Micro 4/3 To switch or not to switch?

Just wondering with the battery drain issue, is that with all batteries? Have you tried a relatively new battery? Sometimes as batteries age, they just don't hold their charge as much.

But on the topic of camera swapping. If you are already satisified with the current m4/3 cameras, and don't feel you are lacking in anything, I'd stay with m43. It'll be cheaper and as you said, the price of second hand gear makes it pretty affordable.

I added a sony a7c to my kit, as I felt I was missing out with high ISO images and good AF tracking.
Sorry to butt in, but: Yes, it happens with all batteries (been there, too). And *all* GX8* and GX9 bodies are affected to some extend - it's not too bad with my current GX9, but I consider it bad enough to store the camera without battery. Of course, that can mean hassles as well ...

And if we're talking FF as well, well: Nikon Z 5, either Z 24-70mm f/4 S (day-to-day shooting) or Z 24-200mm f/4-6.3 (travel) plus Z 40mm f/2, and you're set. As a matter of fact, I'd pick the Z 5 setup over any G9 kit (and the Z 6 II over any current :mu43: top-range offer). It isn't more expensive, either. And of course, you then have access to the whole Z system - no more "limitations".

EDIT: @stratokaster You beat me to it :)

M.
 
Thank you guys for your replies, lots of interesting and useful advice.

Miguel and Mark, I agree with you about the G9 being a superb camera; however, I know myself very well, and if a camera gets past a certain threshold in terms of size, I am much less likely to take it out with me, and the GX8 is already very close to that line. The G9 and E-M1.II and III are definitely too bulky for me (even if I appreciate that it improves their handling somewhat).

William, I am not really interested in getting a full-frame camera at the moment, be it Canon, Nikon or Sony. The cameras themselves might be small, but the lenses are large and heavy, and I try to stay as light as possible. I might add an "orphan" full-frame body as a digital back for adapted manual lenses sometime in the future, but it's not a top priority.

Matt and Andrew, unfortunately, I'm not really interested in getting an Olympus camera either; I don't like their ergonomics (I use my left eye to compose, and the area around the EVF tends to be a bit cramped on Olympus cameras, so I inevitably end up smearing my glasses with my thumb), and I don't trust their reliability. I know that many people would disagree with me on this, but that's just what I came to believe over the years. The E-M5.III is definitely out of the equation because my favourite way to carry a camera while hiking is a Peak Design Capture clip, and apparently that's a very good way to end up with a cracked bottom plate on the E-M5.III.

Matt, I agree with you about weather sealing. I live in Ireland, and in addition to rainy days (when it rains non-stop) we also have normal days when we get 5-10 bouts of rain throughout the day, often interspersed with periods of sunshine. It usually makes for spectacular lighting, but you definitely want a camera that has at least some form of protection against the elements.

I guess I will get myself a lightly used or refurbished G90, and then we'll see what the future brings...
 
I recently bought a Panasonic Lumix S5 and I absolutely love it. It's larger than m43 of course, but if you keep to 100mm or less then it's not a huge difference. IQ, esp in low light, is significantly better. AF is absolutely fine for what I do. There are some stunning deals on the S5 now with the S5ii about to be announced.
 
Earlier this month I actually borrowed the E-M1 Mark II to see if I would like it. I realized that the E-M1.II, despite being effectively a pro-level body, was actually a tiny bit smaller and only a bit heavier than the Panasonic G90 (but with a much better battery life).

My impressions of the camera are twofold. Physically it appears to be built rather well (although on the camera I borrowed, all three rubber grip covers were stretched and loose), with comfortable shape and nicely spaced controls. It is also not really larger than the Panasonic GX8: the difference in size is mostly due to the grip size, and as soon as you mount any lens on both cameras, they have effectively the same footprint in the bag.

