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Sony Sony A7R IV

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Matt
Crazy.

Sony introduces the a7R IV with 61 Megapixel full-frame sensor

More to the point, precisely *not* what I have been waiting for (not that there is anything particularily urgent); the fact that my whole processing chain couldn't handle those files only supports my take on this. However, that's a nail in the coffin of just about any other camera maker (maybe except for Fujifilm ... and possibly Leica).

M.
 

mike3996

Veteran
Apr 2, 2018
104
Looks like a capable camera.

I don't know why this would be a nail in the coffin for anyone else. The new Panasonic S1/R is still a strong candidate. Canon R's for those who can't let go of Canon glass and Nikon Z6/7's a great camera for Sony haters.
 

Tilman Paulin

Top Veteran
Nov 15, 2011
69
Vancouver B.C.
Tilman
Hmm, we're getting to the point that m43 kind of loses it's "crop" advantage :)
Provided the lens is sharp enough you should be able to 2x crop this to a 15MP image?

(Not that I'm going to jump ship from m43 anytime soon. I have a system that works for me - for now... ;) )
 

bassman

Regular
Feb 12, 2014
19
New Jersey, USA
The Bassman
Hmm, we're getting to the point that m43 kind of loses it's "crop" advantage :)
Provided the lens is sharp enough you should be able to 2x crop this to a 15MP image?

(Not that I'm going to jump ship from m43 anytime soon. I have a system that works for me - for now... ;) )
Yes. And the APC crop is 27MP, slightly better than the 24MP typically found there.
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Matt
Looks like a capable camera.

I don't know why this would be a nail in the coffin for anyone else. The new Panasonic S1/R is still a strong candidate. Canon R's for those who can't let go of Canon glass and Nikon Z6/7's a great camera for Sony haters.
I wish I could share your relaxed take on things - but what with the actual developments in the ILC market (Sony gaining ever more ground, everyone else losing in spite of new - and quite good - products) I fear that something as remarkable as the Sony A7R IV will only serve to accelerate the tendency that a majority won't even consider anything else but Sony. That's what triggered my pessimistic outlook in the first post.

Don't get me wrong: This new camera, like the A7 III, is a defining entry into the market. It's a super-competitive move from Sony, once again, and from what I can see, it's simply a smashing camera. That's why the usual crowd of hysterics and "influencers" will go mad and declare the A7R IV the only camera worth owning.

Mark my words: We'll see a further shift in the market, and further damage to all other brands. Enthusiasts unfortunately don't rule the market - everyone else and their mom do ... and they'll be buying into Sony's system. And now, the "only the best is good enough for me" crowd will snuff up the A7R IV like so much cocaine ...

Anyhow, I'd love to be proven wrong - and we'll see, anyway ... I for one will stick with my Z6 simply because I prefer it over the A7 III (let alone anything with more resolution) because it's truely backwards compatible, so I can keep using my trusted Nikon lenses and other gear. Plus it is, in its own right, a very rewarding camera to shoot. And as for my Leicas: Nothing beats them on their own turf. They'll remain niche - which suits me fine.

M.
 

Tilman Paulin

Top Veteran
Nov 15, 2011
69
Vancouver B.C.
Tilman
Just use whatever gear you enjoy using/can afford/already have... :)

I personally don't bother with all the "x versus y gear battles"...
"Does it work for me?" is the only important question.

Sony might put a dent in the main competitors sales, yes - but won't put them out of business... Even Pentax is still around - so we'll be able to use our preferred cameras for quite some time yet :)
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Jul 13, 2011
124
Lexington, Virginia
Steve
Crazy.

Sony introduces the a7R IV with 61 Megapixel full-frame sensor

More to the point, precisely *not* what I have been waiting for (not that there is anything particularily urgent); the fact that my whole processing chain couldn't handle those files only supports my take on this. However, that's a nail in the coffin of just about any other camera maker (maybe except for Fujifilm ... and possibly Leica).

M.
What are you looking for in a mirrorless ILC? Maybe the A9 ii will have you covered. This 61mp beastie only needs a good wide prime and some cropping to be a complete kit. :biggrin:
 

ajramirez

Hall of Famer
Jul 9, 2010
124
Caguas, Puerto Rico
Antonio
I think it's great that Sony is pushing the envelope, even though I do not own, nor intend to own, any Sony cameras. Nothing against them, it's just that when the time came to go mirrorless in earnest, it was easiest to transition to the Nikon Z due to its backward compatibility with Nikon glass.

