Ticked at Apple

Burkey

All-Pro
Apr 18, 2011
124
Northern New England
An interesting thread. We're running a 5 1/2 year old iMac with 4 gigs of RAM with Yosemite as the OS. It's OK with an occasional "gag" or spinning beach ball when using LR. The "game" in house is that we won't replace it until it simply no longer boots and/or runs.
I'm still a big Apple supporter primarily because of the computers and the LR/PS environment on them. If I didn't need those for post processing we'd probably have a Chrome box setup. As for da' phone I have an S5 "Active". (Wife and son are iPhone fans.) The ability to port my images via a card reader and an OTG cable for backup when we travel is really great.
We all still use various versions of iPads. Gotta' wonder how Mr. Jobs might have viewed some of Apple's latest moves.
. . . David
 

Biro

Super Moderator
Aug 7, 2011
124
Jersey Shore
Steve
And just to be clear and repeat the point I made in my OP, I have no problem with an OS or iOS outgrowing the hardware. The hardware can't last forever. But I feel Apple clearly should have not offered iOS 8 for the iPad 2 and iPhone 4s, which have trouble handling it. I also think that if Apple isn't going to be first with the latest developments, then we should be able to expect that Apple's version will get it right from the start.
 
Jan 31, 2011
164
Newcastle, Australia
Sue
Luna or Ubuntu? Frankly, I'd love to hear how either works out.



The question is... will they learn anything from this episode or is this the new normal?
I was an Ubuntu fan for years, but I utterly detest the "Unity" UI. Luna is based on Ubuntu, and is much lighter. Another to consider is Linux Mint. Also based on Ubuntu. I tend to prefer those distros that are, even though my Linux playing began with Redhat5, and then Mandrake up to 9 (Now Mandriva). Not that fond of KDE either.

And sadly I think you are right about the new normal. Someone in Apple Discussions suggested trying Tinkertool on Yosemite. I'll report back if it works (or even if it doesnt).... And, it doesnt. oh well. at least I now have a way to display hidden files.
 
And just to be clear and repeat the point I made in my OP, I have no problem with an OS or iOS outgrowing the hardware. The hardware can't last forever. But I feel Apple clearly should have not offered iOS 8 for the iPad 2 and iPhone 4s, which have trouble handling it. I also think that if Apple isn't going to be first with the latest developments, then we should be able to expect that Apple's version will get it right from the start.
Sorry, but I totally disagree.. I think you are asking for a update to make your old equipment run like a new model.. what is with that? Blow the dust out of your wallet and get up to "speed"..pun intended.. or quit your griping... you are one of the few..
 

Luke

Super Moderator
Nov 11, 2011
214
Milwaukee, WI USA
Luke
Mr. Doug, I'm not sure you are understanding his original point. His hardware worked FINE with the old software. The new software just demands more than the old hardware has in it. I think he's suggesting that they at a certain point if they come up with a new OS that has demands that are beyond the old gear, they should let people know.

I don't use the gear in question, but I think Biro would prefer to have his iPad2 and iPhone4s with iOS7 when it worked perfectly fine than "update" (that word seems silly here when it is actually a downgrade) to iOS8 and have his machines take a massive performance hit.

And one look at his camera gear signature line should tell you that his problem is not dust collecting in his wallet :eek:

Again, I don't use Apple products, but his gripes that the new OS is too much for the older platforms seems legitimate from this outsiders view.
 
Luke.. I get his original point and complaint. Apple offers options when you hit the update alert (software update) of what the new OS version downloads offer and what hardware OS is compatible. There is also a review section available of the update.. You have the option not to update.. Pure and simple.. So I don't get his complaint.. I think he just is pissed at Apple because his equipment is getting old.. It's kinda like saying I am upset at Olympus because my EPL-1 doesn't perform like the new EPL-7..
Doug
 

Biro

Super Moderator
Aug 7, 2011
124
Jersey Shore
Steve
Luke.. I get his original point and complaint. Apple offers options when you hit the update alert (software update) of what the new OS version downloads offer and what hardware OS is compatible. There is also a review section available of the update.. You have the option not to update.. Pure and simple.. So I don't get his complaint.. I think he just is pissed at Apple because his equipment is getting old.. It's kinda like saying I am upset at Olympus because my EPL-1 doesn't perform like the new EPL-7..
Doug
Doug, I have clearly stated my position. However, you maintain that it is otherwise. Kudos to you for being able to read my mind. The fact is, Apple has a track record of finally getting new OS's right (or at least reasonably right) on the first full update. Example: iOS 7.1 vs. 7.0. I waited for iOS 8.1 to come out before updating - skipping 8.0, 8.0.1 and 8.0.2. I certainly won't make that mistake again. But you are completely wrong when you say that I am "pissed" because my equipment is getting old. I don't expect an iPad 2 to perform like an iPad Air 2 - ever, regardless of software. I don't expect an iPhone 4s to perform like an iPhone 6 - ever, regardless of software. But I was quite pleased with both on iOS 7.1. This is a case of Apple mucking up the latest iOS and not being realistic about which existing hardware could handle it. If you feel otherwise, fine, it's your right. But please don't tell me what I think. I shall afford you the same courtesy.
 

