The New Ricoh GR Announced and Available for Pre-Order ($797 at B&H)

Isoterica

Hall of Famer
Dec 6, 2011
For me, the question is now whether to cancel my GR pre-order. It's not like I can't buy one down the road if firmware updates make a big difference. Right now, I am leaning strongly in this direction, especially since some unexpected expenses came up this week. And it's not like I can't get decent low-light results with my E-PM2 - or even my GX1 - with the 20mm f/1.7 or 14mm f/2.5. Not as compact as the GR, of course, but workable.
Same here only I don't have an alternate choice as a compact.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
AF speed in good light with these cameras isn't an issue for me at all. But low light AF occasionally is, so that's a definite point in favor of the Nikon at least at this point. I know Ricoh is pretty good about bringing out firmware updates, but whether basic AF capability is something they'll be able to improve is something we'll have to see. Fuji sure managed to do it a number of times now, but Ricoh may or may not be able to, depending on how close to meeting its physical potential it is at release. The Nikon isn't bad in low light - pretty similar to the Fujis (but without the need to find something vertical to focus on) and the RX1 - not in the same league as the OMD or similar m43 cameras with reasonably fast lenses...

The color is an issue for me. I'm simply not that good at working with color and don't trust myself to fix these files in post if they're really bad enough that I'd want to. I went back and looked at my GXR-28 DNG files and they look pretty good in color to me, right off the bat. And I like those files a lot. So that could send me scurrying to the Nikon as well. But the B&W quality of the Ricoh files might be awfully enticing...

-Ray
 

Andrewteee

All-Pro
Jul 8, 2010
To know if the GR is right for you'll have to try it for yourself. No review can definitively answer that question for anyone. Ming's commentary is very in-depth and informative, but he has his style of shooting and we each have our own. I consider the GR a first generation camera even though it has good genes. It might take a try or two to get it just right for many people. But I believe that Ricoh will put all they can into this camera.

I shoot primarily B&W so I'm excited to try the GR. As far as color goes, I can set up custom profiles in Iridient Developer.

I think we are fortunate to have so many serious compact options today. Surely there's a camera for everyone.
 

aleksanderpolo

Regular
Apr 18, 2013
Polo
I never really trusted matrix metering on GXR. So I always use center weight and a -1 -2 bracketing, gives me more control and so far no clipping even on that more limited 12MP sensor. The exposure compensation button is easy to access too if needed.

The color issue can be an adobe profile thing, as someone commented on Ming's blog.

Quote
"Todd says:
May 7, 2013 at 9:35 PM
A camera profile is not /needed/ with DNG, but having one does affect the outcome; prior to being officially supported, one can open the photo in ACR with full functionality, but they default to an embedded profile for colours/tones. Think of official support as someone at Adobe creating a custom profile for you. The difference between that and, say, NEF and other proprietary raw formats is that the latter can’t be opened in ACR prior to being officially supported."

On the flip side, if they fixed the raw color, the b&w from raw that Ming like could be gone too. ;)

The P mode issue, I am not so sure as I don't use P mode at all. I do think that A mode with ND filter could be really handy.

Cheers,
 

serhan

All-Pro
May 7, 2011
NYC
That is what I thought also esp with my other m43 lenses + rx100. OMD with grip and the hump is not that small any more. GR/A will beat with their IQ, but af speed esp low light is better with m43/RX100. Cheaper option is epm2:
Olympus PEN E-PM2 Mirrorless Digital Camera with 14-42mm f/3.5 II Lens $380 At Rakuten - Micro Four Thirds User Forum
But I prefer the e-pl5 since the std grip can be changed with the bigger e-p3 grip...

Nex-6 with 16-50 is the smallest viewfinder camera. The lens is not the best on the edge but very small (combo size comparable to Panasonic LX's with a bigger lens diameter)... Also 20mm pancake is out, but its IQ looks better then 16-50, but I don't how it will compare with GR/A. If you add 35mm 1.8 that makes a very small system too, but still m43 af is the fastest:)

I was thinking the exact same thing! Or sort of. I'm thinking about just picking up a EPL5 and slapping the 14/2.5 on it as my "small' walk around camera. It would save me a couple of hundreds of dollars over the GR. And definitely a whole lot more over the A.

