Micro 4/3 So what other camera alternatives are there to the OM5?

John King

Member of SOFA
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Name
John ...
The 40-150 is a pretty good lens and it’s always been really cheap.
Agreed. And the 12-50 macro is much, much better than it is mostly ever given credit for. I own both, and have taken some very nice shots with both.

My 14-42 EZ has the very common misalignment on the LHS of the photo, but it's rarely noticeable. And I have lots of shots which I would otherwise not have got without it, specially now that it lives on my E-PM2 in the car.

My shots of the Devaux Coupe in the Remarkable Cars thread being an example.

Just because I have quite a few fancy, expensive lenses doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the smaller, lighter, cheaper side of the mFTs ecosystem.
 

The more I ponder it, the more baffling the lack of front control dial on the A7c is. Out of curiosity, I had another look at one yesterday. The styling appeals to me , I could MAYBE accept the somewhat substandard evf, but my instinctive response was - again, like my first interest when they were released- annoyance at no dial under or around the shutter button. A joystick would've been useful too. (That applies to the Om5 as well, I love joysticks for moving AF points).

I had a very similar response with the Fuji X-e4 as well.

I remain hopeful, but not optimistic, that Panny (or maybe sigma!!) build me a decent FF "rangefinder style" body. Otherwise, one day, I'll buy an Xpro.
There's no room in the grip for a front dial. Yes, the body is that small. The NP-FZ100 battery basically fills what grip there is.

And calling the EVF 'substandard' is a bit unfair, as it's pretty much on par with anything in the same class. The tiny size carries a price to pay, they can't fit any larger a viewfinder in that body.

The lack of a joystick is regrettable, but somewhat offset by the fact that the subject tracking works so well that you can first point the focus point on your subject, then recompose to whatever you want. So you first kinda show the camera what you want the focus on, then keep it locked and tracking as long as you need. Worked on the EOS R also, by the way...

Under all it's quirks the C is one fun and responsive shooter. Maybe not everyone will appreciate it, but I've had fun with it. Like I did with the GX80 as well...
 

saladin

Regular
Name
Jason
All fair points, but it's almost identical in size to the Gx8 , which has better ergo's, and I suspect Sony could have made it better had they really wished. The EVF in particular. It's perhaps a bit like the PenF, adequate but not a feature point.

It's still the Sony I'm most likely to buy. By some margin. With small primes - the Samyang "tiny series" 1.8's or maybe sigma i series- I think it'd be a lot of fun, not too big and very capable. But it didn't immediately make me love it. A lot like the Gx9, actually.

Anyway, we all pay our money and make our choices. I've no doubt it takes brilliant photos.
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Location
Virginia
Name
Steve
All fair points, but it's almost identical in size to the Gx8 , which has better ergo's, and I suspect Sony could have made it better had they really wished. The EVF in particular. It's perhaps a bit like the PenF, adequate but not a feature point.

It's still the Sony I'm most likely to buy. By some margin. With small primes - the Samyang "tiny series" 1.8's or maybe sigma i series- I think it'd be a lot of fun, not too big and very capable. But it didn't immediately make me love it. A lot like the Gx9, actually.

Anyway, we all pay our money and make our choices. I've no doubt it takes brilliant photos.
The A7C was made to a size and a price point. Since the A7iv is 700 usd more than the A7C, Sony could nudge the price up a bit on the latter to make a better version.
 
I bought and sold an A7C. The size savings was not enough for me compared to the the A7 series and the EVF was/is tiny. I sold my A7Riv to get a great deal on an A1. The A1 is a brilliant body but to be honest, the EM5 MKiii is more enjoyable as is the OM-1. For all of the pixels Sony has, the Olympus/OMDS bodies and lenses are much more fun to shoot with. Then there is HHHR, Live ND, Live Composite, in camera focus stacking and Pro Capture. I read a review of the Sony A7RV and he was so excited to have focus bracketing finally but lamented that it was not in camera. Olympus/OMDS has had in camera focus stacking for some time now. The OM-5 might be a ho hum release but it is very capable, small and virtually weather proof. We really are spoiled when it comes to choices these days. For all of the hand wringing about the demise of cameras, look at what is available. Since I have an OM-1 and an EM5 MKiii, I don’t see an upgrade to an OM-5 anytime soon, but if I find a nice used one then maybe. If you are looking for small, capable and reasonably priced, the OM-5 doesn’t have a lot of competition IMHO.
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Name
John ...
I simply cannot believe that the 7c has 24 MPx RAW files that are around 47 MB each! That's year 2000 stuff.
Forget about the VF "only" being around 2.4 MPx - that's much the same as the Fuji GFX 100. Perfectly usable IRL. I don't take photos with the VF! As long as it's adequate for framing and composition, that's all that really matters.
 