KillRamsey

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2012
124
Hood River, OR
Kyle
I'm reading this with interest. We have an emac (the little cubey thing) from... 8 years ago? Attached to the tv, as a internet-pulling device for netflix, hulu, hbogo. It's finally (FINALLY) not able to actually view videos on any of those sites anymore, period. It can't be updated, either. And that's ok, 8 years of heavy use was a good run. Meanwhile, we borrowed a ~4 yr old Macbook Pro from a friend for the Missus to use for graphic stuff. It has the full Adobe Creative suite on it. I have enjoyed the bejeezus out of it - I started tinkering with it this past week, and I can see taking it for granted VERY quickly.

Is it worth spending ~$500 on such a device, buying it from her? Would I be in trouble in a year or two when it's no longer up to snuff?
 
Aug 27, 2013
124
Talent, Oregon (far from the madding crowd)
Miguel Tejada-Flores
General Sympathy and a Word of Unneeded Advice

Have just finished reading this thread and I have immense amounts of sympathy for the phenomenon described - upgrading to a new IOS and then discovering either that a) it doesn't work like it should, or b) it slows your formerly zippy device down to a tortoise-like crawl.

The sad truth is that this phenomenon is not limited to new IOS's for iPhones and iPads - but it's been going on for a long long lonnnnngggg time. And as someone, I think John Flores, pointed out in an earlier post, it's often smarter to avoid doing updates unless a) you have a strong reason to, and b) you're absolutely certain that it will improve and not degrade the performance/attributes/qualities of your device. Of course, determining that isn't easy - it's more and more complicated lately, especially with the evolution of new and newer (like Dumb and Dumber) IOS's which continually pester the user telling us that it's time for an Upgrade and it's soooo easy and we should just click on that little Upgrade button -

Software/system upgrades are potentially irritating and sometimes dangerous. In fact, there's an entire website devoted to users, fans and devotees of older Mac computers and devices who want to continue using their otherwise excellent but seemingly 'outdated' older Macs and devices - and have discovered, among other things, that software/system upgrades are often 'degrades' and/or sometimes the kiss of metaphoric death. The website, for those interested - is www.lowendmac.com - for Mac users only, alas.

Among other irritations which generations of serious Mac computer users have complained and griped about is the recent dumbing-down of all the Apple/Mac IOS's to resemble brightly-colored and simplistic iPhones. The newer Mac OS upgrades - Mavericks and now Yosemite - have incorporated many of the supposedly simple/cool/advanced features of touchscreen smartphones from the iPhone - but the sad truth is that they mess up the otherwise wonderful/elegant/functional older Apple competer OS's. Not to mention that the phenomenon described at the beginning of this thread - an upgrade which slows down or degrades your device - is equally true for laptops and computers. Apple's Mavericks' OS is an improvement in some ways over previous OS's - but unless you have newer hardware, it slows older machines down to a crawl, as many users (myself included) discover. But I was obliged to upgrade my OS for my desktop and laptop for software compatibility reasons (I needed to get new upgrades) and so I found myself in the same boat.

With regards to IOS 8, it seems to work wonderfully on any of the newer Gen Apple iDevices - iPhone 5 and newer - but, yeah, it would have been nice if Apple had warned everyone about that before trumpeting the virtues of the new system. But it's part of 'progress'. With regards to iDevices, I have an ancient iPad 2 which I'm running iOS 6 on - I NEVER upgraded to iOS 7 let alone iOS 8 - for the simple reason that iOS 6 is way more modifiable or 'hackable' - and can be used with not only cool external keyboards (a must for serious writing on iPads) but also can be 'hacked' to use a WiFi mouse! Try doing that on newer iOS's (7 or 8) - it's impossible - but the older IOS is infinitely more customizable.

