Son's and Daughter's car totalled simultaneously while parked in front of the house

[RichardC]

At least here in Oz the Traffic Accident Commission (TAC) covers ALL personal injury costs, even for passengers in your vehicle. It's compulsory, and attaches to the car via registration renewal, not the driver. Insurer of last resort process.

Of course, our insurance companies are just as feckless as anywhere else, but more tightly constrained by both legislation and case law (I did my bit a few times to tighten up the latter).

I once got charged by the police for "leaving the scene of an accident" after taking the young fool on a motorcycle who ran into my stationary Landcruiser to hospital, notifying his parents, then driving his Dad back to the accident scene, putting motorbike in the back of my truck and taking it to their home. That case was dismissed in court ... about 45 years ago.

I've met those police. Didn't recognise the Australian accents, but it must be them.

Photo studio in 2000. The rozzers arrive after the burglary. One points at the massive hole in the bottom half of the front door and says "this could be how they got in, can someone radio the scenes of crime officer".

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

My own personal totaled car story came just 40 days after purchasing the first brand new car in my life. Was about to make a left turn yield when a car blew through a cold red light. He hit one car, then slammed into ours. As we are sitting side by side in the aftermath, I could see his hysterical girlfriend in the passenger seat with bloodshot eyes, and he just pops a fresh cigarette into his mouth and reclines the seat! His claim was that he hydroplaned, but it was uphill and speed limits were under hydroplaning speeds. Oh, and the light had been red long before you got to the intersection, bozo!

My biggest fear was that this stoned fool had no insurance, but to my surprise, he actually did, and I was able to make myself whole when they reached out to compensate us “for our troubles” (ie, to not sue for injuries later). One officer took bozo to get tested for extracurricular substances, while another drove us home (ironically, less than a mile away, as the cliche goes). It’s the only time I’ve ridden on the hard fiberglass back seat of a squad car, thank you very much. I didn’t buy another brand new car until 10 years later!

 

[rpracing]

We're a no fault state, maybe the only one left. Both car were legally parked, and both have full coverage. Both will be totaled and the insurance company will offer a settlement. That's where it gets interesting. They will offer low, I will decline and demand fair market value. We'll go back and forth a few times and will get something more than they initially offered, but less than what I want. My daughter's car bluebook around $7500 trade value, my son's around $4500. My daughter can afford to use that as a down payment and buy another car, my son can't. With new cars hard to find and used cars up by 20-40% this is going to suck. Big time.

Youy should be able to go after the rest of the value along with getting her to pay your lawyer fees. Refusing usually means they know they are SOL and probably have more than one DUI already.

 

[John King]

We're a no fault state, maybe the only one left. Both car were legally parked, and both have full coverage. Both will be totaled and the insurance company will offer a settlement. That's where it gets interesting. They will offer low, I will decline and demand fair market value. We'll go back and forth a few times and will get something more than they initially offered, but less than what I want. My daughter's car bluebook around $7500 trade value, my son's around $4500. My daughter can afford to use that as a down payment and buy another car, my son can't. With new cars hard to find and used cars up by 20-40% this is going to suck. Big time.

Tim, somewhere in your children's insurance policies there will be a clause where the insurer indemnifies them against consequential loss. Use your imagination with this one! I have. They caved ...

Years later, the High Court here found against an insurer on the exact grounds I had argued.

Another thing. Ask them if they have a second hand vehicle dealer's licence (they won't). So the trade price ("blue book value") is irrelevant. You are not selling a car, you're buying one (two ... ). Not as a MV trader, but as a retail customer ... indemnity?

So invoke the indemnity clause to force them to replace each vehicle with identical ones, with identical mileage and (pre-accident) condition.

Make it hard for them.
They just might give in to you, and keep right on ripping everyone else off ...

That's my approach. Hasn't failed me yet.

 

[Brownie]

We intend on pursuing as much as we can through channels, but trust me when I tell you "No Fault Insurance" means exactly that. Your insurance pays for your car, their insurance pays for theirs, regardless of who's at fault. The most you can sue for is a small tort to get back any deductible.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

We intend on pursuing as much as we can through channels, but trust me when I tell you "No Fault Insurance" means exactly that. Your insurance pays for your car, their insurance pays for theirs, regardless of who's at fault. The most you can sue for is a small tort to get back any deductible.

I didn’t realize that any state did it differently than the at-fault system. Probably makes life easier for the police.

 

[Brownie]

Makes it more expensive for us. We're one of the highest premium states in the country.

 

[Brownie]

Update:

Driver was issued DUI, beer and liquor. How do we know? Turns out there's an app for that!

Daughter has found her next vehicle, a 2022 Subaru Crosstrek. It's supposed to be at the dealership the first week of May, she has a deposit on it. She has free car rental for up to 30 days so plenty of time.

May have found a nice older Cadillac STS for my son, still waiting to hear.

 

[Brownie]

Well, it took 3 weeks, but cars have been replaced. Daughter had to pay a premium of $3,000 over sticker, and it's the same story pretty much anywhere you go. It is absolute insanity out there. The worst time to buy a car I've ever seen. Anything you buy is going to be worth a lot less once these prices correct.

