Sony Sony a7c -- FF in an a6000 body

rayvonn

Hall of Famer
Location
London
Thinking of trying something new again. Considering: Fuji s10 for OOC jpgs or the a7c for compactness and the third party lens options.

can anyone comment on the a7c AF and handling vs Fuji s10 (not interested in other Fuji bodies)?
That's an interesting one, I wonder if anyone's been lucky enough to spend time with those two new cameras at the same time at this early stage?
 

serhan

Hall of Famer
Location
NYC
I guess you meant Fuji X-S10. I have only used the XF10. Apart from brand differences, it is more like pen-f/gx-9 body vs EM1 body differences eg depends on the lenses that you want to use... A7C has the latest af from Sony. Sigma has now native primes 24-35-45-65 and Sony has 24-40-50mm prime lenses in addition to existing 28-35-55 and 85mm is also not big to use with A7C... There are also small Samyang 18-24-35-45-75 and Tamron primes... So there are lots of choices with different price levels as small primes. If you want longer reach, then bigger/beefier cameras might be better... I recommend to check them in a shop as size/grip is very personal.

Thinking of trying something new again. Considering: Fuji s10 for OOC jpgs or the a7c for compactness and the third party lens options.

can anyone comment on the a7c AF and handling vs Fuji s10 (not interested in other Fuji bodies)?
 
Location
Switzerland
Name
Matt
Probably not news for all owners, but: I finally had a little time with the A7c yesterday - and I found the EVF absolutely fine, certainly no worse than the completely usable one on the Olympus E-M5 III (in truth, it felt a tad bigger and crisper, and it was perfectly usable with glasses). The camera is very small, too - almost too small for my liking, which surprised me a little, because I found the A6000 okay in the hand. It may be the shape of the grip, but it's hard to tell.

Mainly, though, a much more convenient body than I thought it would be. Cool by me ...

M.
 

CraigC

Top Veteran
Location
Toronto, Canada
Name
Craig
I’m sure you’ll enjoy it Matt. Although not the most “fun” camera out there, it packs a huge IQ and performance punch in a small body - almost m43 small.

The challenge is with larger lenses. I do find the grip comfortable, albeit shallower than the other A7 and A6600 cameras, therefore not as good with longer lenses - not issue with anything ZA 55mm or smaller. I do with it had a bit more height, like a Leica or Fuji RF style camera, to help with the grip - I may add a baseplate to mine.

And yeah, the EVF ain’t great, but it works well enough in most cases. Too bad Sony doesn’t offer an eye cup like the A6xxx series, as that would help no doubt.
 
Location
Switzerland
Name
Matt
I’m sure you’ll enjoy it Matt. Although not the most “fun” camera out there, it packs a huge IQ and performance punch in a small body - almost m43 small.

The challenge is with larger lenses. I do find the grip comfortable, albeit shallower than the other A7 and A6600 cameras, therefore not as good with longer lenses - not issue with anything ZA 55mm or smaller. I do with it had a bit more height, like a Leica or Fuji RF style camera, to help with the grip - I may add a baseplate to mine.

And yeah, the EVF ain’t great, but it works well enough in most cases. Too bad Sony doesn’t offer an eye cup like the A6xxx series, as that would help no doubt.
For the record: I'm not planning on getting back into E mount at this stage - I'm sold on the Z mount, and I enjoy my cameras immensely. Besides, Nikon is going to fix my (dropped!) Z 6 free of charge, so I feel even more convinced I made the right move.

But I think that if I ever consider going for E mount again, I'd certainly pick the A7C over the A7 III or IV (I'd not go any higher up in the line-up - see above) - not because I think it's a better camera, but because it mates a diminuitive size with pretty impressive performance.

I just came back to this thread to say that my reservations about handling and use regarding the A7C are pretty much gone ... And I think that's worth stating because so many people (among them reviewers I usually trust) said harsh things about the handling and the EVF in particular; it's not bad at all in my opinion - maybe it is a bit underwhelming if you consider the price of the camera, but I don't even think that's the case - size was the predominant priority, and what we got is a small, light, sturdy, very well done camera - not a pro tool maybe, but a really nice package.

M.
 
Location
Switzerland
Name
Matt
@MoonMind Matt, have you stuck any Leica mount lenses on the A7c with an adapter? I'd be really interested to see if you can get a good, essentially EVF-based Leica thing going with that little camera.
No, I haven't; but I used my A7 II (and A6000) extensively with adapted lenses, and it worked really well; just assign your focus assist method of choice to a button (I used to use the video button :)), and you're good. I tend to prefer magnification to peaking, btw. Works on other brands as well. The A6000's EVF was clearly worse than the A7C's - but it was absolutely sufficient for focusing (and framing, anyway). So, I'd say it shouldn't be a problem, but YMMV - I'd recommend trying it if at all possible before buying. This isn't a one-size-fits-all game at all ... FWIW, in spite of the adequate functionality of the A7 II, I ended up getting a Leica in the end (and haven't looked back).