All fair points, but it's almost identical in size to the Gx8 , which has better ergo's, and I suspect Sony could have made it better had they really wished. The EVF in particular. It's perhaps a bit like the PenF, adequate but not a feature point.
Well, the GX8 is notably larger than the a7C. They traded more size to get a better viewfinder magnification. The resolution is roughly the same. Also, including the front dial would have required either larger sized body, smaller battery or having the dial as a ring around the shutter button, which would have given the C a different control paradigm compared to other a7 cameras. Anyhow, the body already has two back dials and a dedicated exposure compensation dial, so it's not such a big deal in the end.
I simply cannot believe that the 7c has 24 MPx RAW files that are around 47 MB each! That's year 2000 stuff.
On this I can agree. I mean, for how long have the other manufacturers had lossless compression on their bodies? With Sony, compression is lossy. And if you think that 47 MB is a bit steep, try shooting the R-bodies... Well, at least now they've gotten their act together and found out about lossless compression, but that's in the a7 IV and later. I felt so clever shooting bursts of birds flying in to a scene with the a7R III, and realizing every second is about a gigabyte of hard drive space...

Well, every camera manufacturer has their quirks and idiosyncracies. And we'll just have to live with them... I see people complain about the most expensive of pro bodies, just because they don't cater to every single one of their whims and suc.. make them coffee while at it (I was going to use a more inappropriate reference here...). Maybe we just have too high expectations sometimes...
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Name
John ...
On this I can agree. I mean, for how long have the other manufacturers had lossless compression on their bodies? With Sony, compression is lossy. And if you think that 47 MB is a bit steep, try shooting the R-bodies... Well, at least now they've gotten their act together and found out about lossless compression, but that's in the a7 IV and later. I felt so clever shooting bursts of birds flying in to a scene with the a7R III, and realizing every second is about a gigabyte of hard drive space...
I just realised that the Fuji GFX 100 is doing the same. 100 MPx file that's 200 MB each!
Well, every camera manufacturer has their quirks and idiosyncracies. And we'll just have to live with them... I see people complain about the most expensive of pro bodies, just because they don't cater to every single one of their whims and suc.. make them coffee while at it (I was going to use a more inappropriate reference here...). Maybe we just have too high expectations sometimes...
Quite. But some things are ridiculous.
 
I just realised that the Fuji GFX 100 is doing the same. 100 MPx file that's 200 MB each!

Quite. But some things are ridiculous.
Well, at least ridiculous things can be laughed at. Like, why can't the EOS R show the level in the viewfinder while using eye AF, or why won't the a7R III let me change from burst to single shot while it's emptying its buffer... OK, sometimes those can be a real frustration.

But those GFX files... I guess a 100mpix medium format body is such a specialist tool, that those file sizes are one quite minor worry for the people wielding such weapons.
 

olli

Super Moderator Emeritus
Location
Taipei
Name
olli
As several other contributors have mentioned, the closest equivalent in Fuji land is the X-S10. When I recently sold off my X-T2 and X-E2 I was looking across multiple systems at my options and seriously considered the EM5iii because the specifications and the lens range were both very appealing. In the end the fact that Olympus was recycling a relatively older sensor put me off a little and I considered waiting for the next upgrade. The X-S10 was also very appealing (particular since I already had a couple of Fuji lenses to hand) with the only downsides for me being the lack of weather sealing, and the PASM arrangement (since I like Fuji's control dial approach). But in the end I got the Fuji. There are enough dials and buttons to make personalising the set up feasible so that it sort of approximates the Fuji all dials approach in the essentials. The presence of IBIS was critical for me and I might still have gone with the Olympus had Fuji not included it in the X-S10. However, they did, and it's very good. I've had no issues with autofocus speed or accuracy (though I tend not to push the system as hard as some people might.) The grip is superb, deep and wide, so much so that I only use a wrist strap these days and hold the camera by the grip at all times. You really don't need an extra grip.

