Sony TheCameraStoreTV: RX100 III and Canon G7X...terrible Canonitis disease

TCSJordan

Regular
Oct 22, 2011
Hey everyone,

I'm the guy with the G7X in the episode being discussed (the one who doesn't look comfortable on camera). Since the video was posted there have been a lot comments about us being overly harsh on the Canon. While we shoot for The Camera Store, all the opinions presented are those of Chris or myself.

It's true, I have been frustrated by Canon's recent products. I was a Canon shooter from back on a film EOS 3, and the 5D Mark II sparked the DSLR video revolution which re-ignited my passion for filmmaking. For the last 5 years, however, Canon's products have all felt artificially held back for marketing rather than practical reasons (something Magic Lantern really helped bring to light). Due to running a web-TV show, I'm always looking for exciting innovations in the photography and video world and it's been a while since we've seen one from Canon.

That being said...

I was actually quite excited for the G7X, which is why I volunteered to use the camera for the shoot. The lens range is very nice, and the video features looked to be closer to modern standards than anything we've seen on a Powershot for a while. But then, when I was actually using the camera to shoot during the review, the slow autofocus and handling issues became very apparent. We noticed the slow AF and DPReview has commented on it as well. I use manual focus for ISO and resolution tests, so the clicky wheel you need to endlessly rotate really did annoy me in those circumstances. The G7X video also looked soft as soon as there was movement throughout the frame.

Unfortunately, the nature of our reviews mean that we could always be accused of bias or prejudice when testing cameras, because outside of image quality and core specs, a lot of what makes a camera enjoyable to use is entirely subjective. Chris and I will always be upfront about our thoughts on handling, user interface, and the usefulness of various features. So, while I may be disappointed with Canon's current market strategy (the C100 MK II announcement today was another disappointment), I'm always hoping they'll bring out another killer camera. I've held onto my Canon glass with that hope (and because it fits on the Sony FS700).

Thanks for watching the video, and I'm glad it's sparked some debate!
 

adoy

New Member
Oct 21, 2014
I just read a long diatribe about the horrible exposure comp dial that you can't turn with one hand, while mine is just fine - stiff enough not to turn accidentally but easy to turn with one thumb. Although it does turn the wrong way, at least the way I'm not used to from any other camera...

-Ray
I think its like comparing by default - everything spins the wrong way on the Nikon if you are used to a Canon i.e - the zoom ring . the focus, shutter speed dial, aperture etc etc
e.g. Nikon by convention (+....0.....-) on its readout

Actually Canon is sticking to its traditional brand convention or standardization . By feel just think about spinning the EV compensation dial clockwise is +ve and anticlockwise its -ve.

If you compare G7x to the G12, G15/16 only difference is Canon swapped the dial from LHS to the RHS top plate and more importantly also swapped the horizontal index marker from the RHS to the LHS . Hence it looks as if the + or - values have been reversed - I think that's part of the confusion lies.

Essentially if you rely purely on tactile feedback it has NOT changed ( as far as Canon cams are concerned) or if you like to call it turn left for + and right for -
( agreed the total opposite of Nikon)
 

hannahntilly

Regular
Apr 13, 2012
Surrey, UK
Peter
Well I, for one, find your videos useful. As we all know, voicing an opinion is always an invitation to be sneered at but that's the nature of debate. Presentation style is a personal thing - I find Kai's style often amusing but not always informative. Well done and keep up the good work.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
I guess the exposure comp dial is all about what you're used to - there's no right direction or wrong. With the Fuji and Sony and Nikon cameras I've shot with, the positive number are all forward of neutral and the negatives all behind neutral. So I guess my brain got wired that way. This is the first camera I've used that works in the opposite direction and I have to look at either the dial or the results on the screen to know if I'm turning it the way I mean to. I'm sure I'll get used to it except that my RX1 and Df (where the damn thing is on the left side, which I still don't get) both work the other way and both of those are probably gonna get a lot more use than the G7X, so maybe I won't...

But, yeah, Nikon is different in any number of ways. I first shot with a Nikon DSLR in January and have been shooting with them non-stop since about June and they're the only lenses I have to change anymore, and I'm STILL not fully used to the opposite way the lenses screw on and off. Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic, Sony - everything other ILC I've used mounts in the old "righty tighty, lefty loosey" way if you're looking at the camera from the front. Nikon goes the opposite direction of any other camera or any screw or nut and bolt I've ever used...

-Ray
 

Djarum

All-Pro
Jul 10, 2010
Huntsville, AL
Jason
So I just looked at it on a picture on another website. As an engineer and math guy, this would drive me bonkers. Linear coordinate system by definition has negative numbers left of zero and positive numbers right of zero. This would drive my OCD crazy.
 

rw11

Regular
Aug 7, 2014
Could the slow autofocus be caused by the type of target combined with the type of AF used? IIRC, the RX100M3 uses a mixed AF detect.

And handling issues are worse on a Canon than on the Sony? That's a surprise to me, I finally abandoned my much-loved Canon S-90 for the RX100M3 and while I love the improved IQ, the handling seems worse to me.
 

Ray Sachs

Legend
Sep 21, 2010
Not too far from Philly
you should be able to figure it out...
Could the slow autofocus be caused by the type of target combined with the type of AF used? IIRC, the RX100M3 uses a mixed AF detect.