M.
 

mnhoj

gee aahrr
Location
Los Angeles
Name
John
Two things. It doesn't feel as bad as it looks. And the 40 was a good choice.
DSC02205.jpg
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CraigC

Top Veteran
Location
Toronto, Canada
Name
Craig
How easy is the exp comp to use with your thumb when the camera is held up to the eye using the EVF?

Very easy to access. It does have a good amount of resistance to prevent accidentally adjustment, while providing nice and sold tactile feel when in use.

Oh, and does live view support over/under exp indicators / zebras?

Yes, there is an exposure meter indicator and you can also have a real time histogram displayed. I believe you can have highlight blown “blinkes” as well.
 

pdk42

Veteran
Location
Royal Leamington Spa, UK
Name
Paul
Very easy to access. It does have a good amount of resistance to prevent accidentally adjustment, while providing nice and sold tactile feel when in use.



Yes, there is an exposure meter indicator and you can also have a real time histogram displayed. I believe you can have highlight blown “blinkes” as well.
Thanks for this. I've become very accustomed to shooting in A mode with one dial controlling aperture and the other controlling exp comp. I find myself spinning the exp comp dial a lot to make sure I've got no blown highlights, hence the need for blinkies/zebras. So, two things are important to me:

1) Easy to move exp comp dial when the camera is at eye level. On the Oly Pen-F, I disable the dedicated exp comp dial and re-assign exp comp to the rear general purpose dial - for the simple reason that the exp comp dial is too stiff. It sounds like it might be the same on the a7c.

2) Over exposure blinkies/zebras. Most reviews never mention whether this is possible, but for me it's an essential point. It was one of the reasons why I gave up with Nikon Z - it would show you over/under indicators on playback, but not on the live view. I assume it won't be a problem on the a7c since I dabbled with an a7rii a few years back and it worked as I wanted so I assume the a7c will be the same.

I'm asking these questions because although I really love my Oly gear, I quite fancy a portable (ish) system with a wide 35mm equiv lens for getting subject separation at this FoV. I know from experience that the 17mm focal length on m43 is just too short to get good background blur, unless you're really very close to the subject. I've tried the CV 17.5 f0.95 and that just about got there, but at f0.95 it was a bit dreamy and I found focus accuracy hard with MF only. The Oly 17mm f1.2 doesn't offer me enough of a difference over the 17mm f1.8 I already have.

So, I've been looking at an Rx1rii, but there are too many downsides - no IS, terrible battery life, poor grip, ... But the a7c might work, esp with the Samyang AF 35mm f1.8 on the front. It wouldn't cost a fortune either.
 

CraigC

Top Veteran
Location
Toronto, Canada
Name
Craig
The A7C should meet both your requirements:

1) You can setup the rear dial or wheel as exposure comp, if you prefer that over the dedicated dial. They will definitely be easy to rotate. The thumb dial better for that than the wheel, when at eye level.

2) There are zebras as well, but I haven't used them. The new Sonys like the A7C, also have highlight weighted metering that prevents them from being blown out, when using the camera's internal meter.

As for FF vs m43, you will definitely get better separation due to the longer actual focal lengths.

Is size a priority? If not, you have a ton of options that m43 would not be able to compete with. Even if you are concerned with size, you could get the Sony 35mm 2.8 lens. That combo with the A7C, is not much larger than the Pen-F and 17mm 1.8, while offering much better low light performance and improved separation of subject from the background. I've had both combos before and the Sony is much better in terms of IQ, but that Pen-F / 17mm is more "fun" and has more "soul".

You're right about the RX1Rii - battery life stinks. Very very poor. The A7C will go on for days with it's Z battery. But, the other two gripes - no IBIS and poor grip - can be overcome with faster shutter speeds (high ISO is great on that camera) and an external add-on grip like the Fotodiox one. Again, I've also had the RX1Rii and still miss the IQ from the 35mm f2 Zeiss lens and the overall compact package - nothing can compare to it in IQ per pound imo.

Going back to the A7C, if you are ok with a lens the size of the Samyang 35mm 1.8 you referenced, you may want to consider the Sigma 35mm f2 I-series lens. It appears to be the closet to the RX1Rii Zeiss lens in terms of rendering.

Size comparison: Compact Camera Meter
 
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pdk42

Veteran
Location
Royal Leamington Spa, UK
Name
Paul
The A7C should meet both your requirements:

1) You can setup the rear dial or wheel as exposure comp, if you prefer that over the dedicated dial. They will definitely be easy to rotate. The thumb dial better for that than the wheel, when at eye level.

2) There are zebras as well, but I haven't used them. The new Sonys like the A7C, also have highlight weighted metering that prevents them from being blown out, when using the camera's internal meter.

As for FF vs m43, you will definitely get better separation due to the longer actual focal lengths.

Is size a priority? If not, you have a ton of options that m43 would not be able to compete with. Even if you are concerned with size, you could get the Sony 35mm 2.8 lens. That combo with the A7C, is not much larger than the Pen-F and 17mm 1.8, while offering much better low light performance and improved separation of subject from the background. I've had both combos before and the Sony is much better in terms of IQ, but that Pen-F / 17mm is more "fun" and has more "soul".

