Thinking about new system: NEX or Micro Four Thirds? The now and the future?

B

blb

Guest
I can appreciate the simplicity of, and learning that can come from shooting one prime at a time, sort of the joy that comes from limits that poets talk about, and for those reasons, am anxious to play around with primes. I can also appreciate, but didn't previously understand, that zooms are not equally sharp across focal lengths (and I'm going to use that to excuse some of my many missed shots from my kids' athletic events!). That seems to be a difference that would really make a difference. So, thank you.
 

wt21

Hall of Famer
I can appreciate the simplicity of, and learning that can come from shooting one prime at a time, sort of the joy that comes from limits that poets talk about, and for those reasons, am anxious to play around with primes. I can also appreciate, but didn't previously understand, that zooms are not equally sharp across focal lengths (and I'm going to use that to excuse some of my many missed shots from my kids' athletic events!). That seems to be a difference that would really make a difference. So, thank you.

LOL! I'm all for blaming my equipment for missed shots :) but the difference in sharpness is not quite THAT noticeable! It does bring up another point -- sometimes a kit lens can be slower to focus than a good, fast focusing prime lens. Depends on the lens and the system, but it is indeed quite possible, though not always the case.
 

Biro

Hall of Famer
Location
Jersey Shore
Real Name
Steve
Sometimes this all reminds me of my father who as something of an audiophile, kept working on his system, exchanging this piece for that, configuring his speakers one way or another, tweaking this setting or that, until he got as close as he could to the settings the test instruments and albums told him he should. He spent much money and a lot of time on his system - but he rarely if ever just listened to music.

blb
nex 5n, canon t2i

Bib... The analogy you draw is apt. And, without getting too heavy or philosphical, a couple of old sayings apply to the world of audiophiles, photographers, lovers or anyone involved in a passionate pursuit: 1) The thrill is in the hunt. 2) Wanting can be much more satisying than having.
 

retow

All-Pro
I'm definitely going to show my ignorance here, and probably my stupidity, but for the rest of us newbies, would someone please explain the oft repeated notion that we ought focus on the lenses and not the body/sensor, etc.

I know the difference between a slow and a fast lens - but isn't it true that a sensor's ISO capability also comes into play?

I also understand that good glass is sharper than poor glass, but again, aren't there still trade-offs?

And why is it that anyone who plans to shoot, at least initially, with a kit lens it looked down upon and directed to look at non-ilc's?

And, finally, I don't see how some of you can, on one day, argue that we all ought to be shooting with a fast prime (the 50mm always being the first suggestion, even though that means different things on different sensors) learning, as the saying goes, to work with what you have and to "zoom with your feet," and then argue the next day that you wouldn't buy a particular body because of the inadequacy of the available lenses. It doesn't seem that it can go both ways.

Anyway... I'm probably not making many friends with this one, but, especially in a forum that is supposedly about thinking differently, it is frustrating to run into so much fundamentalist purist-ism.

Fast lenses provide the flexibility of shallow dof which allows to single out your subject while at the same time reducing the effect of distracting background clutter. This is as great a use for fast lenses these days as low light shooting. The latter can be addressed partly with high iso capable sensors. In the end, many are dreaming of a high quality, fast, affordable, useful range, compact zooms, which the laws of physics seem to prevent us from having until today. I think the zooms which came closest to this definition where Olympus FT's 12-60mm and 14-54mm MK II. Unfortunately, for mft they have not tried to build equivalents.
Just two comments to yours: If you want to experience fundamentalist purist-ism, you won't find it on this forum and neither have I encountered situations in which somebody was looked down upon because of gear chosen.
 

pictor

All-Pro
Just two comments to yours: If you want to experience fundamentalist purist-ism, you won't find it on this forum and neither have I encountered situations in which somebody was looked down upon because of gear chosen.

The missing fundamentalism is one of the reasons why I am here and why I like to be here.
 

pdh

Legend
Gonçalo, I think you should go into a couple of shops, pick up and handle both cameras; then buy the one you don't want to put down ...
 

Julien

Top Veteran
Location
Paris, France
Real Name
Julien
The reasons I prefer primes for my use are:

- I often shoot moving subjects in less than ideal light, and my skills are simply not good enough to get a high rate of keepers with a "slow" zoom lens.
- Zooms don't give me enough subject isolation in some situations.
- With a prime that I use constantly, I know how the lens field of view relate to my own eyes' FOV, and in a hurry I can shoot without looking at the viewfinder/screen and still get a decent framing (like that). I'm not capable of doing that with a zoom.

That being said, for the mid-long telephoto range none of these three points generally apply, so I much prefer a zoom lens. And I actually find that kit lenses are often underrated; when you shoot them at f/8-11 for landscapes for instance I'm pretty sure I can't tell the difference from pro zooms or top primes.
 

Michael

Rookie
I am in a similar place at the present I got very tired of hauling 3 - 4 L lenses and a 5D in 45degree heat on a couple of jobs in January (this is Australia) So I sold my 5D and one of the less used lenses last week. So now I use an EP2 for the macro work and an M9 for everything else. To me at the present that 7N looks like a wonderfull upgrade (sorely needed) for the EP2. Now I learn that Metabones has an almost fully functioning adaptor for EF glass everything but IS and AF. That makes the 7N even more attractive especially after Michael Reichmanns review on Luminous landscape where the 7N compares wonderfully as a companion to the M9... BUT the OMD and Xpro1 have similar super qualities, stuck for choice is a common state these days it seems.LOL
 

bartjeej

Hall of Famer
Real Name
bart
Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, for me (jacket-)pocketability is a very important issue. Primes are usually smaller than zooms of the quality and including the same focal length, so for me it's natural to consider primes. Also kit lenses don't go as wide as I want to go, so that pretty much rules them out for me.