Son was a mess. There's very little available in his price range. Lost out on the Caddy because the insurance company drug their feet in getting everything done. We had no idea if they were even going to total it before the Caddy was gone. We did make out decent due to the current market, we got $800 more than we paid 2 years ago.

So then we found a nice 2012 Chevy Malibu with 131,000 miles. Bought it, brought it home, looking everything over. Oh look...the next oil change is due at 176,000 miles. Wait...what? Called the shop, ended up taking it back and getting a full refund. There was enough evidence to suggest someone rolled the odometer back, including an odd Carfax that didn't make a lot of sense once we dug into it.

Other possibilities were an older Chevy Equinox, was a couple thousand more than we wanted to spend so I passed. Had second thoughts, went back the next day, it was gone. Mistake. Cars are not lasting long on the lot at all

Found a Dodge Ram pickup standard cab short box. Seemed like a decent deal, but reviews of this small used car dealer were awful. Pass.

Ended up with a 2004 Subaru Outback Imprezza, 129,000 miles, bought it from a Subaru dealer. They had just taken it in the day before when we found it on-line. My son called and they told him it hadn't been through service yet so they couldn't show it to us. Bullshit. We went up there and made them show it to us, placed a deposit, and went back after it was serviced and they had installed new tires. Test drove and bought. Salesman said it was a good thing we went up and pushed the issue, they had a bunch of calls on it and it would've been gone.

So now everyone has a car, problem is we're gun-shy and no one wants t park in the street so we have to shuffle cars when someone needs to go. Pain in the butt.

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

And I take it parking next to the driveway on the lawn isn't an option either. Sorry to feel your pain through all this. I've often thought of selling my car as we don't really use it that much. But hearing stories like this about trying to find something, even new, keeps me sane and it in my garage. It's worth a pot of gold to me.
Glad you pushed the dealer too as they always try to do that 'Wait till it's ready' routine as they don't want potential buyers to see what it was like when they got it.

 

[Brownie]

And I take it parking next to the driveway on the lawn isn't an option either. Sorry to feel your pain through all this. I've often thought of selling my car as we don't really use it that much. But hearing stories like this about trying to find something, even new, keeps me sane and it in my garage. It's worth a pot of gold to me.
Glad you pushed the dealer too as they always try to do that 'Wait till it's ready' routine as they don't want potential buyers to see what it was like when they got it.

Actually it was really clean already, the car was an exceptional find. What we saw happen with a few others was the dealer would say "we need to do this and that, then I'll call." Crappy communication between them and the other salesman would lead to the car being made available without our salesman's knowledge, and it would be sold. Fair warning to anyone looking right now: Don't wait, don't think it over, it'll be gone.

My daughter's car was setting on the lot and they called and asked if we could come and get it NOW. It was the only new Crosstrek there and people were insisting they be allowed to buy it even after being told it was already sold. It's a jungle out there.

 

[John King]

Glad it's sorted, Tim.

Used car shopping is always a nightmare.

We have two Subaru Foresters - 2006 5sp dual range manual and 2009 4sp sports auto - both with the 2.5L EJ-253 engine. As at present time, both have around 130,000 kms on them. Probably see us out! I bought my 2006 with 100K kms on the clock, SWMBO's was near new, with only 56,000 kms on it! Still had some factory warranty on it. Both good for 300,000+ kms, at the very least.

It worked out at roughly two for the price of one new one. In both cases, someone else had paid the large depreciation bill.

They are very safe and reliable cars. AND I don't have to stoop to get in and out ...

 

[AlwaysOnAuto]

I sure wish there was a way to make the other driver suffer some of these problems, especially since they were issued a DUI. Seems only fair they should feel a lot of your pain for being so irresponsible.

 

[John King]

I sure wish there was a way to make the other driver suffer some of these problems, especially since they were issued a DUI. Seems only fair they should feel a lot of your pain for being so irresponsible.

Agreed.

Here, they would have a mandatory alcohol safety interlock device fitted for a minimum of two years, at their expense. Then review before a magistrate to have it removed (not easy, the magistrate has the device's records in front of him/her ... ). Very serious consequences for driving any other car, or for trying to bypass it in any way. Even just moving the car in your yard, or explaining why someone else was driving it, could/would trigger an extension.

Over the last 40 years, the death toll in Victoria has dropped from 1,700+ p.a. to around 300+ p.a. A combination of things. Better road markings and signage, better car design (plus airbags, auto-retracting seat belts during collision), compulsory use of 3 point seat belts, compulsory use of baby seats and proper child restraints, serious crackdown on drink/drug driving.

 

[Brownie]

Agreed.

Here, they would have a mandatory alcohol safety interlock device fitted for a minimum of two years, at their expense. Then review before a magistrate to have it removed (not easy, the magistrate has the device's records in front of him/her ... ). Very serious consequences for driving any other car, or for trying to bypass it in any way. Even just moving the car in your yard, or explaining why someone else was driving it, could/would trigger an extension.

