Feedback Site software change

[kyteflyer]

Michael, are you not seeing the row of icons? They are quite faint but they are there. Look toward the bottom of any post, under "Reply"

 

[bartjeej]

Yup, what Sue said. Hovering the mouse over them makes the rating options more visible.

 

[Amin]

@dalethorn - I received your email about the mobile site. What is missing in your iPhone view?

The right column gets shifted to underneath the main content to make things readable, but it should all be there.

Please explain and include screenshots.

 

[dalethorn]

I brought the site up on my iPad Mini and iPhone 6-plus side by side, and I see that the iPad Mini is not forced to a 'mobile' view.

I don't like being forced to have to press extra buttons to see the same as I see with my iPad Mini. The screen sizes of these 2 are similar, but apparently the iPhone tells the site's software to force a "mobile" view - why not allow the same view as the iPad Mini?

I see now that I can probably get to everything on the iPhone, but it still feels like I have one arm tied behind my back. I can do most of what I do with 2 hands with one hand, but it's not fun. Most sites allow full webpage view on the iPhone, as an option at least.

 

[Amin]

@dalethorn I'm still not sure what you mean. Can you post screenshots? The same content should be on the iPad Mini and your iPhone without having to push any extra buttons. Some content gets shifted lower down on the screen to fit better, but there is no "mobile view" per se, just a responsive design.

 

[dalethorn]

'll have to do this in two parts, from each device. Here's the iPhone 6-plus screenshot:

And here's the iPad Mini screen:

As we see we not only have to push an extra button to get to the posts on the right side of the ipad screen, but the buttons at top (Home, Forums, Gallery) are more limited on the iphone, so that's extra searching too.

 

[Amin]

'll have to do this in two parts, from each device. Here's the iPhone 6-plus screenshot:

View attachment 22927

If you scroll to the bottom, you'll see that the Recent Discussions are there, no button pushing required. No features removed. The only thing I removed for mobile devices is the Recent Discussions column in thread view. It just doesn't leave enough room for photos, even on an iPhone 6+.

the buttons at top (Home, Forums, Gallery) are more limited on the iphone, so that's extra searching too.

They don't fit, even on a big phone, without making the tap targets too small. So they get put into the menu represented by 3 horizontal lines.

Just to illustrate the difference between a responsive site design and a mobile site, try viewing the site on your desktop monitor and watch what happens as you gradually make the browser window more narrow. The content gets shifted to a place that works better (for most people) for viewing in a narrow viewport, but it doesn't get dumbed down or removed altogether.

 

[Amin]

One other thing about how the site renders on a phone. If I just left everything alone without responsive design, the way that GetDPI.com does, Google would rank our site poorly on their mobile search results because they consider it to be a poor mobile experience. For example, if someone were on an iPhone 6+ and searched for "Ricoh GR", Google would put our site on page 12 of their search results, vs page 1 if they rated our site as delivering a good mobile experience.

 

[dalethorn]

It's always better though if the forum allows a choice for desktop view, just in case. But in this case it looks like you have the bases covered, so I'll try harder. Thanks.

 

[Amin]

It's always better though if the forum allows a choice for desktop view, just in case. But in this case it looks like you have the bases covered, so I'll try harder. Thanks.

What I'm trying to say is that what you're seeing on your phone is the desktop view. Same as viewing on your desktop in a small browser window. I guess we just understand this differently than one another.

 

[dalethorn]

I see the point. I'll have to get more experience in this.

 

[Amin]

Here's a blog post that gets to the heart of this issue: Opt-Out Responsive Design?

 

[Amin]

This is also interesting, someone who came out against responsive design: 5 Reasons Why Responsive Design Is Not Worth It - ManageWP

Should be noted - that blog post is now featured on a site with responsive design. I guess the author changed his mind since 2012.

Google recognizes the different ways of doing things and recommends responsive design: https://developers.google.com/webmasters/mobile-sites/mobile-seo/overview/select-config?hl=en

 

[dalethorn]

At the beginning of the personal computer era, I went way against the conventional database methodologies regarding indexing, and based on the philosophy that "give me a big enough fulcrum and lever and I can move the Earth" (quote approximate), or in computerese "give me a big enough pointer and I can control the world's data" (again quote approximate) - I developed a system that allowed users to build multiple indexes to their data that didn't require the indexed field data to be part of the index. The power that that provided, especially before many users had their first hard drives, is difficult to describe in a few sentences.

I mention that because I really don't like having to scroll around to see what I can see in front of me on another similar device. When I was developing very fast MRP routines, I needed to be able to quickly analyze multiple levels of components and ingredients in formulas etc., so since I didn't have a dozen very large screens to work with, I exported dumps of various key tables and printed them with columns optimized for minimum width on legal paper in landscape mode, with up to 300 characters per line. Those dumps and prints, fully automated, made it possible to lay the prints on a large table and see results and relationships simultaneously, without anything hidden or "off the page or screen".

