Micro 4/3 The official I don't want the LX100 thread

[john10001]

Panasonic have seriously fallen behind competitors like Ricoh, Sony, Sigma even Nikon! with the LX-100.

They have forgotten the USP and why people bought the LX series in the first place. They've turned this into something I simply do not want to buy and that is a heffalump.

 

[Luckypenguin]

Panasonic still sells the LX7, don't they? The LX100 seems to be a product for a different market.

 

[drd1135]

I broke down ... and pre-ordered.

Although I've been 5 for 5 in canceling pre-orders so far!

You're due.

Seriously, just watching people's reaction to the LX100 and the GM5 is good news for Panasonic. They've been on a roll lately with the GH4, GM1, and now the two new ones. I'd say GX7 as well, but I wonder if the early discontinuation is a sign of disappointing sales.

 

[val]

I personally won't be getting one because I have a GX7 and flip out screens are a must. For my SO on the other hand I think I would get her one because it ticks all the boxes

not to say it's not a great camera.

do NOT be surprised if I ended getting this one as a second body for my GX7 though, that 24mm F1.7 would definitely come in handy in some scenarios and would be cheaper than getting a Olympus 12mm F2!

 

[Armanius]

You're due.

Seriously, just watching people's reaction to the LX100 and the GM5 is good news for Panasonic. They've been on a roll lately with the GH4, GM1, and now the two new ones. I'd say GX7 as well, but I wonder if the early discontinuation is a sign of disappointing sales.

Indeed! My last preorder was the XT1, preceded by the EM1.

 

[wolfie]

Just what was needed

Going up-sensor and leap-frogging the 1" sensor level is a definite plus for the LX100. Staying with 1/1.7 would have been a yawn (like the Fuji X30), and going 1" is just playing the RX100 game - now we basically have a faster zoom lens than the prime-limited Nikon A/ Ricoh GR.
And that is why it will sell - a prime compact has such limited appeal compared to a zoom. Toss in the fast wide angle capability, bigger sensor, fast DFD AF, 4K video (for those 8MP snapshots!) and a good EVF. I am surprised there is no tilty/swivel rear screen and the lack of touch -something the E-PL5 has made normal for my close up and people photography.

But it all depends on the lens - it has to deliver very good quality fully open or the fast speed is a waste of space. Otherwise you would be better off with a kit zoom on a GM5 body.

 

[olli]

If you want to sell something, and it costs $100 to set up the production line, and you make 10 of them, you only have to get back $10 each to cover your fixed costs. If you only make 2 of them, then you need $50 each to cover your fixed costs.

I am not at all saying I know the economics of this camera. I don't. Just paraphrasing the concept.

For DSLRs -- well, look at Canon's 7D mark ii. Lots of new stuff there! (not). It's the same, basic body design they'd have since the 10D.

I understand the economic principles but I also understand that price isn't directly related to cost except in a marginal way. Prices are set on the basis of what the market will bear. Short of getting access to the camera manufacturers financial numbers there's no way of knowing what the costs are, but personally I remain sceptical of the idea that the prices being set are determined primarily by R&D and production costs.

 

[john m flores]

I understand the economic principles but I also understand that price isn't directly related to cost except in a marginal way. Prices are set on the basis of what the market will bear. Short of getting access to the camera manufacturers financial numbers there's no way of knowing what the costs are, but personally I remain sceptical of the idea that the prices being set are determined primarily by R&D and production costs.

Welcome to the new "HOLY COW THE SMARTPHONE HAS EATEN ALL OF OUR POINT AND SHOOT PROFITS! WHAT NOW?" pricing.

 

[Ray Sachs]

I understand the economic principles but I also understand that price isn't directly related to cost except in a marginal way. Prices are set on the basis of what the market will bear. Short of getting access to the camera manufacturers financial numbers there's no way of knowing what the costs are, but personally I remain sceptical of the idea that the prices being set are determined primarily by R&D and production costs.

I agree with this almost completely. But how do you reconcile that with your earlier statement that it's just another ridiculously overpriced camera? If they're charging what the market will pay, it's priced exactly right, no? If it's priced too high and the market won't bear it, they'll lower the price until it sells. Sometimes you win and make money, sometimes you lose and lose money. Look at the LX100's predesessor - the LX7. Instead of leapfrogging the market leaders in technology, it got leapfrogged by Sony just before it was released. It was screwed. It was an initially $500 camera (consistent with most others in that category other than the RX100, which did the leapfrogging) that was selling for $250-300 within a couple of MONTHS of release and you could usually find one at those prices through it's product life (ie, until now). It was a terrific bargain at those prices, and I'm sure they sold quite a few and limited their losses, but it was all the market would bear but it wasn't what they were assuming they'd get for that camera and I'm sure they took a bath on that model. This time, if Olympus or Nikon doesn't come along with some major surprises, the LX100 will probably be the class leader in this market segment (the non-pocketable portion of it anyway) for the next year or two and will likely continue to be able to charge pretty high prices and still sell a lot of cameras. And probably make money on this one.

If you want a lower end DSLR instead, yeah, they're better bargains. The price you pay is the size and weight. But if you want a non-pocketable compact, this is, for now anyway, probably the best of the breed and you have to pay for that...

BTW, I expect to see the Fuji X30 going for pretty low prices in the current environment. Although they're already pricing it lower than the others out of the gate, recognizing the reality of the staying with the same 2/3" sensor. Even the price they're asking sounds high to me, but maybe they're counting on the loyalty of Fuji lovers???