The Moral of the story is: DON'T EVER upgrade unless a) you have a good reason to - and b) you're certain that it will work decently on whatever device you're upgrading to. The other classic problem, which I think Christie mentioned, has to do with not having enough built-in memory - aka 'RAM' - in your device. Upgrading an older device to the newer System can cause crippling slowdowns if the device doesn't have enough built-in operating memory or RAM. Unfortunately, with smartphones & tablets, the amount of RAM your device/phone/tablet has can't be modified. With most laptops, desktops, MacBooks or whatever, if you experience a slowdown for whatever reason (and,yes, people, this happens with non-Mac and non-Apple devices as well! it's not just Apple's short sightedness but rather an industry-wide phenomenon that's existed for a lonnnnggg time), you can often cure the problem by adding more RAM. It's a relatively cheap (and often easy-to-do) upgrade that can speed your ancient device up again in a flash.

My sympathies again to everyone who's gnashing their teeth over an upgrade-caused slowdown. But, from my own perspective, I can't really blame Apple for it - it's part of how the entire industry works - and those of us who don't want to replace our perfectly good hardware every 2 or 3 years with something supposedly newer and better, have to deal with the consequences. Incidentally, I'm in the same boat as many of you: I had to upgrade my desktop computer (an older and quite cute Mac Mini) to a newer OS a year ago or so, for what were good, real, and compelling reasons - and have experienced massive slowdowns since. My alternatives have now boiled down to either an expensive (in my case) RAM upgrade - or (more likely) replacing my ancient desktop with a slightly newer, faster (and more RAM-equipped) one. But damn it can be irritating when something that used to take seconds....now seems to take hours.

Miguel
 
Doug, I have clearly stated my position. However, you maintain that it is otherwise. Kudos to you for being able to read my mind. The fact is, Apple has a track record of finally getting new OS's right (or at least reasonably right) on the first full update. Example: iOS 7.1 vs. 7.0. I waited for iOS 8.1 to come out before updating - skipping 8.0, 8.0.1 and 8.0.2. I certainly won't make that mistake again. But you are completely wrong when you say that I am "pissed" because my equipment is getting old. I don't expect an iPad 2 to perform like an iPad Air 2 - ever, regardless of software. I don't expect an iPhone 4s to perform like an iPhone 6 - ever, regardless of software. But I was quite pleased with both on iOS 7.1. This is a case of Apple mucking up the latest iOS and not being realistic about which existing hardware could handle it. If you feel otherwise, fine, it's your right. But please don't tell me what I think. I shall afford you the same courtesy.
No problem.. A-OK Sir..
 

Chrisnmn

Veteran
Jul 8, 2012
103
Auckland, New Zealand
Chris Leskovsek
Funny Fuji and Ricoh does firmwares to improve performance on their cameras even 'old ones' (for todays standards of 'old'), Apple and others do firmwares to actually kill the gear and make you obsolete every 3 months or so. But again, Sony and Olympus release cameras quite a few times a year with very MINOR upgrades on the cameras.

Like Luke said is planned obsolescence and I personally hate that. Back in the day camera manufacturers would promote their a camera to last a lifetime and we still can use them now. Good luck with any of the new ones in 10 years time. 16 mega what? no wifi?...geeze how people could shoot that way.
 
Jan 31, 2011
164
Newcastle, Australia
Sue
Just as an FYI, 10.10.1 is officially out. I've been in the beta program and it was so bugridden, I really wished I was not. I'm about to update because my beta is a bit older, and they recommend doing it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 

yakky

Regular
Nov 30, 2013
18
I don't upgrade either because each is iteration makes the device that much slower.

In other news apple will be installing Beats music with the next upgrade. Every phone gets a thug installed for free!
 

Lightmancer

Super Moderator
Aug 13, 2011
164
Sunny Frimley
Bill Palmer
Heh...my view is slightly different. When I travel into That London on the train, I am amused by the bald pates of the businessmen in their suits with a set of "bling" Beats headphones - redefinition of the term "incongruous" if you ask me... Surely they can't all be listening to Doctor Dread, Snoopy Dogg, Timberlands or Titchy Stroller?
 

john m flores

All-Pro
Aug 13, 2012
124
Funny Fuji and Ricoh does firmwares to improve performance on their cameras even 'old ones' (for todays standards of 'old'), Apple and others do firmwares to actually kill the gear and make you obsolete every 3 months or so. But again, Sony and Olympus release cameras quite a few times a year with very MINOR upgrades on the cameras.

Like Luke said is planned obsolescence and I personally hate that. Back in the day camera manufacturers would promote their a camera to last a lifetime and we still can use them now. Good luck with any of the new ones in 10 years time. 16 mega what? no wifi?...geeze how people could shoot that way.
A camera is a single purpose device. A computer, smartphone, or tablet are different things entirely. Much more complex, so you're kind of comparing Apple with…oranges?
 

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