my frustrations with the LX5, and then further with my indecision between the next compact was a thing of sainthood. I must take this opportunity to thank you for getting me through that time.
ALL: we, and this Forum, are better for having BB on board.
NOw I might have to send the hat around and get you a DP of your own

 

[BBW]

Thanks, Stillshunter, but you are too kind. I think we have a great group here and look forward to an even more interesting 2011.

Back to these Sigmas.:clap2:

 

[TraamisVOS]

Uh oh, camera lust... Traam, have you seen this thread: https://www.photographerslounge.org/f9/sigma-dp1-dp2-254/index2.html

Are you trying to help me or tempt me! I have certainly seen that thread, fortunately there are no photos in it although I've seen many amazing photos on Flikr. I've heard this phenomenon referred to as GAS - gear acquisition syndrome. The last time it happened to me, I had a whole music instrument handmade for me by a luthier who specialises in that field. Ah yes, I am familiar with the ravages of GAS.

Mate my pleasure once again....and, of course, be happy to answer any questions:
1. I was about between one and one a half feet, or 30-45 cms, away from the main focal subjects at the time.
2. As you know the DP series does not come with a zoom - DP1 = 28mm and DP2 = 41mm (eFoV - equivalent field of view in 35mm terms)....and that is what is so about them...well for my shooting style anyways. But if here you are referring to whether I used the 'digital zoom feature in MF mode', then the answer is no. I left the camera in AF and let it seek the target. On this point, I have never used the older DP cameras, but the criticism often levelled at the DP is the slow AF. Well I can honestly say that I have never gotten frustrated at the focus times....if anything it is far fast than what I could achieve manually ...and on par if not faster than the LX5. Also the second shot (above) were ideal conditions for hunting and the DP2 hit the mark every time....the only delay was me changing my mind, constantly, on which of the 9 focal points to use

Thanks for the info. I knew the DP has no zoom, I knew it, but I temporarily forgot it when trying to visually analyse the photos your posted. But you say the AF is faster than the LX5? From all the criticism I've heard in reviews, I expected it to be as slow as a snail on crutches.

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Still that is a nice calf! Nowhere near enough pictures of cows in the world! Straight Charlais? Bull or you going to cut him? I used to raise registered shorthorns 15+ years ago. As for the Sigma most images I see on the net look nice but usually a bit flat or dull - definitely more colour tonality though. I assume they print better?

-Ed-

 

[TraamisVOS]

Hey All,

Still that is a nice calf! Nowhere near enough pictures of cows in the world! Straight Charlais? Bull or you going to cut him? I used to raise registered shorthorns 15+ years ago. As for the Sigma most images I see on the net look nice but usually a bit flat or dull - definitely more colour tonality though. I assume they print better?

-Ed-

Hi EasyEd! Could you post some links to flat/dull DP images? I think maybe it comes down to the photographer and the level of skill because I've seen some really amazing photos taken on the DP so it can't really be the camera since we can see what it's capable of in the right hands.

 

[stillshunter]

Still that is a nice calf! Nowhere near enough pictures of cows in the world! Straight Charlais? Bull or you going to cut him? I used to raise registered shorthorns 15+ years ago.

Mate the calf is a full Murray Grey. Not sure of they are a purely Australian phenomenon but I understand they are a little Angus and a little Shorthorn. We don't send our cattle to market - they have names and we are vegetarians - so only a very small portion of this fellow is destined for the knife.

As for the Sigma most images I see on the net look nice but usually a bit flat or dull - definitely more colour tonality though. I assume they print better?

OUCH! Well I could have cranked up the contrast a little more I know, but to my eye the photo looks pretty alive. I thought it was a nice example of the 3D rendering unique to the Foveon sensor - but of course that's subjective and I'm always happy to hear opinions to the contrary. In my defence, we were in thick cloud at the time (part of the charm of living at 1000 metres above sea level) which I thought added a little more to the lighting and mood. But I take the criticism square on the chin my friend and will endeavour to do better next time! So thanks mate.

Oh yeah and the Foveon images come out a treat on paper.