I always thought that was how it was supposed to work???

-Ray

 

[serhan]

Or Leica does it profitably, why not us?

Welcome to the new "HOLY COW THE SMARTPHONE HAS EATEN ALL OF OUR POINT AND SHOOT PROFITS! WHAT NOW?" pricing.

 

[Armanius]

IMO, it's not overpriced relative to other similarly or comparably spec'd cameras.

 

[john m flores]

IMO, it's not overpriced relative to other similarly or comparably spec'd cameras.

And the beauty of Lumix cameras is that they'll be a bargain in 12 months!

 

[Armanius]

And the beauty of Lumix cameras is that they'll be a bargain in 12 months!

12 months? More like 6!

 

[demiro]

And the beauty of Lumix cameras is that they'll be a bargain in 12 months!

I think that has been true of the mid level and lower models, but the GHs have held their own, and the GX7 did as well, I think. I'll be surprised to see the LX100 do a nosedive, unless someone one ups it in the short term (which seems unlikely).

 

[Biro]

And the beauty of Lumix cameras is that they'll be a bargain in 12 months!

At half the price, I could forgive there being no integrated flash.

 

[wolfie]

Bye bye prime, hello zoom

BTW, I expect to see the Fuji X30 going for pretty low prices in the current environment. Although they're already pricing it lower than the others out of the gate, recognizing the reality of the staying with the same 2/3" sensor. Even the price they're asking sounds high to me, but maybe they're counting on the loyalty of Fuji lovers???

-Ray

Reckon the X30 is dead on arrival, as with the LX7. Interesting to see if Fuji probably still believe that their prime-lens APS compacts will hold up against the large sensor zoom compact category that is now emerging with the LX100 basically eclipsing the Canon offering. I never saw the mileage in the Ricoh GR, Nikon A, Fuji - especially when the lens were not very fast to compensate for the restriction of fixed focal length. And Sigma - they're in a world all of their own ...:tongue:

I predict the large sensor zooms will kill the prime format in fairly quick time. The LX100 could actually impact M43 ILC sales for those wanting a walkaround large sensor camera. Heck the moment I saw it I was already planning to sell off one body and lens and replace it an LX100 - faster and smaller.

 

[Luke]

I predict the large sensor zooms will kill the prime format in fairly quick time. The LX100 could actually impact M43 ILC sales for those wanting a walkaround large sensor camera. Heck the moment I saw it I was already planning to sell off one body and lens and replace it an LX100 - faster and smaller.

I can see your second prediction happening, but the first won't happen. The people who love large sensor fixed primes lens cameras LOVE them and will not universally embrace a smaller sensored camera with a permanently attached zoom lens. The smaller sensor is a compromise and the zoom (however well made) is also a compromise.

 

[Ray Sachs]

Reckon the X30 is dead on arrival, as with the LX7. Interesting to see if Fuji probably still believe that their prime-lens APS compacts will hold up against the large sensor zoom compact category that is now emerging with the LX100 basically eclipsing the Canon offering. I never saw the mileage in the Ricoh GR, Nikon A, Fuji - especially when the lens were not very fast to compensate for the restriction of fixed focal length. And Sigma - they're in a world all of their own ...:tongue:

I predict the large sensor zooms will kill the prime format in fairly quick time. The LX100 could actually impact M43 ILC sales for those wanting a walkaround large sensor camera. Heck the moment I saw it I was already planning to sell off one body and lens and replace it an LX100 - faster and smaller.

I don't think the fixed lens primes are going anywhere. Those who love them (and I count myself very firmly among 'em), REALLY love 'em. I have a Nikon Coolpix A and a Sony RX1 and they're my two favorite cameras. I love what the Df is capable of but that's to handle the focal lengths the other two won't. There's something about a single purpose little camera that does one thing very VERY well that's hard to be for those of us who like that sort of thing. I personally don't much like zoom lenses - there are certain types of shooting that they're kind of necessary for and I sometimes use them in those situations, but I don't like them. And I take every opportunity to shoot with primes.

If I DO end up getting one of these zoomie compacts, it'll only be to have a small versatile system along with my large versatile system (DSLR). And regardless, I'll still pick up the RX1 and/or the Nikon A far more often than either...

-Ray

 

[Armanius]

I don't think the fixed lens primes are going anywhere. Those who love them (and I count myself very firmly among 'em), REALLY love 'em. I have a Nikon Coolpix A and a Sony RX1 and they're my two favorite cameras. I love what the Df is capable of but that's to handle the focal lengths the other two won't. There's something about a single purpose little camera that does one thing very VERY well that's hard to be for those of us who like that sort of thing. I personally don't much like zoom lenses - there are certain types of shooting that they're kind of necessary for and I sometimes use them in those situations, but I don't like them. And I take every opportunity to shoot with primes.

If I DO end up getting one of these zoomie compacts, it'll only be to have a small versatile system along with my large versatile system (DSLR). And regardless, I'll still pick up the RX1 and/or the Nikon A far more often than either...

-Ray

Bring on the RX1ii with pop EVF!

 

[olli]

I agree with this almost completely. But how do you reconcile that with your earlier statement that it's just another ridiculously overpriced camera? -Ray

It's right there in the second part of the last sentence. They are ridiculously overpriced because I suspect that the price bears no relation to the cost.