You're right about the RX1Rii - battery life stinks. Very very poor. The A7C will go on for days with it's Z battery. But, the other two gripes - no IBIS and poor grip - can be overcome with faster shutter speeds (high ISO is great on that camera) and an external add-on grip like the Fotodiox one. Again, I've also had the RX1Rii and still miss the IQ from the 35mm f2 Zeiss lens and the overall compact package - nothing can compare to it in IQ per pound imo.

Going back to the A7C, if you are ok with a lens the size of the Samyang 35mm 1.8 you referenced, you may want to consider the Sigma 35mm f2 I-series lens. It appears to be the closet to the RX1Rii Zeiss lens in terms of rendering.

Size comparison: Compact Camera Meter
Thanks for this. I did have the 35mm f2.8 when I had the a7rii and it is a very nice and very compact lens. But it will only get me to f1.4 equiv on m43 which isn't really where I want to be. I think I need f2 min, ideally f1.8 on FF. That's why I fancied that Samyang 35mm f1.8. It seems reasonably compact and gets decent reviews.

But now that you've posted that CameraSize comparison I'm leaning towards that RX1rii again. I guess you're right about the gripes - all can be overcome except battery life. But I may be able to live with that.
 
So I finally flew over the cuckoos nest and traded in my secondary systems (Panny GX80 and Fuji X-E3) with all of their requisite lenses for an a7C. This way I can only buy lenses for one mount, that was the reasoning I used to rationalise this to myself.

I thought that after the X-E3 and Sony a7R III (my main shooter) I'd hate the lesser control arrangement of the a7C, but man was I wrong. This camera fit my hands and purposes from the get go! And compared to my previous secondary shooters - and to a lesser extent even the a7R III - the AF is other worldly! Colour me impressed!
 
It's been a month now with the a7C, so maybe a quick roundup of thoughts might be in order.

First of all, for casual and candid shooting this camera is a hoot to shoot. Almost as fun as the Panasonic GX80. It's nimble, tracks even a 2,5-year old kid well enough to leave my hands free for composing, and in general feels very responsive to use. The fully articulating screen makes it easier to keep to your subjects eye level.

The controls are generally adequate, I miss the AF-joystick much less than I thought. Probably thanks to the realtime tracking AF. The front dial would be nice, but that would've made either the camera larger or battery smaller. Which segways us to one major strong point of the C - the battery life is great! In practice it's not far from DSLR territory.

The smaller size does mean this body balances nicer with smaller lenses. My absolute favourite here has been the Samyang 45/1.8, which I prefer even over the Zeiss 55/1.8. Paired with the 24-105 f/4 G the combo is still perfectly usable, though, but not really for one handed shooting. The kit zoom is a much nicer pairing, or even the Tamron 28-200. But for me the lighter, smaller primes are the most fun with the a7C.

The EVF on the C has received some critique, but I don't really mind it. I'm not comparing it against the DSLR-like bodies, such as my a7R III. Rather here it should compete with other rangefinder-styled bodies. And compared to the previous Panasonic GX80 and Fuji X-E3 I had the EVF is quite good. Miles ahead the GX80's field sequential thing, and slightly better and faster than the one on the X-E3. Good enough for me, anyhow.

What else... The IBIS isn't as good as on the GX80, but it's there and useful. The AF is phenomenal, even better than I'd come to expect with the a7R III. So am I happy? Well, so far quite much so. The shutter release isn't as good as on the R III, but still better than Fuji. And it's not as tiny as those previous rangefinder-styled bodies I had, but now I can use the same glass for both my cameras.

That's it so far.
 
Well, Sony does have this utilitarian esthetic to it's cameras, that's true. They're not "bauhaus", like Leica, nor retro-chique like Fuji. Nor do they have the comfortable grip of a Canon. Even the touchscreen implementation is lacking to be generous... But somehow in the field I've found both my a7R III and a7C to be surprisingly fluent to use. Which is a good thing, since in the end the most enjoyable tools to use - for me at least - are the ones I don't have to think about.

Still, an M10 or an X-E3 is a prettier camera than a7-anything...
 

Brownie

Top Veteran
Well, Sony does have this utilitarian esthetic to it's cameras, that's true. They're not "bauhaus", like Leica, nor retro-chique like Fuji. Nor do they have the comfortable grip of a Canon. Even the touchscreen implementation is lacking to be generous... But somehow in the field I've found both my a7R III and a7C to be surprisingly fluent to use. Which is a good thing, since in the end the most enjoyable tools to use - for me at least - are the ones I don't have to think about.

Still, an M10 or an X-E3 is a prettier camera than a7-anything...
Having purchased the A7 IV and more recently a nice used A7R III, I can tell you the ergonomics are much improved on the IV. I can use it easily without a grip extension, not so with the R III, my pinky has nothing to rest on without the extension. It's also more comfortable to hold, that square boxy feel isn't as prevalent.
 
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