LTM The wormhole that is LTM and derivates thereof...

Leica Thread Mount (LTM) [aka: M39]

JensM

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Posting it here, based on the Leica mount, even though it seems to be the first tread with the "LMT" tag in this forum.

So, since I just got a Leica IIIc (1941 model) with a Summar 50/f:2 mounted, I have spent some hours trying to understand the lens universe that is LTM.

Having surfed the web on earlier occasions for a substitute for the camera I now was gifted, I had come to the understanding that the world was my oyster and one could wallow in all sorts of old screw mount lenses, as long as they were '39s and not M42, but how wrong was that.

Rather, as it turns out.

Not sure how much I will be using the Barnack*, but in due time, I fancy getting a wide, possibly 2 (28ish and 35) and a longer lens or two (90ish and 135/200) for it over time, but reseaching such turned out to be a slippery slope, with varieties of tread pitches, coupled and uncoupled lenses and some that is available in all variants, if I understands it correctly.

So for the hive-mind to consider, what would a tally of economical viable lenses for a Leica IIIC, working with the rangefinder iow "coupled, consist of, preferably also with suggestions for viewfinder variants so that I actually see whats framed?

Not leery towards other suggestions to make the most of the old geezer and its lenses with the experience of horsing around with it, pleasurable either. I have thought that I could substitute a light measure with a small M43 body and a appropriate lens covering the FoV of whatevers on the Leica, using either spot metering or just take an average and for the first time pondering running somewhat pondering the possibility of running old lenses on digital bodies.

I cant really see myself going out with just the IIIC.

Will be digging through the garage for some of the darkroom gear, developer tanks primarily, and will order a Changing bag, so that I can do in-house development, but I dont really see me digging out the enlarger and such, but who knows down the line.

Any advice for running a Barnack** system would be highly appreciated. :drinks:


* and ** Ha, latching onto the tribal language!
 
The 90mm f/4 Elmar and the 135mm f/4.5 Hektor in LTM are pretty underappreciated and can be had for under a $100.
You can even find pre-war/wartime ones (serial numbers below 600K) with coating as this was a post-war service offered by Leitz.
Only the really early ones don't have RF-coupling.

Vintage wide-angles are going to be more expensive, like the 28mm f/6.3 Hektor and 35mm f/3.5 Elmars

And then there's the exotic stuff like the 105mm Mountain Elmar, the 50mm f/1.5 Xenon, The Thambar, 73mm f/1.9 Hektor....which you should probably ignore, unless you have deep pockets :p

For the 127mm, 200mm and longer you'd also need a PLOOT or VISOFLEX Reflex housing


Soviet glass will be cheaper but will have focusing issues, if you are going down this route it's better to stick to Jupiter and Industar lenses.
Japanese glass shouldn't give you any issues.


Viewfinders, historically the VIDOM and VIOOH would be the most common variable focus ones.
But these are not zooming viewfinders, they just block off more of the view as you adjust to longer focal length.
With the added bonus of the VIDOM having a reverse left-right view.

The more modern brightline-finders are what everyone seems to prefer though.
 
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Posting it here, based on the Leica mount, even though it seems to be the first tread with the "LMT" tag in this forum.

So, since I just got a Leica IIIc (1941 model) with a Summar 50/f:2 mounted, I have spent some hours trying to understand the lens universe that is LTM.

Having surfed the web on earlier occasions for a substitute for the camera I now was gifted, I had come to the understanding that the world was my oyster and one could wallow in all sorts of old screw mount lenses, as long as they were '39s and not M42, but how wrong was that.

Rather, as it turns out.

Not sure how much I will be using the Barnack*, but in due time, I fancy getting a wide, possibly 2 (28ish and 35) and a longer lens or two (90ish and 135/200) for it over time, but reseaching such turned out to be a slippery slope, with varieties of tread pitches, coupled and uncoupled lenses and some that is available in all variants, if I understands it correctly.

So for the hive-mind to consider, what would a tally of economical viable lenses for a Leica IIIC, working with the rangefinder iow "coupled, consist of, preferably also with suggestions for viewfinder variants so that I actually see whats framed?

Not leery towards other suggestions to make the most of the old geezer and its lenses with the experience of horsing around with it, pleasurable either. I have thought that I could substitute a light measure with a small M43 body and a appropriate lens covering the FoV of whatevers on the Leica, using either spot metering or just take an average and for the first time pondering running somewhat pondering the possibility of running old lenses on digital bodies.

I cant really see myself going out with just the IIIC.

Will be digging through the garage for some of the darkroom gear, developer tanks primarily, and will order a Changing bag, so that I can do in-house development, but I dont really see me digging out the enlarger and such, but who knows down the line.

Any advice for running a Barnack** system would be highly appreciated. :drinks:


* and ** Ha, latching onto the tribal language!
Hey - go easy. It’s a hell of a rabbit hole you’re getting into. A delightful one but still a rabbit hole nevertheless.
 
For an 'off the wall' alternative to the better known brands of long lenses, you might keep your eyes open for a Wollensak Velostigmat 127mm lens.
I didn't know mine was even an LTM lens until I really tried hard to get the LTM to M adapter off it.
Wollensak Ser. II Velostigmat 127mm f4.5.JPG
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Wollensak Ser. II Velostigmat 127mm.JPG
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And for shorter, 50mm work I can vouch for the Nikkor 50 1.4 LTM.
It's a keeper for sure.
Nikkor 5cm 1.4 LTM.JPG
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Hey - go easy. It’s a hell of a rabbit hole you’re getting into. A delightful one but still a rabbit hole nevertheless.
I have an understanding of it.