And handling issues are worse on a Canon than on the Sony? That's a surprise to me, I finally abandoned my much-loved Canon S-90 for the RX100M3 and while I love the improved IQ, the handling seems worse to me.
There are a few threads on this camera / these cameras going right now and, while it may not have come through in this thread, I think it's pretty clear that most of those who have used both reject the whole "slow AF" contention put forth by these guys and DPR. Other reviewers have found just the opposite and most who have used both find them close enough to the same not to give any further thought to it. As for handling, that's purely a matter of personal preference. I too hated the handling on the RX100 after having had an S90 that I liked and an LX5 / LX7 which I loved. I personally find the handling overwhelmingly better on the G7X than the RX100, these guys comments aside. Again, each of us will see this our own way, but poor handling was/is a common complaint with the RX100 line and I suspect if you're one who falls into that camp you'll probably find the G7X a pretty big improvement. Of course, there are those who love the handling of the RX100 and while I may be from a different planet than they are, I can't say they're wrong. I can just give my impression which is directly opposite of the Camera Store guys...

-Ray
 

Peytonphoto

Regular
Oct 4, 2014
You and Chris did an excellent job. As always, very informative.

It's kind of funny how some will bash the review simply cause it goes against their own opinion. Definitely says more about the individual than the reviewers of Camera Store.

Keep up the great work!


Hey everyone,

I'm the guy with the G7X in the episode being discussed (the one who doesn't look comfortable on camera). Since the video was posted there have been a lot comments about us being overly harsh on the Canon. While we shoot for The Camera Store, all the opinions presented are those of Chris or myself.

It's true, I have been frustrated by Canon's recent products. I was a Canon shooter from back on a film EOS 3, and the 5D Mark II sparked the DSLR video revolution which re-ignited my passion for filmmaking. For the last 5 years, however, Canon's products have all felt artificially held back for marketing rather than practical reasons (something Magic Lantern really helped bring to light). Due to running a web-TV show, I'm always looking for exciting innovations in the photography and video world and it's been a while since we've seen one from Canon.

That being said...

I was actually quite excited for the G7X, which is why I volunteered to use the camera for the shoot. The lens range is very nice, and the video features looked to be closer to modern standards than anything we've seen on a Powershot for a while. But then, when I was actually using the camera to shoot during the review, the slow autofocus and handling issues became very apparent. We noticed the slow AF and DPReview has commented on it as well. I use manual focus for ISO and resolution tests, so the clicky wheel you need to endlessly rotate really did annoy me in those circumstances. The G7X video also looked soft as soon as there was movement throughout the frame.

Unfortunately, the nature of our reviews mean that we could always be accused of bias or prejudice when testing cameras, because outside of image quality and core specs, a lot of what makes a camera enjoyable to use is entirely subjective. Chris and I will always be upfront about our thoughts on handling, user interface, and the usefulness of various features. So, while I may be disappointed with Canon's current market strategy (the C100 MK II announcement today was another disappointment), I'm always hoping they'll bring out another killer camera. I've held onto my Canon glass with that hope (and because it fits on the Sony FS700).

Thanks for watching the video, and I'm glad it's sparked some debate!
 

Peytonphoto

Regular
Oct 4, 2014
BTW, your findings look to be consistent with others: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-powershot-g7-x/12



Hey everyone,

I'm the guy with the G7X in the episode being discussed (the one who doesn't look comfortable on camera). Since the video was posted there have been a lot comments about us being overly harsh on the Canon. While we shoot for The Camera Store, all the opinions presented are those of Chris or myself.

It's true, I have been frustrated by Canon's recent products. I was a Canon shooter from back on a film EOS 3, and the 5D Mark II sparked the DSLR video revolution which re-ignited my passion for filmmaking. For the last 5 years, however, Canon's products have all felt artificially held back for marketing rather than practical reasons (something Magic Lantern really helped bring to light). Due to running a web-TV show, I'm always looking for exciting innovations in the photography and video world and it's been a while since we've seen one from Canon.

That being said...

I was actually quite excited for the G7X, which is why I volunteered to use the camera for the shoot. The lens range is very nice, and the video features looked to be closer to modern standards than anything we've seen on a Powershot for a while. But then, when I was actually using the camera to shoot during the review, the slow autofocus and handling issues became very apparent. We noticed the slow AF and DPReview has commented on it as well. I use manual focus for ISO and resolution tests, so the clicky wheel you need to endlessly rotate really did annoy me in those circumstances. The G7X video also looked soft as soon as there was movement throughout the frame.

Unfortunately, the nature of our reviews mean that we could always be accused of bias or prejudice when testing cameras, because outside of image quality and core specs, a lot of what makes a camera enjoyable to use is entirely subjective. Chris and I will always be upfront about our thoughts on handling, user interface, and the usefulness of various features. So, while I may be disappointed with Canon's current market strategy (the C100 MK II announcement today was another disappointment), I'm always hoping they'll bring out another killer camera. I've held onto my Canon glass with that hope (and because it fits on the Sony FS700).

Thanks for watching the video, and I'm glad it's sparked some debate!
 

KillRamsey

Hall of Famer
Jun 20, 2012
Hood River, OR
Kyle
There are places on the internet where everyone decides to declare winners and losers among cameras - each must be ranked and filed among its peers in a single, objective way, because (presumably) a camera higher on such a list must be able to create better art. A camera with some kind of flaw (real, perceived, or only by comparison to slightly better alternatives) cannot be tolerated or used, and must be banished to the wastelands.

This is not one of those places.

Here, if you can create good art with it, it doesn't matter if it's a pinhole camera or an LX100. The equipment, while infinitely interesting to understand, is secondary at best to the results people can produce with it. And in order to create an atmosphere where people can feel encouraged to post their attempts, to show their progress, and to be free from fear of overly harsh criticism, we keep it pretty nice. About everything. The relationships come first here, and being "right" comes ... almost never. Punishing the G7X (and anyone who might stick up for it) won't improve your photography any, so ... why bother?
 

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