The Fujifilm primes are as good (in my view) as those available from OMD/Panasonic, though there are limited (or no) options if you're looking for longer focal lengths. In terms of size and weight the f2/f2.8 prime range are gems - I have the 16/2.8, 23/2 and 35/2 and there's also 18/2, 27/2.8 and 50/2 - and are also excellent optically and are weather resistant. They are also reasonably affordable compared to other Fuji lenses. However, the faster primes and zooms are generally going to be bigger and heavier than what you are getting with M43 for the most part.

Good luck with your quest!
 

hazwing

Rookie
As several other contributors have mentioned, the closest equivalent in Fuji land is the X-S10. When I recently sold off my X-T2 and X-E2 I was looking across multiple systems at my options and seriously considered the EM5iii because the specifications and the lens range were both very appealing. In the end the fact that Olympus was recycling a relatively older sensor put me off a little and I considered waiting for the next upgrade. The X-S10 was also very appealing (particular since I already had a couple of Fuji lenses to hand) with the only downsides for me being the lack of weather sealing, and the PASM arrangement (since I like Fuji's control dial approach). But in the end I got the Fuji. There are enough dials and buttons to make personalising the set up feasible so that it sort of approximates the Fuji all dials approach in the essentials. The presence of IBIS was critical for me and I might still have gone with the Olympus had Fuji not included it in the X-S10. However, they did, and it's very good. I've had no issues with autofocus speed or accuracy (though I tend not to push the system as hard as some people might.) The grip is superb, deep and wide, so much so that I only use a wrist strap these days and hold the camera by the grip at all times. You really don't need an extra grip.

The Fujifilm primes are as good (in my view) as those available from OMD/Panasonic, though there are limited (or no) options if you're looking for longer focal lengths. In terms of size and weight the f2/f2.8 prime range are gems - I have the 16/2.8, 23/2 and 35/2 and there's also 18/2, 27/2.8 and 50/2 - and are also excellent optically and are weather resistant. They are also reasonably affordable compared to other Fuji lenses. However, the faster primes and zooms are generally going to be bigger and heavier than what you are getting with M43 for the most part.

Good luck with your quest!

The X-S10 with the smaller F2 primes do look like a good size and are tempting. The larger grip on the xs10 is less preferred but doable as I am already using an EM1.

Just did a quick search on prices.
I can get the x-s10 with the 15-45mm lens for less AUD$300 less than the RRP of the OM5
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Location
Virginia
Name
Steve
The XS10 tends to fly under the radar because it's not the typical retro Fuji interface. To me, it's very similar in feel to the original Olympus EM1. I've owned a bunch of Fuji bodies, and I continue to do so because, IMHO, Fuji just makes nice cameras. The Ricoh GRiiix and the XS10 are my go-to cameras at this point. Trying to resist the siren call of the XT5 . . .
 
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Darmok N Jalad

There are FOUR LIGHTS!
Location
Tanagra
The E-M5.3 is a camera I keep coming back to. It does a lot right, so what they've done with the OM-5 is not at all offensive to me. It's actually everything I wished the E-M5.3 was. Price is a barrier, but I feel that's a introductory/temporary issue. Keep in mind I shot an X-T3 for a few months this year. While I loved the 35 f2, I wasn't as big of a fan of the 55-200 or 70-300. I expected a bit more sharpness from the Fuji setup with those extra MPs, and sometimes I'd get it, but it wasn't consistent. There's something to be said for being consistently surprised by the output in a good way, and that's something the E-M5.3 and 75-300ii has delivered time an again. The 25mm and 45mm 1.8s are small and fantastic, and the 9-18 is about as small a UWA zoom as you'll find on an ILC. The PL25mm 1.4 is also fantastic for a bit more money. There are lots of good M43 lenses, IMO. It really helps prop up the format considerably, even with an older sensor. That 20MP sensor isn't really as bad as people often comment, despite its age. Use DxO PureRAW and you'll really be happy.
 

mnhoj

gee aahrr
Location
Los Angeles
Name
John
Pretty good thread here outlining the subtleties and quirks of a few competing bodies.
We should assemble a set of threads of all the systems.