Over the last 40 years, the death toll in Victoria has dropped from 1,700+ p.a. to around 300+ p.a. A combination of things. Better road markings and signage, better car design (plus airbags, auto-retracting seat belts during collision), compulsory use of 3 point seat belts, compulsory use of baby seats and proper child restraints, serious crackdown on drink/drug driving.

I could sue, but what would I get? There were no injuries, so none of the bloodsucking attorneys would take it because there isn't enough to be made. Besides the $ for the cars I suppose we could get something for our trouble.

She was a registered nurse. She was driving a brand-new Land Rover. She refused a breathalyzer, which means automatic loss of license. I suspect she has probably lost her job. Her insurance company won't pay for any of her own costs, personal injury or property damage, they will only pay her liability insurance, which means her ins. co. will reimburse ours, then cancel her. They won't fix her car, but she's still responsible to pay for it.

That doesn't reimburse us, but it's sure as hell satisfying.

 

[Clix Pix]

Wow, just catching up to this saga -- WHEW!!! Thank goodness neither of your children was hurt, but this whole thing sounds like a nightmare from the moment it all started to happen. The woman who caused it all definitely deserves to be penalized in various ways, as clearly she was driving irresponsibly. Yes, losing her license and her insurance coverage and having to figure out how to keep up the monthly (loan? lease?) payments for that expensive Range Rover, not to mention adding on the cost of the necessary repairs....that'll set her back plenty. It'll be very difficult for her to now obtain new insurance coverage with this on her record, too. If insurance coverage is a requirement of a lease agreement, which I would think it would be, then she may well lose that Range Rover altogether. From the sound of it, yes it is likely that she also will lose her job, which probably has happened by now. In the long run, it is undoubtedly a good thing to get her off the roads altogether. Too bad for her, I'm sure not at all sad for her. Let her figure out the inconveniences of using public transportation and/or depending upon others for a ride somewhere. She brought all of this down on herself.....

Glad that both your kids are OK and have now found new vehicles to drive, but such a hassle and a worry for both of them and for you!

 

[rpracing]

Agreed.

Here, they would have a mandatory alcohol safety interlock device fitted for a minimum of two years, at their expense. Then review before a magistrate to have it removed (not easy, the magistrate has the device's records in front of him/her ... ). Very serious consequences for driving any other car, or for trying to bypass it in any way. Even just moving the car in your yard, or explaining why someone else was driving it, could/would trigger an extension.

Over the last 40 years, the death toll in Victoria has dropped from 1,700+ p.a. to around 300+ p.a. A combination of things. Better road markings and signage, better car design (plus airbags, auto-retracting seat belts during collision), compulsory use of 3 point seat belts, compulsory use of baby seats and proper child restraints, serious crackdown on drink/drug driving.

Unfortunately here a DUI is a "right of passage" in WI. In the last 2 weeks alone theres been at least 2 idiots arrested for their 9th, yes 9th DUI. Guy down the street was just convicted of his 4th (now a felony in WI to get 4 of them). Most I've seen in the paper was some 50 something woman getting her 17th dui in Milwaukee. Personally after the 3rd dui conviction, they should never be allowed to operate a motor vehicle (including atv's utv's, boats and snowmobiles) ever again.

Oh the guy down the street went by my house in his F250 towing his fishing boat behind him drunk. I should mention the boat was NOT on the trailer, but on the left side of the trailer being dragged on the road only held on the trailer by the winch strap on the bow. Apparently was hanging off for about 3 miles. Someone was following him on the phone to the police.

 

[John King]

Unfortunately here a DUI is a "right of passage" in WI. In the last 2 weeks alone theres been at least 2 idiots arrested for their 9th, yes 9th DUI. Guy down the street was just convicted of his 4th (now a felony in WI to get 4 of them). Most I've seen in the paper was some 50 something woman getting her 17th dui in Milwaukee. Personally after the 3rd dui conviction, they should never be allowed to operate a motor vehicle (including atv's utv's, boats and snowmobiles) ever again.

Oh the guy down the street went by my house in his F250 towing his fishing boat behind him drunk. I should mention the boat was NOT on the trailer, but on the left side of the trailer being dragged on the road only held on the trailer by the winch strap on the bow. Apparently was hanging off for about 3 miles. Someone was following him on the phone to the police.

Apparently "freedom" in the USA means the right to trample on the rights of others.

Should have paid more attention to the writings of Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill and Harriet Taylor Mill.

Please, please, tell me I am wrong!

 

[rpracing]

Apparently "freedom" in the USA means the right to trample on the rights of others.

Should have paid more attention to the writings of Jeremy Bentham, John Stuart Mill and Harriet Taylor Mill.

Please, please, tell me I am wrong!

Well theres no "right" to drive a vehicle in the US. Its a privilege.

 

[John King]

Well theres no "right" to drive a vehicle in the US. Its a privilege.

I totally agree with you.
Serial serious offenders should have either restricted licences or none.