That being said, if there is any survival risk to the traditional companies, it's mostly their own fault. I jumped ship from Canon DSLR to Nikon back in 2015, simply because I tired of waiting for Canon to produce a camera with a sensor which was competitive with what Nikon had been producing (or acquiring from Sony, as the case may be).

I bought the Z6 because I was curious about the technology. It has turned out to be an outstanding camera in every sense. Handling is the best of any camera I have owned, bar none (save maybe for the Leica M, which is simply a completely different experience). Image quality is top notch, and the two Z lenses I own are excellent.

However, Nikon has allowed the reputation of the camera to be unnecessarily tarnished, from the premature rubber wear issues, to the alleged inferior autofocus system. I am convinced that, particularly as to the second issue, they are nothing more than PR issues which, having essentially being left unattended by Nikon (from a PR standpoint) have apparently impacted the reputation and possibly the sales of the cameras.

Nikon needs to round out its Z lens lineup, and step up its PR efforts with its new offerings. It also needs to be more responsive to quality issues with its products. Odds for survival would, IMO, be much more improved.

Cheers,

Antonio
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Matt
What are you looking for in a mirrorless ILC? Maybe the A9 ii will have you covered. This 61mp beastie only needs a good wide prime and some cropping to be a complete kit. :biggrin:
Maybe - but what I'd really like is a FF camera with a solid 24MP sensor (as the latest generation of Sony and Nikon cameras have) and the A7 III's (or similar) AF capabilities, but crucially, smaller, rangefinder style with a usable EVF. No crazy burst rates or anything, just reliable and fluid in operation, and with files that don't clog up my storage in no time. Something rather simple and compact, in fact - but not too simplistic: I'd be partial to enough controls - two control dials, and(!) preferrably a dedicated exposure compensation dial (look at the top of the A7R IV ... though I don't need a mode dial). *Not* the Sigma fd, *not* the A7R IV - something in the middle, somehow ...

To be a bit more descriptive, something like a Q (or Q2 - in spite of the resolution) with interchangeable lenses (L mount or otherwise - though I'd really, really love Nikon to drop something like this, but that most probably won't happen) would hit the spot for me. That's what I'm missing in today's market: Everything that's slick and small is only available with an APS-C sensor inside - yet Leica has shown that you can create a FF camera with all the necessary ingredients that's RF style and still pleasantly compact; yet sadly, they decided to keep it fixed-lens.

By the same token, the Q2 might be considered the only camera one needs - but I don't like being limited to one lens, whatever cropping powers the sensor might offer. I can't help finding it strange to buy a powerhouse camera only to use part of its powers as a matter of course. Besides, if I continued to shoot RAW, the file size would still be a problem...

M.
 

ajramirez

Hall of Famer
Jul 9, 2010
124
Caguas, Puerto Rico
Antonio
Maybe - but what I'd really like is a FF camera with a solid 24MP sensor (as the latest generation of Sony and Nikon cameras have) and the A7 III's (or similar) AF capabilities, but crucially, smaller, rangefinder style with a usable EVF. No crazy burst rates or anything, just reliable and fluid in operation, and with files that don't clog up my storage in no time. Something rather simple and compact, in fact - but not too simplistic: I'd be partial to enough controls - two control dials, and(!) preferrably a dedicated exposure compensation dial (look at the top of the A7R IV ... though I don't need a mode dial). *Not* the Sigma fd, *not* the A7R IV - something in the middle, somehow ...

To be a bit more descriptive, something like a Q (or Q2 - in spite of the resolution) with interchangeable lenses (L mount or otherwise - though I'd really, really love Nikon to drop something like this, but that most probably won't happen) would hit the spot for me. That's what I'm missing in today's market: Everything that's slick and small is only available with an APS-C sensor inside - yet Leica has shown that you can create a FF camera with all the necessary ingredients that's RF style and still pleasantly compact; yet sadly, they decided to keep it fixed-lens.

By the same token, the Q2 might be considered the only camera one needs - but I don't like being limited to one lens, whatever cropping powers the sensor might offer. I can't help finding it strange to buy a powerhouse camera only to use part of its powers as a matter of course. Besides, if I continued to shoot RAW, the file size would still be a problem...

M.
A full frame CL would be sweet...

I think I would be happy if Nikon brought out a set of compact, pancake or not, primes for the Z. I would grab compact 35mm 2.8 and 90mm 4.0 lenses in a second.