In terms of software / UI, it is... not good at all. Long time Olympus shooters would probably disagree, but its firmware really is one of the most poorly designed pieces of software I have ever seen. In terms of user friendliness, it is about the same as Oracle ERP, and only slightly more exciting to use. And the manual is mostly useless, it is extremely cryptic and not very well organized. I mean, Panasonic or Nikon manuals are not shining examples of beautiful prose either, but at least they are readable.

The camera has extensive customization options, but they are also curiously limited in unexpected ways, for example, there is no way to assign ISO to a button. It can only be set as one of the options for the "Multi function" button or directly assigned to one of the dials if you choose to use the Fn lever to change the function of the dials. Not a big deal for me in the stills mode (I typically use Auto ISO anyway), but still puzzling.

Speaking of the Fn lever, it's a very clever control that effectively doubles the number of control points on the camera, but it's also located in such a way that I ended up poking myself in the right eye every time I wanted to use it while looking through the viewfinder (I use my left eye for framing). This unfortunately rules it out for me as the way to quickly access the settings I need all the time. I thought that maybe I should use it to quickly turn Face Priority AF on and off, but no, you can't do that either. You can use it to switch between two different AF modes (e.g. S-AF with single AF area and C-AF with 3x3 grid), but to enable or disable the Face Priority AF, you have to use the Super Control Panel. If there is a way to set it the way I want, I couldn't find it and would welcome suggestions from long-time Olympus shooters.

But hey, you can directly assign one touch WB to a button (as far as I know, Panasonic cameras can't do that, at least the GX8 definitely cannot), so that's one win for Olympus.

In terms of AF, the camera is a mixed bag as well. I don't usually shoot sports or birds in flight, so I can't comment on its tracking abilities (I suspect they are much better than anything Panasonic simply because it has PDAF). However, in terms of regular single-focus AF it's noticeably less flexible than Panasonic cameras. My main gripe is that the smallest AF area size is pretty huge, whereas on Panasonic cameras you can set it to be much, much smaller. I actually had several shots where I aimed for the eye but the camera focused on the cheek or the eyebrow instead simply because those AF areas are so large. I can't see a way to work around this either (short of using S-AF+MF and adjusting the focus manually). Panasonic also has an extremely useful pinpoint AF mode which really allows you to focus with extreme precision. Olympus also has AF with magnification (page 41 of the manual), but its implementation is noticeably less clever than Panasonic's because the magnified area occupies the whole screen all the time, whereas on Panasonic cameras you get normal framing with an enlarged area in the center of the screen which only shows up while the AF is active. Also on the Olympus, you have to assign this function to a separate button, and then it takes at least two button presses to get to this mode. Once again, perhaps I missed something in the sprawling menus, so I would welcome any suggestions from seasoned Olympus aficionados.

However (and this is rather huge for me), with the latest firmware the phase detection AF works in video! It's not nearly as good as Sony, but obviously much better than Panasonic's DFD setup.

The E-M1 mark II also feels extremely quick and responsive in use, except when starting up—its boot-up time is really quite long and reminds me of my ancient Sony DSC-R1. Disappointing for a camera that was billed as a speed demon. The GX8 is more sluggish in operation, but at least it turns on almost instantly.

In terms of RAW output, the E-M1 mark II is more or less the same as the GX8, maybe a tiny bit sharper and infinitesimally cleaner at higher ISOs, but the differences are purely academic.

In the end, I really would like to make it work for one reason: an Olympus camera with a Panasonic lens is weather sealed, but a Panasonic camera with an Olympus lens is not weather sealed because the rubber gasket on Olympus lenses sits outside the lens mount on Panasonic bodies. I would like to get at least one weather sealed fast prime, but Panasonic only makes them in focal lengths I don't really like (12 and 25mm), so this means that I would need an Olympus to get a weather sealed combo with Oly 17/1.2 or 20/1.4. But it seems at the moment I'm not ready to bond with an Olympus camera. Or maybe I just need to use it for a longer time to get used to its deficiencies.

In the meanwhile, I bought another GX8. It was in perfect condition, the shutter count was less than 5000, and the price was extremely low — how could I say no?..
 
