Manual Lens The Great Equalizer: A camera body for adapted MF lenses ONLY

mike3996

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I have thought about it, discarded it a few times, then got hyped about it again.

Getting a camera body solely for the purposes of adapting older goodies. I don't have to care what the native lens options are for the given body, all I care are the specs of the body and how it enables me to shoot adapted lenses.

The body should be perfectly fit for what I want to do (good workflow when working with MF lenses), and additionally I shouldn't really experiment with the lenses native to the body too much.

An interesting constraint! ...but why?

We could say every lens is designed for a body or a body specification -- a system. They work the best there. The AF works, if present. Apertures open and close automatically for taking and viewing. Informations get recorded into EXIF data.

Whenever a foreign lens is adapted to a world of native lenses and bodies, the experience is less. In some cases, with the help of electronical smart adapters you can get almost everything the native lens does, but we're talking mainly about Canon EF or Nikon G here.

The body is a master of the native lenses and a jack of all the adapted lenses.

In this sense maybe a body without native lenses (they can exist but maybe I just don't buy them: maybe they're expensive or not optically desirable) is a true great equalizer of glass. Whatever I mount on the body with the help of an adapter, has to be manually opened and closed, focused manually, metered closed down, no matter the make or model. This makes all my lenses equal to each other. I don't have to "favor" a native lens just because it's the most convenient to shoot: I have my entire catalogue available, without any second thoughts. Canon or Nikon, Leica or Pentax or Helios or a Schneider or Angenioux, all same to the system.

This is probably the notion that interests me so much. I have my Leica M which does so nicely with native M/M39 lenses and so poorly with adapted lenses. Same story with Nikon Df or Panasonic G9 or whatever. It naturally skews me towards their lens selection.

They say lenses are the system. I tend to agree! Maybe without native lenses I can make my system one with all the lenses?

What do you think? Insane to put big monies into a body that never will be used to its intended potential? Or that there's a liberating aspect about the "equalizer" angle?

A word about bodies

When it comes to body choices, the medium format Fujifilms are particularly favored among the adapters. They can handle a little cropping if your favorite SLR lens doesn't draw an image circle big enough, and it's always a most pleasant surprise to see your favorite 35mm lens covers the entire MF sensor.

Of course a 35mm sensor against 35mm system lenses is a good idea and nobody is preventing having a smaller sensor still. Fujifilms, APSC Sonys and Canons, M4/3 bodies, there's selection to choose from!

But I personally like the SLR lenses for their old-timey character, and that said character is most prominently found on the edges and corners of the image so for me a crop sensor doesn't sound too appealing. Your mileage may vary!





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I have tangented this idea quite a few times before, sorry if you found this a bit repetitive or rewarmed.
 
I think if I were to shoot adapted lenses while keeping within a reasonable budget (used under $1500 USD), I'd probably opt for either the Nikon Z6 or A7III. Nikon can utilize the focus confirmation light with certain adapters and Sony has excellent magnification features while keeping a fast frame rate. Also both cameras have built-in IBIS giving more leeway to shoot in various lighting conditions. Though I'd HIGHLY consider getting a thin sensor stack glass modification to maximize the corners (around a $500 USD procedure). The Nikon Z bodies have a thinner native stack, but both Nikon and Sony will benefit by going thinner especially for rangefinder lenses.
 
The body would have to have it’s own set of adaptors to translate the specific lens language to the common body language, so they would have to reverse engineer everyone hard/soft/firm/cuddly ware. It should be doable. I don’t think any current manufacturer would be interested unless they thought they could sell more of their lenses that way and compensate for the loss of body sales. For an entirely other group, that body would have to be on par with everyone else’s. A company like JIP (they just bought Olympus’ imagining division) might do it if they thought they could make extra money from their newly acquired photographic expertise. Of course, the sensor size would be interesting. The smaller the sensor that wider the range of lenses. Mu43 would actually work fine, like a modified OMD body with killer IBIS. APS-C would be good as well.

I know I went right to feasibility, but I rarely use adapted lenses so I have very little experience with what it’s like shooting with them.
 
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For several years adapted lenses were all I used. I started with Sony, both APS-C and FF in a used A7. Lots of fun, lots of nice images. Then I dabbled with Pentax for a while, then went to mu43, then to Fuji, then back to mu43, then Fuji, then . . . errrm, you get the idea. As I got older, I found my keeper rate with longer adapted lenses was declining. I eventually purged all but my Pen F 38/1.8, which I have used successfully on a lot of mounts. It still sits on my shelf, and I may still one day buy another older digital camera to adapt the 38/1.8. I really like that lens. I wish it covered the image circle on a FF, because I've always like the 40-ish FOV.
 
