Fuji So the fuss over the XPro2 and more megapixels

Karl

Regular
So looking at the thread over on the main rumors site, one would get the impression that all our 16MP sensors will stop working in January and Fuji is utterly doomed if they don't use a 28MP sensor...

Honestly, I can't understand why pixel peepers of that sort are even using a 4/3 camera. If the megapixel race is so important, they should be saving up for the Nikon D5 or buying the high end Sony.

One of the reasons I went to Fuji was to get out of the megapixel race, as well as shedding the weight of full frame gear.

I also dumped full frame due to old glass not keeping up with the newer sensors. I hope that all those hoping for huge increases in megapixels realize that older glass doesn't always hold up to higher density sensors.

While more megapixels have benefits, there are drawbacks....

Ok, back off my soapbox... :)
 
Not sure where the problem is, as one can always save JPEGs in M size, which is basically like 12 MP. :) Obviously, Fuji won't have 28 MP sensors, as such sensors don't exist outside the imploding Samsung universe.
 
Obviously, Fuji won't have 28 MP sensors, as such sensors don't exist outside the imploding Samsung universe.

Well, that's the thing... there's several folks (at least) over there who are beyond adamant that Fuji has to adapt at least a 28MP sensor... as if that's the only measure of a camera.
 
I'm very happy with my 16 MP X-Pro 1, although I suspect the Pro 2 will have a bump up in MP, maybe to 20?? Twenty MP is the number I've heard most often in my admittedly casual exploration on the subject..

Most people who have been around for more than a day realize that Megapixels are but one of many variables in creating a useful digital photo file, and quite often not the most important one. You're right if you have more MP on a sensor but don't have the lenses to resolve that level of detail, the MP count is fruitless. And more pixels on the same size sensor can create more noise, at least given the same sensor technology.

I rarely print very big and 16 MP covers as big as I am apt to go. All other things being equal, I'd welcome MP "headroom", but I'm not going to race to replace my X-Pro 1 or E-M5, and highlight headroom is more important. Actually, I'm seriously considering acquiring an Epson RD-1 because I love rangefinder shooting so much. 6MP on that is limiting a bit, but on the size mostly. As it is, all my digital cameras can go to bigger prints than my 35mm film cameras and retain resolution.

Megapixels are overrated, but they have been from the outset, and most serious photographers know that. APS-C and m43 cameras are now so good that I choose my cameras on how they operate and how they fit my shooting preferences more than on issues of IQ -- and on that score my slow focusing, slow everything, 12 MP Leica X1 scores highly.
 
I'm very happy with my 16 MP X-Pro 1, although I suspect the Pro 2 will have a bump up in MP, maybe to 20?? Twenty MP is the number I've heard most often in my admittedly casual exploration on the subject..

Most people who have been around for more than a day realize that Megapixels are but one of many variables in creating a useful digital photo file, and quite often not the most important one. You're right if you have more MP on a sensor but don't have the lenses to resolve that level of detail, the MP count is fruitless. And more pixels on the same size sensor can create more noise, at least given the same sensor technology.

I rarely print very big and 16 MP covers as big as I am apt to go. All other things being equal, I'd welcome MP "headroom", but I'm not going to race to replace my X-Pro 1 or E-M5, and highlight headroom is more important. Actually, I'm seriously considering acquiring an Epson RD-1 because I love rangefinder shooting so much. 6MP on that is limiting a bit, but on the size mostly. As it is, all my digital cameras can go to bigger prints than my 35mm film cameras and retain resolution.

Megapixels are overrated, but they have been from the outset, and most serious photographers know that. APS-C and m43 cameras are now so good that I choose my cameras on how they operate and how they fit my shooting preferences more than on issues of IQ -- and on that score my slow focusing, slow everything, 12 MP Leica X1 scores highly.
I got my Pro 1 in July 2015 not to replace my Canon 7D(purchased 2010) but to give me more options with my style of photography. It's not about pixels it's about Photography & that starts with the image that is in you head.
 
Well....I suppose that the industry could have stopped and held steady at 2 or 6 mp ;)

That's a fair point.. :D but there are diminishing returns in sensor size, especially at specific breakpoints, depending on the design of the glass.

My post was more aimed about the pixel peepers that value MP beyond anything else, but part of it is bemoaning the devaluation of cameras in the digital age, and the money lost in the megapixel wars.
 
I'll be keeping my X-Pro1. My X-M1 will go, as surplus to requirements and so will my X-T1 IF the X-Pro2 is weatherproofed (as expected) AND also has an add-on battery/vertical grip; this is important to me for motorsports, cricket and air shows - about the only time the X-T1 sees the light of day. I ordered* the X-Pro2 yesterday, by the way.

*N.B. "ordered", NOT "pre-ordered"; you either order something or you don't - the prefix is fingernails-on-a-blackboard unnecessary ;)
 
I'll be keeping my X-Pro1. My X-M1 will go, as surplus to requirements and so will my X-T1 IF the X-Pro2 is weatherproofed (as expected) AND also has an add-on battery/vertical grip; this is important to me for motorsports, cricket and air shows - about the only time the X-T1 sees the light of day. I ordered* the X-Pro2 yesterday, by the way.

When the XT-2 is announced, I'll probably pick up on of those, keep my X-T1, but I'll probably also hang onto my XM-1, but it will get put in my truck and reside there permanently, for those "I wish I had my camera" times..
 