The rubber grips coming loose was a well-known problem with Olympus cameras up to the E-M1 Mk II. When the E-M1 Mk III was released, the grips were changed to a different material. I have had no problems with grips coming off on my E-M1 Mk III, or the OM-1, for that matter.
 
In terms of software / UI, it is... not good at all. Long time Olympus shooters would probably disagree, but its firmware really is one of the most poorly designed pieces of software I have ever seen. In terms of user friendliness, it is about the same as Oracle ERP, and only slightly more exciting to use. And the manual is mostly useless, it is extremely cryptic and not very well organized. I mean, Panasonic or Nikon manuals are not shining examples of beautiful prose either, but at least they are readable.
I personally have no issues with the Oly UI. I really think it's a case of getting used to it. All cameras have their foibles in the area. I recently got a Panasonic S5 (which is very similar to the G9 in its UI) and initially struggled, wishing it was more like the Olympus gear I have. But I've now adapted and quite like it.
The camera has extensive customization options, but they are also curiously limited in unexpected ways, for example, there is no way to assign ISO to a button. It can only be set as one of the options for the "Multi function" button or directly assigned to one of the dials if you choose to use the Fn lever to change the function of the dials. Not a big deal for me in the stills mode (I typically use Auto ISO anyway), but still puzzling.
You can assign ISO to a button - that's exactly what I do. Not sure why you think it's not possible.
In terms of AF, the camera is a mixed bag as well. I don't usually shoot sports or birds in flight, so I can't comment on its tracking abilities (I suspect they are much better than anything Panasonic simply because it has PDAF). However, in terms of regular single-focus AF it's noticeably less flexible than Panasonic cameras. My main gripe is that the smallest AF area size is pretty huge, whereas on Panasonic cameras you can set it to be much, much smaller. I actually had several shots where I aimed for the eye but the camera focused on the cheek or the eyebrow instead simply because those AF areas are so large. I can't see a way to work around this either (short of using S-AF+MF and adjusting the focus manually). Panasonic also has an extremely useful pinpoint AF mode which really allows you to focus with extreme precision. Olympus also has AF with magnification (page 41 of the manual), but its implementation is noticeably less clever than Panasonic's because the magnified area occupies the whole screen all the time, whereas on Panasonic cameras you get normal framing with an enlarged area in the center of the screen which only shows up while the AF is active. Also on the Olympus, you have to assign this function to a separate button, and then it takes at least two button presses to get to this mode. Once again, perhaps I missed something in the sprawling menus, so I would welcome any suggestions from seasoned Olympus aficionados.
I guess it's what we get used to. I think the smallest AF point it small enough. But I agree that the Panasonic pinpoint AF is really great and I wish Olympus would do something similar.

In terms of RAW output, the E-M1 mark II is more or less the same as the GX8, maybe a tiny bit sharper and infinitesimally cleaner at higher ISOs, but the differences are purely academic.
There should be a slight improvement in shadow noise if you go pushing it in LR - but it's pretty minor. In truth m43 sensor performance has hardly moved on since the 16Mp Sony sensor appeared in the EM5 back in 2013.
In the end, I really would like to make it work for one reason: an Olympus camera with a Panasonic lens is weather sealed, but a Panasonic camera with an Olympus lens is not weather sealed because the rubber gasket on Olympus lenses sits outside the lens mount on Panasonic bodies. I would like to get at least one weather sealed fast prime, but Panasonic only makes them in focal lengths I don't really like (12 and 25mm), so this means that I would need an Olympus to get a weather sealed combo with Oly 17/1.2 or 20/1.4. But it seems at the moment I'm not ready to bond with an Olympus camera. Or maybe I just need to use it for a longer time to get used to its deficiencies.
These sort of differences really annoy me. Why can't a standard be a standard? Even in L-mount, where the stated goal is total interoperability, there are limitations - e.g. the TCs from Panasonic and Sigma are not interchangeable.
In the meanwhile, I bought another GX8. It was in perfect condition, the shutter count was less than 5000, and the price was extremely low — how could I say no?..
The GX8 is a lovely camera. I've never owned one - maybe I should pickup a used one too :)
 
If you think the Olympus UI is bad, look at a Sony.
I have had Sony users tell me that the Sony UI "STINKS."