That being said, anyone looking down on someone for using a kit lens is an obnoxious fool - thankfully they're spread rather thin, or are even absent, here at SC :)
 

gdourado

Regular
Hello,

Thank you all for your participation!
I think I have somewhat narrowed down my choices...
As much as the Nex-7 seems like a great camera, the lack of lenses is weighing down my choice.
I would rahter have a system with lenses I like and are usefull.
So, I think i'm narrowed to:
- Panasonic GX1
- Samsung NX200

To get things out of the way, if the GX1 had an APS-C sensor, my choice would be made.
I like the way micro four thirds is established as a system and how it has grown.

I really like the Samsung camera and system, but a few things make me nervous...
One thing is the known issues with the RAW sizes and speed of the camera.

The other is the fact that Samsung is such a small player on the market...
The major online stores I usually buy stuff from, don't sell Samsung NX cameras or lenses.
There are not many people shooting with them either...
Flyckr has a small user base of NX200 shooters...
This makes me think if Samsung might go out of the ILC market soon and don't develop new cameras or lenses for the future...
It just if somenone buys a Nikon body or Canon, they can invest in the system, either EOS or F-mount and rest kind of assured that new cameras and lenses will be released and that technology will evolve and new bodies will be released with better sensors and features...

What if I'm to start a system based on NX and in 2012 Samsung decides to pull out of the market?
The resale value of the gear will take a hit, and there won't be no new gear, meaning I would have to jump ship to keep up with technology...

In this respect, I think micro four thirds is more mature, and has more support, more users, more market, it just moves more money, making it interesting for Panasonic and Olympus to develop new bodies and lenses...

The Whole IQ, noise, DOF of Micro four thirds vs the APS-C of the Samsung is putting alot of doubts in my mind...

Would the output of the Samsung be significantly better?

Cheers ans thanks for keeping up with me! :)
 

krugorg

All-Pro
Location
Minnesota USA
Real Name
Kyle Krug
I've been here before... think you have reached the "paralysis by analysis" zone. :biggrin:

Seriously, I think you need to just pick whichever of the cameras you like best in hand (think you already had the opportunity to play with the NX). You cannot make a wrong choice here. There is no perfect camera or system. All of the cameras you mentioned take fantastic photos.
 

Armanius

Bring Jack back!
Location
Houston, Texas
Real Name
Jack
Yes, we can drive ourselves crazy when we analyze and re-analyize the gear buying decisions. So I say again, gotta go with your heart!

That being said, let's assume you buy the Samsung and build up a collection of 3-4 nice Samsung lenses. You are having a blast with your new cam and lenses. Samsung then decides to pull out of the camera business. Guess what you are left with ... the same camera that you are having a blast with! Yeah, it bites that Samsung may not produce additional new lenses, but you still have a worthy camera with a set of worthy lenses! :) Obviously, if something breaks, then you might be in trouble when it comes to having replacement parts.

I haven't seen Pavel (aka Stratokaster) around for a while. If I remember correctly, he has/had the Samsung. Maybe he could chime-in.
 

Luckypenguin

Hall of Famer
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Real Name
Nic
The Whole IQ, noise, DOF of Micro four thirds vs the APS-C of the Samsung is putting alot of doubts in my mind...

As an example, the Panasonic 25/1.4 is capable of shallower depth-of-field @ f/1.8 then the Samsumg 30/2 is wide-open. That's how little difference there is in equivalent depth-of-field.

Would the output of the Samsung be significantly better?

I was hoping that you'd buy both and then tell us the answer.
 

gdourado

Regular
So... Yesterday I had a decisive moment...
Went to a local store for a little walk with my wife and came out with a new camera...
The store had an Olympus E-PL2 with the 14-42 II for 200 Euros.
I liked the feel of the camera and since the store has a 15 day no questions asked return policy, I pulled the trigger and bought the camera.
I havent had much time yet...
Just installed olympus update and updated the firmware.
Went though the menus and had a look and some configurations.
The camera feels good in hand and I like the size.
I will test it out in daylight during the weekend to see if I keep it.
It is not what I had in mind, but I thought the price was really sweet for what I was getting.
If I like the camera, I will then see some lenses for it. Maybe at first the 20mm 1.7 and 45mm 1.8.

Thank you all for your input!
Let's see where this purchase goes. :)

Cheers!
 

krugorg

All-Pro
Location
Minnesota USA
Real Name
Kyle Krug
Congrats on the new kit! That sounds like a great deal. :2thumbs:

Love the 20/1.7 and 45/1.8. Also, the 14/2.5 is a nice lens that is super tiny... a bit of an overachiever, I think. Heads up - they are having some availability issues on the 20/1.7 right now, at least in north america. I was looking for a friend this week and tough to find any in stock at reputable retailers.
 

wt21

Hall of Famer
That's a very good price, and the EPL2 isn't a bad camera at all. The newer Olys have MUCH faster AF, and the OMD seems to have a better sensor, but at low ISO and with relatively static subjects, the EPL2 will do just fine, and that is a very nice price.
 

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