Alternatively, I've been tempted with the NEX6 recently ... weird temptation that just came out of nowhere!

Or maybe I'll just wait for the pre-order. Gulp!
 

Archiver

Top Veteran
Jul 11, 2010
Melbourne, Australia
It appears that the main gripes Ming has with the GR are the handling of reds, white balance, and AF speed in low light.

A poster in the comments said that using a raw developer other than Adobe Camera Raw showed the reds to be fine. On one hand, that is great; on the other, it's annoying for me as Lightroom is my primary raw developer and I have not found another that I like anywhere near as much.

The white balance ought to be correctable by Ricoh in a firmware update; let's hope that happens. Same with low light AF speed. Snap focus can replace AF for a fair number of situations if speed is necessary.

I'm still glad to have my preorder in. Last night I went out for a walk with the GRD III and was happy to have nothing but a tiny black camera effortlessly capturing the night. The GR will bring so much more image quality to the table.
 

Biro

Hall of Famer
Aug 7, 2011
Jersey Shore
Steve
Given Ricoh's track record of firmware updates, I have little doubt that most issues will be fixed - sooner or later. And I still basically like the GR. But I have cancelled by pre-order. It's not like the camera is on close-out now - I'll still be able to pick one up months down the road when more about the way the GR works and the results it gives becomes clear.

And, while prices for the GR series certainly haven't historically fallen like many other cameras, the pricetag isn't going to go anywhere but down. I remain interested in the GR and may still very well own one some day. But, as I said in an earlier post, I can still get good low-light results with my E-PM2 with the 14mm f/2.5, the 17mm f/1.8 and the 20mm f/1.7. I even have my LX7 which opens up to f/1.4.

I'm not saying anyone else should cancel their pre-order. But this works for me right now. There are some other things I need to spend money on right now.
 

Isoterica

Hall of Famer
Dec 6, 2011
It appears that the main gripes Ming has with the GR are the handling of reds, white balance, and AF speed in low light.

A poster in the comments said that using a raw developer other than Adobe Camera Raw showed the reds to be fine. On one hand, that is great; on the other, it's annoying for me as Lightroom is my primary raw developer and I have not found another that I like anywhere near as much.

The white balance ought to be correctable by Ricoh in a firmware update; let's hope that happens. Same with low light AF speed. Snap focus can replace AF for a fair number of situations if speed is necessary.

I'm still glad to have my preorder in. Last night I went out for a walk with the GRD III and was happy to have nothing but a tiny black camera effortlessly capturing the night. The GR will bring so much more image quality to the table.
So when they do updates to processing software like Photoshop or Lightroom to handle a new camera that's come out, do they only update the most recent version of software? I have Lightroom 3, got it just before 4 came out and now they have a beta 5. Would my software get an upgrade or not because it isn't the most recent.
 

Archiver

Top Veteran
Jul 11, 2010
Melbourne, Australia
You'll need to upgrade to a new version of Lightroom, I think. I don't believe that the older versions will handle a camera as recent as the A or the GR, certainly not the A. And what with Adobe making the highly controversial move to the Cloud model, it may get worse in the future. Adobe says that future versions of Lightroom will remain on a purchase rather than monthly subscription basis, but who knows what may happen in later years.

One way around this is to use Adobe DNG converter, which is a free download, to convert new camera files into something that older versions of Lightroom can use. Ray said the GR sample DNGs he processed were fine in the current Lightroom, but I cannot help but think that later versions will have significant tweaks to the file handling of newer cameras.
 

retow

All-Pro
Jul 24, 2010
I cancelled my pre-order for the GR and decided that the A ticks more of the right boxes for me, at least until more is known about the Ricoh.
 

trisberg

Veteran
Jul 5, 2011
New Hampshire
If everyone is cancelling their pre-orders, then maybe I'll be higher up the list and will receive the GR sooner :). From what I have read, including the discussion here, the color issue is most likely an ACR problem. That leaves the slow focusing in low-light and overexposure. I think I can deal with both and maybe Ricoh can fix one or both in a firmware update. Looking forward to getting my hands on this camera, should be an interesting one.

