stupid effing RAW formats

Thanks all for your thoughtful responses to a grown man's pout. Most of the time I'm more than satisfied with JPEGs. Frankly with my normal cameras of choice I can pretty much bend the JPEGs every which way and they almost never break. But I was trying out a Fuji superzoom and was just wondering if I could do better from a RAW than a JPEG and it appears that the answer I'm getting is not without jumping through hoops (and it's just not important enough for me).
 
I have given up using RAW some time ago, more than happy enough with Jpeg's and I find there are enough options in lightroom anyway to tweak the Jpeg files to my satisfaction. I spend all day at the office staring at my computer screen already, I prefer not to do the same in my private time, so less is more in my case as far as processing goes..:)
 
There are two cameras in my experience that produce eminently usable jpegs straight out of the camera. The Leica Digilux 2/LC-1 and the X10.

Let me add two cameras from my experience :) Nikon D40 and Olympus EM5.
My wife's Nikon D40 always made much nicer jpgs than either my D80 or D5000. Jpg-quality was also one of the deciding factors for me to switch from the wonderful Sigma DP's to the OMD EM-5 I'm using now.
Still, for some high contrast situations it's good to have RAW. Lightrooms default rendering isn't great compared to the jpg-colours, but since I got the Huelight profile for it (best 10$ you can spend if you have the EM5 and Lightroom) I'm really happy.


All that said, if you're a bit in a rut at the moment, adding complexity to your work probably isn't the best :)

For me it helps to just break it down to one camera. That removes the frustration of too much choice. You may not have THE perfect camera for a specific situation, but that doesn't matter: you have no choice :)

Another great pressure-remover is a small camera. I always felt pressured that I "have to take at least one good shot" when I was carrying around a heavy DSLR and lenses. With a small camera it doesn't matter so much if you don't see anything on one day. There's not the frustration of "stowing away all the gear" at the end of the day (and the tired shoulders) without having a result to show for it...
 
Raw format, shraw format...sometimes you just lose interest in photography for a bit. A week, a month, a year, maybe more. Been there, done that. My only advice is not to force it. Setting myself a photography project doesn't work for me at all. Instead I just wait for it to come back to me, which it has every time so far.
 
As Nic says, raw frustration and general photographic malaise are two different things. Raw is like anything else in high tech - if you want to work with the latest, you have to HAVE the latest. A 1988 PC won't run the current version of Windows, and MS-DOS 2.0 won't run Office 2011. Adobe tends to add camera raw support for their latest software but not make the effort to make it backward compatible - if they did, how far back should they go?

Similarly, whenever there's a new camera, it takes the software folks a little while to work it all out and offer support. Sometimes this is fairly complex, like with a whole new type of sensor (like the X-trans or Sigma Foveon, which still isn't supported and may not be), sometimes its so simple it makes you wonder why it even takes ten seconds. I was rather surprised after my first shots with the Fuji XM1, which has the SAME sensor and processing as the XE1 and X-Pro1 and X100s (all supported) that Lightroom 5 wouldn't open its files. I'm reasonably certain that if I'd been willing to use some exif tool to change the identifier in those files to XE1 from XM1, they'd have opened flawlessly. But, that's just how it is. I don't blame the Adobe folks for wanting to have a look and make sure there are no additional tricks in those files that they need to account for before "supporting" them.

And people say they should all just have a universal standard, but even universal isn't all that universal. Ricoh uses Adobe's "universal" DNG format, but when the GR came out, its DNG files had some real color issues in the latest version of Lightroom, until Adobe updated the color profile which they released more or less with Lightroom 5 and which they may or may not have ever bothered to update Lightroom 4 to work with (kind of stopped following that issue once I had LR 5 and didn't have the GR anymore)? So, yeah, it was "universal" and it opened, but it didn't really open RIGHT until the software folks did what they do to support it. And if everything was universal, might that not hamper advances and ingenuity? The Foveon sensors were pretty outside the box and I'd have hated what they'd have become if they'd been spending all of their time figuring out how to bend those files into DNGs rather than how to make them amazing, which they are.

Everything has its hassles and most of them are for a reason, even if its hard to see it sometimes. I'd still rather deal with the occasional hassles and frustration and support issues than only have jpegs available to shoot with. Because for most cameras with most shots, there's just a LOT more there to work with in the raw files. And if it seems like a lot of work, its not if you just set up LR or Aperture to process your files on import - that's really no more work and only slightly more time consuming that using jpeg. And when you get to that really tough shot that is either meh or amazing, depending on what you do with it, you can almost always do a lot more with a raw file than a jpeg.

-Ray
 
I'm in the same predicament Luke. Thus far I've been fiddling with jpegs but I know that if I ever want to do raw I will have to upgrade. Might as well student discount it and get it over with but I am stubborn. I'm the one that used Photoshop 2 until 10 came out refusing to upgrade because it still worked. LR3 came out only a short time ago, 2-3 years? and then there was 4 right after I purchased and now 5. Paul has it about right with the TLR except that unless you develop, film processing places are now few and far between as well as going to the local store to get the film. You have to order it. Choose your PITA :D

By the way will my current Nik software still work with LR5? I think.. i recall using the beta and it adopted the software without my installing any of it and it did work but at the moment I have sometimers and can't recall what I was doing in.. what.. june.. other than prepping for vacation.