This place is full of helpful members that have or have had access to a lot of different gear.
Would likely be very useful. And fun.
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Name
John ...
The E-M5.3 is a camera I keep coming back to. It does a lot right, so what they've done with the OM-5 is not at all offensive to me. It's actually everything I wished the E-M5.3 was. Price is a barrier, but I feel that's a introductory/temporary issue. Keep in mind I shot an X-T3 for a few months this year. While I loved the 35 f2, I wasn't as big of a fan of the 55-200 or 70-300. I expected a bit more sharpness from the Fuji setup with those extra MPs, and sometimes I'd get it, but it wasn't consistent. There's something to be said for being consistently surprised by the output in a good way, and that's something the E-M5.3 and 75-300ii has delivered time an again. The 25mm and 45mm 1.8s are small and fantastic, and the 9-18 is about as small a UWA zoom as you'll find on an ILC. The PL25mm 1.4 is also fantastic for a bit more money. There are lots of good M43 lenses, IMO. It really helps prop up the format considerably, even with an older sensor. That 20MP sensor isn't really as bad as people often comment, despite its age. Use DxO PureRAW and you'll really be happy.
Randy, I agree. Also, the original Sony 16 MPx sensor in the E-M5 series is a cracker.

It is also in my E-PM2. Along with my 14-42 EZ or one or more of the small but good f/1.8 primes, it's a fantastic every day carry camera. My E-PM2 lives in my car. I bought a VF-4 viewfinder for it, because I really don't like not having a proper viewfinder. It takes really lovely photographs.

The 20 MPx Sony sensor is just that bit better. I really don't care how "antique" it might be considered. It's the results that count.
 
The 20 MPx Sony sensor is just that bit better. I really don't care how "antique" it might be considered. It's the results that count.
Has there really been any meaningful development in sensors since the adoption of BSI-CMOS technology? Stacked sensors bring speed, but no discernible IQ difference to the table. At least FF sensors have been pretty much stagnant since the 42mpix Sony sensor, aside from Canon at last catching up to Sony with the R5 sensor. Some megapixel race stuff has been happening, but no big IQ improvements.
 

John King

Member of SOFA
Location
Beaumaris, Melbourne, Australia
Name
John ...
Has there really been any meaningful development in sensors since the adoption of BSI-CMOS technology? Stacked sensors bring speed, but no discernible IQ difference to the table. At least FF sensors have been pretty much stagnant since the 42mpix Sony sensor, aside from Canon at last catching up to Sony with the R5 sensor. Some megapixel race stuff has been happening, but no big IQ improvements.
Not really, ES. Just IMHO, of course.

My E-M1 MkI uses the Panasonic 16 MPx sensor. It gets a bit noisy between ISO 1600 to 6400, depending on the light, of course. The E-PM2 is a bit better, with slightly richer colours, uses the Sony 16 MPx sensor, and it was released in September 2012. My E-M1 MkII has the Sony 20 MPx sensor, and is slightly better than both, 1/3 to 1/2 a stop, at best.

Seems that other manufacturers are much the same, hitting their straps around 2012. Compare the DR of e.g. the lovely Nikon D3 D4 D5 D6 bodies at Bill Claff's photonstophotos site.

Of course, the big manufacturers have mostly gone mirrorless, with varying degrees of success, but the sensor technology seems to have reached near perfection about ten years ago.

Even readout speed has stalled for most. My E-M1 MkII does 60 fps, and it's 6 y.o. now.

I've been looking at the new crop of 100 MPx cameras over the last week (stress testing my new PC), and their IQ is quite stunning, as one would expect. However, big and not very versatile for most general type photography. @boojum has just bought the Hasselblad 100c, and even the reduced size JPEGs he can upload to Flickr are fantastic. Gorgeous. However, I don't think it would suit me.

The ~40 MPx 135 format cameras and images don't really have anything I lust after. Better noise at high ISO, but that's about it.

The E-M1 MkII may well see me out ...
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Location
Virginia
Name
Steve
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