-Thomas
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
If everyone is cancelling their pre-orders, then maybe I'll be higher up the list and will receive the GR sooner :). From what I have read, including the discussion here, the color issue is most likely an ACR problem. That leaves the slow focusing in low-light and overexposure. I think I can deal with both and maybe Ricoh can fix one or both in a firmware update. Looking forward to getting my hands on this camera, should be an interesting one.
I'm coming to the same conclusions. A lot of the technically oriented folks over on DPR (and there ARE some smart tech folks over there, once you sort through the BS to find the relevant posts) have concluded the same, finding the colors to be fine using other raw processors and one guy has come up with a calibrated profile for it. I think Adobe just needs to add a camera profile for the GR to ACR and/or Lightroom (I don't really know how these interact but I'm assuming its all the same raw processor in different packages) and the colors should be fine. I'm not worried about the over-exposure if its consistent. It sounds like the Nikon metering matrix metering is better but once I get to know a camera I can generally learn to work with its metering as long as there's some consistency to it. Which leaves the slow low light AF. Auto focus is a non-issue for me in decent light with cameras like this - its a bit more of an issue in low light, but even there I should be able to work around it either using snap focus or manual focus if its bad enough. For moving subjects I tend not to use AF even in low light and its gotta be REALLY bad before it will bother me much for static shots.

Overall, its looking a lot better and the compelling reasons for spending more for the Nikon is getting to be a pretty small list. But I'll stay open and shoot them both and I'm sure I'll develop a preference in use...

-Ray
 

trisberg

Veteran
Jul 5, 2011
New Hampshire
It sounds like the Nikon metering matrix metering is better but once I get to know a camera I can generally learn to work with its metering as long as there's some consistency to it.
Yes, Nikon has had great matrix metering for a long time. Didn't they even invent it? Also, interesting to see the price of the Nikon A beeing lower than the GR on the Japanese yodobashi.com web site. Wonder if Nikon dropped the price?

-Thomas
 

Booka

Regular
Jul 5, 2011
Sweden
I'm not to worried about Ricoh vs Nikon RAW files, DNG files are a standard which Adobe helped start so there should really be minimal problems in Lightroom when the camera hits the market. (Ming has an interesting theory behind the tweaking of raw profiles for B&W vs color output, never heard of that before)
Besides I maybe only process 1/100 pictures I take so it's much more important for the camera to be responsive enough when that 1/100 moment happens, a few minutes extra time won't be significant as I completely destroy files back and forth for hours on end... I put my preorder in a few weeeks ago and am eagerly expecting it's arrival in a few weeks.
 

Biro

Hall of Famer
Aug 7, 2011
Jersey Shore
Steve
If everyone is cancelling their pre-orders, then maybe I'll be higher up the list and will receive the GR sooner :). From what I have read, including the discussion here, the color issue is most likely an ACR problem. That leaves the slow focusing in low-light and overexposure. I think I can deal with both and maybe Ricoh can fix one or both in a firmware update. Looking forward to getting my hands on this camera, should be an interesting one.

-Thomas
I think you're right. And the sooner guys like you and Ray get one, the sooner our questions will be answered. :biggrin: Seriously, I probably would have kept my pre-order if I didn't need to buy a new set of tires for my car this month. I remain interested in the GR and will likely still own one a few months down the road. Given Ricoh's track record with firmware updates, I'm sure GR owners will not be left on their own.
 

stonebat

Rookie
Nov 13, 2012
+1. I hope more people ahead of me cancel their preorder so that I can get mine faster. Yes it seems the RAW color issue has been overblown. Although DNG is an open format, it has a room for vendor specific extensions. Yes Adobe has to support Ricoh GR DNG officially to see full potential of GR. The film like B&W sounded so enticing. Now it's just waiting game.
 

Andrewteee

All-Pro
Jul 8, 2010
Certainly keeping my GR order as I'm the only who can adequately judge how a given camera (or lens) performs for my own work. The fact that the GR appears to have such good B&W output is very appealing.

I use Iridient Digital as my RAW developer and it has always provided great color for Ricoh DNG files. And let's not forget that half the camera is software nowadays, which is easily updatable.
 

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