I currently use 4 X-T1 cameras for wedding photography, and a X100T for my personal use. I'd welcome additional pixels for my professional work for two reasons:

1. Additional cropping room. While 16MP is plenty for a finished image, if I need to rotate and crop an image I may end up with something as small as 8MP, starting to be a little small to deliver professionally. A 24MP sensor would help ensure this is less of an issue.

2. Moire - while the current sensor is supposed to eliminate Moire, resulting in the lack of requirement for an AA filter, this is not always effective. I've had several weddings where the suits of the groomsmen generated considerable moire, resulting in considerable work in Lightroom to remove it. In one case it was so bad the final images were impacted significantly. Additional MP will reduce this issue, according to the experts at least.

For my personal use, with the X100T I can't see any reason to upgrade for more MP. Better high ISO, better dynamic range - these are the things that I expect to come with the next generation of sensors. I'll think about upgrading then.
 
I don't see any fuss about 24 MP, at least not in the real world (forums aren't the real world). 24 MP is simply the current standard for enthusiast APS-C cameras, and Fuji is (once again) late to the party playing catchup. Nikon's 7000 series has been 24 MP for years (over 2 generations of bodies), Sony's 6000 series has been 24 MP for years (and before that the NEX 7), Samsung even went to 28 MP (and even that was more than a year ago, and now they are leaving the camera business).

It will soon be very hard to even find a 16 MP APS-C sensor in the market, as nobody is making them anymore and existing stockpiles are shrinking. Just like the great 12 MP Sony sensor in the X100 became obsolete after the IMX071 came about, it's now time to phase out the IMX071 family and replace it with the newer generation (which really isn't that new anymore).

Obviously, DR will be better, noise response will be better (at least by 1 stop), sensor read-out will be faster, blackout times will be shorter, AF will be faster, the PDAF area will be larger, EVF frame rates will soar, video will be better and so on. It's called progress, and only a very small minority of users oppose progress, sometimes citing phony reasons that aren't rooted in the factual world. It's true that the progress-adverse crowd is more visible in the Fuji camp due to the retro appeal of Fuji's X-series products, but make no mistake: Fuji can't exist by selling cameras only to folks that want time to stand still.

I remember similar discussions when the X100 Classic was replaced by a 16 MP model, and part of it is certainly based on cognitive dissonance, which occurrs when the camera one owns is replaced by a newer/better line of products. This can instill an unpleasant feeling of inferiority among G.A.S.-ridden users, especially when upgrading is not an option due to financial considerations. So people find excuses why the newer/better product isn't really better and why the old one is just fine (or maybe even of the "they don't make 'em like this anymore" kind).

Of course, there are also folks who don't care about G.A.S., and there's also a time when products become classics and aren't subject to feature and spec comparisons, anymore. The original X100 is an example for this, and the X-Pro1 is now another one. In recent months, it was sold-off at really attractive prices. Buying an X-Pro1 today is a relaxing experience, because X-Pro1 owners do not participate in the camera arms race. They run out of competition. It's like buying a classic car: It stops being about the specs, it's all about the emotion. Obviously, megapixels become pretty irrelevant in this scenario, because it's all about how you feel when you are using the camera.

OTOH, Fuji isn't making money with the X-Pro1 sell-off (just clearing stock and cutting losses), so the X-Pro2 better delivers in the innovation department, because it will have to compete in a rather small and crowded market.
 
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So looking at the thread over on the main rumors site, one would get the impression that all our 16MP sensors will stop working in January and Fuji is utterly doomed if they don't use a 28MP sensor...

Honestly, I can't understand why pixel peepers of that sort are even using a 4/3 camera. If the megapixel race is so important, they should be saving up for the Nikon D5 or buying the high end Sony.

One of the reasons I went to Fuji was to get out of the megapixel race, as well as shedding the weight of full frame gear.

I also dumped full frame due to old glass not keeping up with the newer sensors. I hope that all those hoping for huge increases in megapixels realize that older glass doesn't always hold up to higher density sensors.

While more megapixels have benefits, there are drawbacks....

Ok, back off my soapbox... :)

Hi I have just moved to my XT-10 from Sony FF system with Ziess glass and I have not regretted the move. I have everything I want in my XT-10 and 10-24mm lens that I had with my A99 and 16-35mm ZA F2.8 but over have the weight. I do not miss the megapixels or the F2.8 apeture.

Si
 
Hi I have just moved to my XT-10 from Sony FF system with Ziess glass and I have not regretted the move. I have everything I want in my XT-10 and 10-24mm lens that I had with my A99 and 16-35mm ZA F2.8 but over have the weight. I do not miss the megapixels or the F2.8 apeture.

Si
I'm still on the fence over the A7II (as a digital back for my Zeiss glass :LOL: ) but so far a mere 1.5 stops S/N advantage over my NEX-7 have kept me from pulling the trigger on that baby. I did a good number of comparative shootouts over the last couple months and from what I see here the X-Pro1 gives me at least 1.5 if not two stops better Hi-ISO performance (detail retention) over the NEX anyways. On top of that I have all the fast Fuji glass I need (18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4) and the O.I.S. on the 1855 comes in very handy at times as well. If I had to choose between the A7II and the X-Pro2 though, I'd pick the Sony since it's a much better platform for my trusty legacy glass IMO.
Just my 2... YMMV.
 
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