You get used to whatever you are using.
I used the EM1-mk2 and the UI on the OM1 is so different, that I hate having to use both cameras at the same time.
 
Earlier this month I actually borrowed the E-M1 Mark II to see if I would like it. I realized that the E-M1.II, despite being effectively a pro-level body, was actually a tiny bit smaller and only a bit heavier than the Panasonic G90 (but with a much better battery life).

My impressions of the camera are twofold. Physically it appears to be built rather well (although on the camera I borrowed, all three rubber grip covers were stretched and loose), with comfortable shape and nicely spaced controls. It is also not really larger than the Panasonic GX8: the difference in size is mostly due to the grip size, and as soon as you mount any lens on both cameras, they have effectively the same footprint in the bag.

In terms of software / UI, it is... not good at all. Long time Olympus shooters would probably disagree, but its firmware really is one of the most poorly designed pieces of software I have ever seen. In terms of user friendliness, it is about the same as Oracle ERP, and only slightly more exciting to use. And the manual is mostly useless, it is extremely cryptic and not very well organized. I mean, Panasonic or Nikon manuals are not shining examples of beautiful prose either, but at least they are readable.

The camera has extensive customization options, but they are also curiously limited in unexpected ways, for example, there is no way to assign ISO to a button. It can only be set as one of the options for the "Multi function" button or directly assigned to one of the dials if you choose to use the Fn lever to change the function of the dials. Not a big deal for me in the stills mode (I typically use Auto ISO anyway), but still puzzling.

Speaking of the Fn lever, it's a very clever control that effectively doubles the number of control points on the camera, but it's also located in such a way that I ended up poking myself in the right eye every time I wanted to use it while looking through the viewfinder (I use my left eye for framing). This unfortunately rules it out for me as the way to quickly access the settings I need all the time. I thought that maybe I should use it to quickly turn Face Priority AF on and off, but no, you can't do that either. You can use it to switch between two different AF modes (e.g. S-AF with single AF area and C-AF with 3x3 grid), but to enable or disable the Face Priority AF, you have to use the Super Control Panel. If there is a way to set it the way I want, I couldn't find it and would welcome suggestions from long-time Olympus shooters.

But hey, you can directly assign one touch WB to a button (as far as I know, Panasonic cameras can't do that, at least the GX8 definitely cannot), so that's one win for Olympus.

In terms of AF, the camera is a mixed bag as well. I don't usually shoot sports or birds in flight, so I can't comment on its tracking abilities (I suspect they are much better than anything Panasonic simply because it has PDAF). However, in terms of regular single-focus AF it's noticeably less flexible than Panasonic cameras. My main gripe is that the smallest AF area size is pretty huge, whereas on Panasonic cameras you can set it to be much, much smaller. I actually had several shots where I aimed for the eye but the camera focused on the cheek or the eyebrow instead simply because those AF areas are so large. I can't see a way to work around this either (short of using S-AF+MF and adjusting the focus manually). Panasonic also has an extremely useful pinpoint AF mode which really allows you to focus with extreme precision. Olympus also has AF with magnification (page 41 of the manual), but its implementation is noticeably less clever than Panasonic's because the magnified area occupies the whole screen all the time, whereas on Panasonic cameras you get normal framing with an enlarged area in the center of the screen which only shows up while the AF is active. Also on the Olympus, you have to assign this function to a separate button, and then it takes at least two button presses to get to this mode. Once again, perhaps I missed something in the sprawling menus, so I would welcome any suggestions from seasoned Olympus aficionados.

However (and this is rather huge for me), with the latest firmware the phase detection AF works in video! It's not nearly as good as Sony, but obviously much better than Panasonic's DFD setup.