Also want to add that if none of it is giving you joy right now and it's not just a software update that has you irked, as Nic said, give yourself a little time off. Don't force yourself. Take a long deep breath for a few weeks or however long it takes. Everyone gets into a funk at some time or another. That's when you just hang out and chatter with others ;)
 
This could be fixed very quickly. Adobe and Apple need only to send out news releases informing the industry that they will only recognize DNG raw files going forward. Existing profiles would stay, of course. And even within the DNG format, there would be individual camera profiles. There would be a lot of gnashing of teeth and threats of lawsuits and the Internet forums would be aflame for a bit... and then it would pass.
 
This could be fixed very quickly. Adobe and Apple need only to send out news releases informing the industry that they will only recognize DNG raw files going forward. Existing profiles would stay, of course. And even within the DNG format, there would be individual camera profiles. There would be a lot of gnashing of teeth and threats of lawsuits and the Internet forums would be aflame for a bit... and then it would pass.

Assuming it could be done so easily (not that it would be easy to get Adobe and Apple to cooperate that fully), would it necessarily be better? In some ways, I suspect yes - almost any raw file should nominally be able to be opened immediately and at any time. Whether fully supported and looking good is another question, but at least it would open and you could do SOMETHING with it. But would it stifle innovation in sensors / formats, etc? I don't know that it would, but I can certainly see the possibility that it could... Or it would just perhaps take that much longer for some companies (probably the smaller companies taking more interesting chances - the Fujis and Sigmas for example) to bring cameras to market. Getting a camera's raw processing worked out already takes a lot of cooperation between the camera maker and the software companies. I'd guess that will still be the case (Adobe would probably have to spend as much time helping Ricoh and Fuji etc getting their DNG files put together as they currently do working with them to get their own raw support together), but the onus just APPEARS to shift to the camera makers from the software folks. Meanwhile, there are no cameras out there producing jpegs with better feature sets for longer while they struggle to get the DNG files up to snuff.

I don't know that it wouldn't be better - but I can see the possibility that it would change the nature of the problems somewhat without really solving any of them.

-Ray
 
I don't think DNG is all that difficult. Adobe generally support new raw formats with their DNG converter as soon as they update LR and ACR to read them.
If the raw file is easy to deal with. But the DNG converter didn't help with any of the X-Trans issues and I'm quite sure the Sigma raw files aren't convertible. It eliminates some problems but not the tough ones... And I doubt Adobe adds raw support for the DNG converter any faster than they do for Lightroom, anyway, do they?

-Ray
 
If the raw file is easy to deal with. But the DNG converter didn't help with any of the X-Trans issues and I'm quite sure the Sigma raw files aren't convertible. It eliminates some problems but not the tough ones... And I doubt Adobe adds raw support for the DNG converter any faster than they do for Lightroom, anyway, do they?

-Ray

They do. When I bought my Canon G1X very soon after it was released I was immediately able to convert the CR2 files to a DNG format that was compatible with the older version of Photoshop I had at the time.

Converting something like a Fuji raw file to DNG won't make it any easier to edit, it just converts it to a common file type. The actual profile required to make LR or ACR software read the RAF files properly is a problem that Adobe and Fuji need to sort out between themselves.
 
1. Every manufacturer of every camera that supports a raw format releases that camera with a free piece of software that can read those files. Why not just download that?

2. The Adobe DNG converter updates as regularly as Camera RAw does and gives you a free way to get a raw file to be supported by Photoshop/Lightroom.

3. CApture One, Adobe, Corel make their money selling software. I don't think it's reasonable to moan that you're not getting support on old software because you're not exactly supporting them either. People who want to shoot new model cameras in raw, using an independant converter should factor the potential cost of an upgrade into their purchase decision.

Gordon
 
I understand your point Gordon, but the software is less than 2 years old. And I'm one of those people that actually buys a copy. And there are nearly identical programs out there for free.

Sure I could use the crapware the camera company gives me and turn the RAF files into TIFFs. Then bring into Lightroom or Photoshop, but again that defeats the point of buying an all-in-one solution.
 
I understand your point Gordon, but the software is less than 2 years old. And I'm one of those people that actually buys a copy. And there are nearly identical programs out there for free.

Sure I could use the crapware the camera company gives me and turn the RAF files into TIFFs. Then bring into Lightroom or Photoshop, but again that defeats the point of buying an all-in-one solution.

Adobe actually bought the rights to their photo sw from the guys who now sell capture one. Lol, these guys still get royalty payments from adobe. If I did not already use aperture as my sw solution, I would have picked up capture one. They have a free trial for both their normal and lite versions.

Anyway an alternative to think about.
Gary
 
If the raw file is easy to deal with. But the DNG converter didn't help with any of the X-Trans issues and I'm quite sure the Sigma raw files aren't convertible. It eliminates some problems but not the tough ones... And I doubt Adobe adds raw support for the DNG converter any faster than they do for Lightroom, anyway, do they?

-Ray

Actually they seem to do a better job w/ dng converter then trying to keep older versions of their sw up to date w/ new raw support.

Edit - opps just noticed LuckyPenguin already said basically the same thing.

Gary
 
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