I’ve raised this issue before ages ago and remember @Ad Dieleman saying the Sonys were less than ideal for adapting if the camera model was earlier than the A7III or IV and @MoonMind advising that the Z6 wasn’t as good as those earlier Sony’s for adapting. Turns out that the Canon RP is also unfortunately not the best either unless using Canon lenses in respect to its sensor which is a shame given its lovely size. These are all FF focus peaking options of course, but then you may not need them if your goal is primarily for bokeh shots. If that’s what you want, I found the X-T1 with its evf, manual controls to be excellent, yes even where foliage was in a shot, PP through Iridient Developer was the key there in terms of rendering. Any m43 camera would be good too, just taking advantage of the centre of the lens’ image circle which is where you’d be aiming most of your shots if shooting wide open anyway. I’m actually considering just adapting legacy lenses to my dslr, successfully getting the Takumars adapted to that Nikon sensor seems like a real winner. Yes, no focus peaking but I believe compromises have to be made when adapting and the achievement of getting nice images would be real. At this stage, I believe adapting wide angle lenses is generally a no-no.
 
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I referred to SLR lenses mainly because they adapt cleaner to mirrorless bodies. Rangefinder lenses are tough. :)

When your lenses don't automatically stop down for taking, or allow P/S programs, or autofocus, it leads to that often-touted "more careful shooting experience". I believe that.

The host camera suddenly has a different set of skills it has to have, in order to be eligible for this job. AF means nothing, suddenly. Weather sealing is probably another thing that would go to waste since the old lenses hardly ever were fully protected. Big megapixel counts are also something that can be a hindrance for manual focus uses.

Instead we place heightened requirements for screen and EVF resolutions, manual focus help and such things.

Nikon Z6 in particular emerges quite nicely at the near top of the cameras. I am myself partial towards Leica SL2-S, or Panasonic S models, simply because I know and prefer their design philosophies over others. Fuji GFX could be a good choice not because I need the IQ but because I know the native GF lenses propose absolutely zero interest to me. It would be super easy to avoid getting a single native lens.
 
I just want to add that I have, in the meantime, found ways to make the Z bodies works nicely enough with adapted lenses - to the point that I'm contemplating getting new/additional adapters, even a "dumb" Nikon F to Nikon Z adapter (the Novoflex is far from "dumb" in my opinion - very well thought out and made, very practical).

The key point: I had to find a button that was easy to reach to cover for magnification - one that was present on both bodies (Z 6, Z 50). And since I don't use the video button, I chose that. It now works very quickly for magnification (I don't like focus peaking for deliberate work and determining critical sharpness - it's very useful for quickly getting into the ballpark, though), and while I still think the fact that the Sony actually displays a frame around the area it's going to magnify is preferable, the Nikon configuration is working without major drawbacks now. And the Nikon EVFs are very nice to use (both of them - the Z 50's is one of the best in its class!).

M.
 
Back in the day when I was considering these cameras, I watched and studied several Youtbe videos about Z6/7 in manual-focus work. It appears like a good tool for that.

I know from Panasonic design that their cameras have a good picture-in-picture style magnification so they're good too, maybe better than Nikons.

Fujifilm of course goes very top because they have that nice Dual view mode that works beautifully at least on my XT1 and XT3 when I tested them. GFX50R has on paper a 0.77x 3.6MP OLED EVF so in theory it should be as good as the XT series.

Leica SL2S has a sharp EVF and probably the best focus peaking algorithms on the market (judging by my experience with Q and M).


I may not want to get this discussion railroad into a "this or that camera" type of technical discussion but right now, for myself, I'd be looking between the €5k Leica SL2S and €3.5k Fuji GFX50R if I wanted to get a body for foreign lenses. Personal preferences drive me towards the SL2S because it has some serious design things that really tickle my fancy.
 
I got a Sony a7II for that exact purpose.
Bought it just before the a7III would come out. Great price reductions and there was a cash back as well.
No talk of Nikon mirrorless then.
I have 1 native 35mm lens. Makes for a really compact walk-around camera. No others will be added.
I use m42, F mount, including pre-Ai, PK mount and M mount on this camera without any issue.
 
I’ve raised this issue before ages ago and remember @Ad Dieleman saying the Sonys were less than ideal for adapting if the camera model was earlier than the A7III or IV and @MoonMind advising that the Z6 wasn’t as good as those earlier Sony’s for adapting. Turns out that the Canon RP is also unfortunately not the best either unless using Canon lenses in respect to its sensor which is a shame given its lovely size. These are all FF focus peaking options of course, but then you may not need them if your goal is primarily for bokeh shots. If that’s what you want, I found the X-T1 with its evf, manual controls to be excellent, yes even where foliage was in a shot, PP through Iridient Developer was the key there in terms of rendering. Any m43 camera would be good too, just taking advantage of the centre of the lens’ image circle which is where you’d be aiming most of your shots if shooting wide open anyway. I’m actually considering just adapting legacy lenses to my dslr, successfully getting the Takumars adapted to that Nikon sensor seems like a real winner. Yes, no focus peaking but I believe compromises have to be made when adapting and the achievement of getting nice images would be real. At this stage, I believe adapting wide angle lenses is generally a no-no.
A7iv isn’t out yet. Did you mean the A7RIV?
 
All I can add is that I have and love several older MF lenses on the Sony E-Mount.