The feeling of being on a "junior" or restricted system with iphone-specific views is not purely an impression of being held back - there are reasons, some of which have to do with forgetting what isn't in front of my eyes right now and having to not just do an extra scroll**, but sometimes go back to a previous page. It's the limitation of the human brain, and gets worse the busier the brain is. I personally think, after following the suggestions here, that the iphone view is pretty good and quite usable, just not ideal.

**What happens with scrolling that people often miss or forget is that the user may scroll down, then forget something they can't see now, and they have to scroll back and scroll forward again. We can give examples of having to do that even with a full-screen view - and it's true - but when I add up my instances on a full screen view and compare to a 'mobile' view, I can count up a lot more time and effort expended with the mobile view.

 

[Luke]

Dale, I only half-understand what you're saying. I'm an absolute Luddite. Somehow in the last 5 years I've gone from being a tech-curious 40 something to a pre-VCR era grandpa. My cel phone (not a smart phone....and it never will be) is blinking 12:00 in giant blue LCD numbers like an early 80s VCR because I don't know how to set it.

But to my NON-tech eyes, while the layouts are NOT interchangeable, I can see how the size of the screens dictates the layouts. And I understand not wanting to scroll, but when a screen (and it's components) gets small enough that it's hard to read, then things need to change. Unreadability trumps convenience (or something to that effect).

Said another way, the hassle of needing to scroll is not as big a detriment as being unable to click a link.

 

[Amin]

I think it goes without saying that more can be done with less time and effort when using a big display.

The question is whether the best use of a small screen is to smash all the stuff into it (user spends time double tapping and pinch zooming to access content) vs moving the content around (user spends time scrolling). With the former, when you double tap or zoom to one area, you may forget what was in another area. With the latter, when you scroll you may forget what was in another area.

Most experts feel that responsive design is the way to go given the wide range of user viewports, and I don't think the way this site renders on a small display is "junior" or restricted in any significant way. Certainly nothing like the old-fashioned mobile sites that give a choice of a "desktop view".

 

[dalethorn]

Dale, I only half-understand what you're saying. I'm an absolute Luddite. Somehow in the last 5 years I've gone from being a tech-curious 40 something to a pre-VCR era grandpa. My cel phone (not a smart phone....and it never will be) is blinking 12:00 in giant blue LCD numbers like an early 80s VCR because I don't know how to set it.

But to my NON-tech eyes, while the layouts are NOT interchangeable, I can see how the size of the screens dictates the layouts. And I understand not wanting to scroll, but when a screen (and it's components) gets small enough that it's hard to read, then things need to change. Unreadability trumps convenience (or something to that effect).

Said another way, the hassle of needing to scroll is not as big a detriment as being unable to click a link.

I hate to have to say it, but a quick pinch to enlarge a link is much faster than scrolling. I'm 67 years old, but just as enthusiastic about technology as when I was 10.

 

[Lightmancer]

I do find this discussion interesting, from both a personal and professional point of view. I say professional with a small p because whilst I am myself less technical than a beanie baby I have a lot to do with Customer Experience (CX) of which User Experience (UX) is a subset.

Example. There are cashpoints (ATMs) that ask you if you want a receipt with your cash withdrawal even when you have selected the "cash, no receipt" option. That drives me nuts.

Example. A self-service parcel drop recently introduced at my local Post Office takes a total of 15 steps to process an insured parcel. A human being behind a counter takes a few sentences. Change is not always good.

That said, on this point, I'm with Amin. I notice on my Android tablet (a big-screen Xperia Z) that the menu options for jumping between forums are rendered differently depending on whether I am holding the tablet in portrait or landscape orientation. I don't know how it does it, but I appreciate that it does.

As an aside, on my 'phone (another big-screen Xperia) I actually use an older version of Tapatalk by choice. I hate the newer versions and their business model with a passion and have side-loaded and locked the version I use - stable, clear and ad-free.

 

[Amin]

I hate to have to say it, but a quick pinch to enlarge a link is much faster than scrolling.

I think this is just a matter of how you personally prefer to work vs what's best for most people. I think the current solution is best for most people and that the effort and money required to produce a nonresponsive design option is not something I can justify to my CFO (wife).

 

[SnapDawg]

Dale, I only half-understand what you're saying. I'm an absolute Luddite. Somehow in the last 5 years I've gone from being a tech-curious 40 something to a pre-VCR era grandpa. My cel phone (not a smart phone....and it never will be) is blinking 12:00 in giant blue LCD numbers like an early 80s VCR because I don't know how to set it.

My phone is an antique Motorola Razr V3 that after 7 or 8 years of daily usage still gives me 2 hours talk time on the original battery - a miracle and there to stay until it falls apart which might take another 7 years or longer. What really escapes me is how people can browse the web for hours on a 4-6 inch screen. I have a nice HTC sleeping in a box somewhere - just 10 minutes with that screen and my synapses start to drop out .