The E-M1 mark II also feels extremely quick and responsive in use, except when starting up—its boot-up time is really quite long and reminds me of my ancient Sony DSC-R1. Disappointing for a camera that was billed as a speed demon. The GX8 is more sluggish in operation, but at least it turns on almost instantly.

In terms of RAW output, the E-M1 mark II is more or less the same as the GX8, maybe a tiny bit sharper and infinitesimally cleaner at higher ISOs, but the differences are purely academic.

In the end, I really would like to make it work for one reason: an Olympus camera with a Panasonic lens is weather sealed, but a Panasonic camera with an Olympus lens is not weather sealed because the rubber gasket on Olympus lenses sits outside the lens mount on Panasonic bodies. I would like to get at least one weather sealed fast prime, but Panasonic only makes them in focal lengths I don't really like (12 and 25mm), so this means that I would need an Olympus to get a weather sealed combo with Oly 17/1.2 or 20/1.4. But it seems at the moment I'm not ready to bond with an Olympus camera. Or maybe I just need to use it for a longer time to get used to its deficiencies.

In the meanwhile, I bought another GX8. It was in perfect condition, the shutter count was less than 5000, and the price was extremely low — how could I say no?..

Congrats on the GX8, Pavel... it simply has to be one of the most enjoyable and satisfying cameras I have ever handled. I hope it serves you well as you mull your other options.
 
I find the OM-1 UI organization and readability to be much better than the previous (E-M1 original, Mk. 2 & Mk. 3) UIs.

That may be true.
But the problem is when the menu is significantly changed. It creates a BREAK with the prior menus in the other cameras, such that using both cameras at the same times is confusing. It is like shooting a Nikon and a Canon at the same time.

I wish OMDS would make a new FW to update the EM1-mk2/3 menu to be similar to the OM1, so there is ONE menu design.

So, until I get a second OM1, when I have to carry two cameras, it will be the EM-mk2.
I don't need the added issue of two different menus to deal with, to mess things up in a shoot.
 
If you think the Olympus UI is bad, look at a Sony.
I have had Sony users tell me that the Sony UI "STINKS."

You get used to whatever you are using.
I used the EM1-mk2 and the UI on the OM1 is so different, that I hate having to use both cameras at the same time.
'Stunk'.

Until the A7M4, which features the new menu layout, similar to other manufacturers.

What's funny is the OM-1's new improved menu looks ridiculously close to the old Sony menu, which...um..."Stinks"?

Like you said, it's what you get used to. It's kind of like the flippy screen versus articulating.

Om-1 top, Sony A7RII bottom

OM-1l.jpg
Sony-A7riii-menus-3.jpg
 
The new Sony layout, and old Olympus

A7IV.jpg
EM1.jpg


I bought my two Sony cameras with different menu layouts within a few months of each other, so had to learn them at the same time. I prefer the new one but can navigate both with no problem for the most part. I still have to dig for more obscure settings, but it's not as hard as I thought it'd be. This is where My Menu/Favorites come in handy.
 
Congrats on the GX8, Pavel... it simply has to be one of the most enjoyable and satisfying cameras I have ever handled. I hope it serves you well as you mull your other options.
Thank you Miguel.

The seller said that the camera had less than 5000 shots, I've just checked and its shutter count is only 2200, so I got a practically new camera for peanuts!
 
I wish OMDS would make a new FW to update the EM1-mk2/3 menu to be similar to the OM1, so there is ONE menu design.

So, until I get a second OM1, when I have to carry two cameras, it will be the EM-mk2.
I don't need the added issue of two different menus to deal with, to mess things up in a shoot.
I agree. But at least you can build a MyMenu menu that looks similar for the two different cameras. With the E-M5.3 you don't even have that option. (Yayyy for the OM-5!!). While they are doing that FW upgrade, it would be really nice to add support for the new wireless remote to the E-M1.3 (again a yayy for the OM-5).
 
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