My redemption in this, is probably that I have been around film for three decades or so and darkrooms for about two, and at this time (and age) prefer the instant gratification of digital and the "no cost" outside of the intial outlay. (Rationalising and excuses galore...)

That said, I have also sourced my maternal grandfathers Yasichamat 124G, so I will pick that up from an old aunt sometime this summer. I already have most of his Topcon system that predates me with two years, but with the 135mm is sadly missing in action. The only film I have shot since 2005 was one roll through a Yasicha T5 before I sold it and I found the experience somewhat under par at this day and age, the roll was sent off for processing though.

Other than a couple of choice Pentax (Spotmatic and ME Super) models, I dont feel an itch to buy any more film cameras than I already have and the ones I have is mostly in need of a bit of CLA due to detoriated light seals and such stuff.
 
For an 'off the wall' alternative to the better known brands of long lenses, you might keep your eyes open for a Wollensak Velostigmat 127mm lens.
I didn't know mine was even an LTM lens until I really tried hard to get the LTM to M adapter off it.
View attachment 475121
View attachment 475122
And for shorter, 50mm work I can vouch for the Nikkor 50 1.4 LTM.
It's a keeper for sure.
View attachment 475123
The camera came with a collapsible Summar 50mm f:2 produced in 1935, so I am thinking of sticking with that.

I am a bit intrigued by the Japanese side of LTM lenses, though. The Wollensak brand I hadnt even heard of before, so it may need looking into. :)
 
I inherited my Grandpa's Barnack, 1935 IIIa that had been 'hot rodded' with a flash port, but like you I have no desire to run film thru it or even buy film. I have some that I was given but I don't plan on using it.
DSC07370 (2).JPG
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Elmar 3.5cm.JPG
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It came with this lens on it.
I've had the most fun adapting all these old lenses to my Sony cameras.
I find they slow me down and force me to think about the photo, but I still like to fire away with an auto focus lens too.
 
I inherited my Grandpa's Barnack, 1935 IIIa that had been 'hot rodded' with a flash port, but like you I have no desire to run film thru it or even buy film. I have some that I was given but I don't plan on using it.View attachment 475125
I have plans for shooting it some, but probably no more than a roll every now and then, for some sort of project work or "side shooting" when out and about.
 
I've run a roll or two thru my M3 but not the IIIa. The speeds just don't sound right so why bother. Good luck finding a lens to your liking. I enjoy the Nikkor the most, second is a Canon 35mm LTM that really puts out a nice '50's look image.
 
The camera came with a collapsible Summar 50mm f:2 produced in 1935, so I am thinking of sticking with that.

The SUMMAR is a soft/warm to neutral lens. colors are rendered a little muted. Also how it renders (or not renders) shadow detail that can give images a 3D-look.
At wide apertures, you'll get the crazy Summar swirly bokeh, contrast will be down, and some vignetting. But it sharpens up nicely at f/4 as I recall. Using a hood is highly recommended.

Remember that the crown glass is pretty soft and scratches easily.

I am a bit intrigued by the Japanese side of LTM lenses, though. The Wollensak brand I hadnt even heard of before, so it may need looking into. :)

During World War 2 Leitz N.Y. did not have access to their German suppliers for lenses (or cameras). So, they engaged with Wollensak to create the 127mm tele.
Leitz N.Y. was also asked by the US Government to produce Leica cameras locally, but this proved impossible for them. (Hence Peter Kardon and the Premier Instrument Corporation getting in on it)

The Leitz N.Y. also had a local version of the VIOOH viewfinder, called the IMARECT
 
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So scurried forth to the closest "picture-shop", which used to be a proper brick and mortar.

I have earlier bought a few rolls of B/W film there and a couple of cartridges for the SX70, so I had plans to pick up a roll or two of Ilford HP5.

No luck, there was just some Kodak colour films to be had, ended up with a roll of 24 frames Ultramax 400 and have shot a couple of frames off the sunny 16 rule, metering with the EM-10 afterwards, I`ve been somewhere in the ballpark as to shutterspeed/apperture.

Plan is to shoot the rest of in a couple of days, submit it for development and see how that fares as to whether the camera is functionally sound or not. If it is not, I think it will most likely be shelved for the time being, along with the other oldies and then without any further stuff added other than a fitting lens cap, with it being winded up and fired a few times a year as the rest of the film stuff is.

If it is in sound working order, the plan is to pick up some B/W film with appropriate chemistry for more shooting and home development, and I think I will go forward looking for a 90 f:4 and a 35 or 28 of sorts.

Not sure if those are going to be Leicas or if I should "sample" other brands. Both the Canons and the Voigtlander Colour Skopars seems to be very decent choices and reasonable priced for the wide end with the Leica having the point with the 90s, but just going for Leica A36 compatible stuff could also be a viable option, getting one set of R/G/Y filters to maximise the B/W shooting as would picking up FOV corrected viewfinders, which I presume is a must have for the Tele end of things.

The OVs can possibly also do stand in work on the smaller M43 bodies without LVFs when running the appropriate primes (14/15/25 and 42.5) .
 
It's been a long time ago but last time I had a roll developed, then scanned to a disc it was @$18 or so. Too pricey for me to do it much since, so I do digital even though I've got some nice film cameras.
 
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