I have had about 15 different lenses come and go, keeping three. A 50mm Close Focus, a 70-150mm and a 45mm. While I love my AF and the Sony Eye Auto Focus is an absolute joy it is kind of nice to slow down just a bit.

And the lenses are often such a great deal, the most I paid was $60. Almost every old mount is supported and you have the option of live focusing via the color peaking or by zooming in closer via magnification.

From the 70-150mm

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From the 50mm Close Focus

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And the 45mm

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If I had a larger budget and more time, the camera I always fantasized about - and I don't think it really meets the parameters laid out so elegantly and logically by Mike - would be a Ricoh GXR with an M-Mount lens-sensor - and the ability to use a lot of older M-Mount lenses (including Voigtlanders, Zeiss, Minoltas and Leicas, among others). I remember there was a very very cool data page on the GXR which was put together, in loving detail, by Gerd Waloszek, which laid out his experiments with a lot of older M-mount lenses that alternately fascinated me, made me drool, and made me a little nervous (that I might actually lay out the cash for a GXR body with the M-mount "lensor"). Part of me still thinks about trying it some day... :coco:
 
I have a Fujifilm X-T20 for adapting my Canon FD lenses, which I use with a (budget) focal reducer; it's gives me an outfit reminiscent of my first Canon SLR. With the onboard film simulations, it can be a very satisfying experience, BUT I am so used to having bodies with IBIS (micro four thirds, plus compacts) that it takes more effort to get good shots! Not to mention autofocus - I I've just become very lazy 😕😜
 
m4/3 is good for adapting lenses except for the crop factor - both the lessened utility of focal lengths that are all suddenly telephoto, and the magnification of every optical flaw that didn't show up on film.
A quality focal reducer can make a huge difference, although not bringing back all of the "lost" focal length.

I've played with the good, the bad, and the ugly. Stay away from anything with a retail price under $100. The Metabones is clearly the king, but Viltrox and Zhongyi come darned close for 1/4th the money, especially with longer lenses. The "Metabones edge" over the competition gets better the wider you go.
I am so used to having bodies with IBIS
Here here! That's the main reason I suggest this route! The OP wasn't interested in modern camera "bells and whistles," but getting outstanding IBIS is one that I think would be of interest to a legacy lens shooter.

I shoot mostly legacy Olympus OM System glass. The OM-D E-M1 Mark II supports it very well. Both focus peaking and focus magnification work well with adapted manual focus glass. There are ten slots for storing EXIF information about non-electronic lenses, and the camera uses the focal length information to optimize IBIS.

Here's the amazingly light, compact, and SHARP OM 500mm ƒ/8 Reflex — one of the best mirror lenses ever made — on a Kipon Baveyes focal reducer, for an effective 350/5.6. This was taken hand-held, from the deck of a moving boat! The Kipon causes some vignetting I don't see on other focal reducers.
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I have Viltrox Minolta to Sony speedbooster for my A6000 and Zhongyui Lens Turbo II in Canon EF to Fuji X (but I use it for M42 with an additional thin dumb adapter stacked on top of speedbooster). Both work very well, I'm completely satisfied.

Would be handy to add IBIS to the equation, though, it would help greatly for longer lenses and in low light situations also. As Fuji bodies that have IBIS are newer and will remain expensive for some time, I started looking to M43 as a viable option. EM5 II, I guess, for it's 5 axis IBIS, solid EVF and overall compactness.
 
Here here! That's the main reason I suggest this route! The OP wasn't interested in modern camera "bells and whistles," but getting outstanding IBIS is one that I think would be of interest to a legacy lens shooter.

I shoot mostly legacy Olympus OM System glass. The OM-D E-M1 Mark II supports it very well. Both focus peaking and focus magnification work well with adapted manual focus glass. There are ten slots for storing EXIF information about non-electronic lenses, and the camera uses the focal length information to optimize IBIS.
Don't get me wrong, I welcome an IBIS to be sure. My current object of desire, SL2S, has one that's supposed to be a decent one. Of course not on the level of Olympus.

Olympus sure has the best stabilization doesn't it. The rest of the competition comes pretty far back.

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On the subject of speed boosters in the context of this topic.

I have often eyed the Metabones speed boosters, and cheaper ones as well, for my G9. Ultimately it always comes back to two problems:

  • A Metabones speed booster plus a crop sensor body practically always comes at a higher cost than just going for a FF camera.

    Not a terrible situation if you really like to shoot the native lenses at times, to keep your setup compact as designed. Then at times you'd mount the speed booster and get good things going. But these speed boosters cost so dearly it becomes a very tough value proposition.

    There are good affordable boosters like from Viltrox but we still have the problem # 2:

  • Boosters once again lock you into a given mount. Have a nice booster for Nikon F? Cool. You are thinking about a cool looking Canon FD lens, but will you buy another booster solely for Canon FD, just for this one lens for the time being?

    Having boosters around for your camera again elevates preference for those mounts that you have boosters for. Again, a situation I want to minimize to the best of my ability.

    Going FF or larger helps to keep this "threshhold of exploring new mounts" very low as you can manage with nonelectronic pieces of metal.
 
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