I realize that AF motors take space, but given the size of my M primes, I simply do not understand why mirrorless lenses have to be so large.

Cheers,

Antonio
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Matt
A full frame CL would be sweet...

I think I would be happy if Nikon brought out a set of compact, pancake or not, primes for the Z. I would grab compact 35mm 2.8 and 90mm 4.0 lenses in a second.

I realize that AF motors take space, but given the size of my M primes, I simply do not understand why mirrorless lenses have to be so large.

Cheers,

Antonio
Spot on, Antonio - that's why I hope Samyang get their act together and bring out the 35mm f/2.8 that's available for FE right now. It's a great little lens - a bit flimsy, but really good optics. And I'd love the new Sigma 45mm f/2.8 C to be available for Z mount as well ... The bridge might just be on its way - the Techart adapter I mentioned is very interesting, and first results are encouraging. But alas, no Samyang support yet.

A FF CL - now *that* would be a no-brainer ...

M.
 

drd1135

Zen Snapshooter
Jul 13, 2011
124
Lexington, Virginia
Steve
Maybe - but what I'd really like is a FF camera with a solid 24MP sensor (as the latest generation of Sony and Nikon cameras have) and the A7 III's (or similar) AF capabilities, but crucially, smaller, rangefinder style with a usable EVF. No crazy burst rates or anything, just reliable and fluid in operation, and with files that don't clog up my storage in no time. Something rather simple and compact, in fact - but not too simplistic: I'd be partial to enough controls - two control dials, and(!) preferrably a dedicated exposure compensation dial (look at the top of the A7R IV ... though I don't need a mode dial). *Not* the Sigma fd, *not* the A7R IV - something in the middle, somehow ...

To be a bit more descriptive, something like a Q (or Q2 - in spite of the resolution) with interchangeable lenses (L mount or otherwise - though I'd really, really love Nikon to drop something like this, but that most probably won't happen) would hit the spot for me. That's what I'm missing in today's market: Everything that's slick and small is only available with an APS-C sensor inside - yet Leica has shown that you can create a FF camera with all the necessary ingredients that's RF style and still pleasantly compact; yet sadly, they decided to keep it fixed-lens.

By the same token, the Q2 might be considered the only camera one needs - but I don't like being limited to one lens, whatever cropping powers the sensor might offer. I can't help finding it strange to buy a powerhouse camera only to use part of its powers as a matter of course. Besides, if I continued to shoot RAW, the file size would still be a problem...

M.
Leica and Panasonic could do this together, primarily because of the need for all new lenses. The L mount would work since the AF lenses would already exist for the Panasonic FF mirrorless SLR style bodies. I wonder how small the body could be. An RF style body would probably be seen as an enthusiast and not a true pro model. On the other hand, the enthusiast market is much bigger than the pro market.
 
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rayvonn

All-Pro
Jan 19, 2015
124
Never owned a Sony but am forever grateful for what they have done and what they are doing which, to me, is keeping everyone on their toes. Those new Canikon mirrorless thingies - do we really beleive they would have released them if weren't for Sony? They were quite happy to keep deciding what was and was not good for us and there almost seemed to be a "Happy Now?" aproach when they went FF mirrorless. This new Sony release, will force them to keep raising the bar. Not only that, the price of an A7/II is going to go down even more now.
 

MoonMind

Hall of Famer
Dec 29, 2013
124
Switzerland
Matt
To be clear: What's happening isn't Sony's fault - quite the opposite, in fact. They did their homework extremely well, and so, the A7R IV is basically spot-on as to what the market demands or accepts at the moment. But I see the whole market moving towards a kind of monopoly or dictatorship that I don't think is healthy. Of course, that's mainly the fault of the other makers for not jumping on the bandwagon soon enough. I hope enough people still value choice - but I'm not so sure that's the case.

M.
 

Matero

Top Veteran
Jan 28, 2014
104
Helsinki, Finland
For me Sony will never work and 98% of other auto-focus lenses as well. I’m going towards another direction.

Aesthetics of the camera+lens combo is as important as the quality of pictures for me. Quality of the digital cameras have topped my skills so many times already. I don’t need anything ‘more’ for my photography. Less is more for me in many ways where I am in my life.

Example of camera+lense combo I would never use.

From DPreview: Sony a7R IV sample gallery
 

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