Compact Travel camera - LX5 or G1X or X10

bartjeej

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bart
I honestly don't know about the X10's auto mode, and we won't know about the G1X's untill it's released and tested - but I've seen several sources who were very enthusiastic about Panasonic's auto modes. I don't know if the newer models surpassed the Panasonic's though; but I could imagine the more advanced the target user for a certain camera is, the less attention is paid to the auto modes?
 

Biro

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Also, my brother gets excellent results with the Nikon P7100. Basically, it's like a G12 except with a very useful 28-200 zoom range. Never mind pixel-peeping; in the real world this camera delivers fine results. I've been very impressed.
 

Armanius

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@Ryan - Out of the three cameras, the LX5 and G1X are probably easier to use for someone that is only going to use the Auto mode on the camera. I haven't played with the G1X yet, but Canon G camera interfaces are usually very good. I have the X10, which can be set on auto EXR mode, and give excellent results. But the interface (a little quirky sometimes) and various modes is more geared towards an enthusiast, in my opinion.

The G1X is not out for the masses yet, but it has a sensor that is relatively larger than either the LX5 or the X10. Logically speaking, it should provide good image quality that is likely better than the other two, even just in full auto mode.

To go back to your original question of 24 vs 28mm, it doesn't make that much of a difference for me, because I rarely feel constrained by 28mm. When shooting landscape or most architecture, I just step back if I need wider. But it sure is nice to have the extra wide during those times when we are crammed into a smaller space.

Sony also makes some decent point and shoot cameras that go as wide as 25mm, but will also zoom in to over 300mm. If you are interested in that category of cameras, let us know. Some folks here have experience with "travel zooms."
 

Boid

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One would imagine that you set the focus and then take the shot so it shouldn't cause any further shaking of the camera than normal when taking the picture.

Well you're right of course. But I have the M9 in mind when talking about the manual focus ;) Which is a completely unfair comparison for sure! I just wish I had a good old fashioned focus ring around the lens. Also I like shooting portraits at parties and low light situations, and a preset zone focus is not as useful in those situations.
 

Boid

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Manual focus is roughly the same on all of these cameras (I obviously don't KNOW about the new Canon, but assume its pretty similar). They're terrible for actual critical focus on a shot that you're trying to focus as you shoot, BUT they just fine for setting the camera for zone focus and firing away. And the LX5 and X10 also have soooo much depth of field because of the small sensors that its VERY easy to establish a huge zone of focus and just fire away. The new Canon should be less good for this because of the larger sensor - you'll need a smaller aperture to get the same DOF which means its less good for zone focus in low light. In NO CASE should you believe the electronic depth of field scales these cameras provide - they're horribly inaccurate. The LX5 wasn't THAT bad, but the X10 is very bad (as are the small Ricoh models) and the S90 didn't have one, so perhaps the new Canon won't either??? Build your own DOF table and get to know what apertures work with what focus distances for the kinds of shooting you generally do...

-Ray

You know Ray, I have never really given the LX5 a good outing with a predetermined zone focus. I will get to setting that right, right away and will post a few pictures. Thanks!
 

Ryan

Regular
Armanius's - Thanks for your feedback.

I have too different thoughts since I am mainly looking to always use the camera on Auto mode. Looking for something I can grab, but isn't too small to hold, and enjoy the camera. I am interested in something like the LX5 or G1X or the successor to the ZS10 or SX230.

I haven't heard much yet about the ZS10 or SX230 successor, but I think they would serve my purposes well and offer more zoom for when needed.

@Ryan - Out of the three cameras, the LX5 and G1X are probably easier to use for someone that is only going to use the Auto mode on the camera. I haven't played with the G1X yet, but Canon G camera interfaces are usually very good. I have the X10, which can be set on auto EXR mode, and give excellent results. But the interface (a little quirky sometimes) and various modes is more geared towards an enthusiast, in my opinion.

The G1X is not out for the masses yet, but it has a sensor that is relatively larger than either the LX5 or the X10. Logically speaking, it should provide good image quality that is likely better than the other two, even just in full auto mode.

To go back to your original question of 24 vs 28mm, it doesn't make that much of a difference for me, because I rarely feel constrained by 28mm. When shooting landscape or most architecture, I just step back if I need wider. But it sure is nice to have the extra wide during those times when we are crammed into a smaller space.

Sony also makes some decent point and shoot cameras that go as wide as 25mm, but will also zoom in to over 300mm. If you are interested in that category of cameras, let us know. Some folks here have experience with "travel zooms."
 

Ryan

Regular
Have heard mixed reviews on the latest Fuji F cameras. Just noticed they came out with the F660EXR; not sure if there are many if any improvements from the F600EXR, but it is really geared towards someone who use Auto nearly all of the time or do you have to mess with the modes alot? Not interested in RAW, solely JPEG.


You could try the F600EXR, smaller than all of the above 24-360mm zoom, quite decent hi ISO, does RAW as well
 

Armanius

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@Ryan - I used to have the Panasonic TZ5, one of the ZS10's predecessors. The TZ5 was a fine camera, and I enjoyed it a lot. Not the best camera in terms of image quality, but very easy to use, and highly flexible zoom range from 26-300 or something like that. I have read that the SX230 is arguably the best travel zoom right now. I believe some folks have commented on that in another thread. DPReview also has a travel zoom comparison in which the SX230 received the most accolades out of the six or so cameras tested. I haven't read much about their successors either. But if a camera meets your needs now, no need to wait for something newer. Unless you are a gadget freak like me ... which is not good! :)
 

Ryan

Regular
Yes, and unfortunately from what I have heard, the IQ of the ZS line has some what gone down with each new generation. I have been looking at the FAX150 and I am hoping Panasonic takes the same approach to the ZS10 successor.

As for the SX230, I was looking at the reviews and it does seem like a strong performer. Hoping to buy the camera in the next month or so and not really in any rush. Figure I would look at everything out there now and coming out in the next month to get the most for my money.

@Ryan - I used to have the Panasonic TZ5, one of the ZS10's predecessors. The TZ5 was a fine camera, and I enjoyed it a lot. Not the best camera in terms of image quality, but very easy to use, and highly flexible zoom range from 26-300 or something like that. I have read that the SX230 is arguably the best travel zoom right now. I believe some folks have commented on that in another thread. DPReview also has a travel zoom comparison in which the SX230 received the most accolades out of the six or so cameras tested. I haven't read much about their successors either. But if a camera meets your needs now, no need to wait for something newer. Unless you are a gadget freak like me ... which is not good! :)
 

Ryan

Regular
The more I think about it, as much as I am sure I would like it, it seems kind of pointless to buy a $800 and use it solely in Auto mode which is my intent. Or is the best IQ, even in Auto mode, worth it?

Thoughts?

@Ryan - Out of the three cameras, the LX5 and G1X are probably easier to use for someone that is only going to use the Auto mode on the camera. I haven't played with the G1X yet, but Canon G camera interfaces are usually very good. I have the X10, which can be set on auto EXR mode, and give excellent results. But the interface (a little quirky sometimes) and various modes is more geared towards an enthusiast, in my opinion.

The G1X is not out for the masses yet, but it has a sensor that is relatively larger than either the LX5 or the X10. Logically speaking, it should provide good image quality that is likely better than the other two, even just in full auto mode.

To go back to your original question of 24 vs 28mm, it doesn't make that much of a difference for me, because I rarely feel constrained by 28mm. When shooting landscape or most architecture, I just step back if I need wider. But it sure is nice to have the extra wide during those times when we are crammed into a smaller space.

Sony also makes some decent point and shoot cameras that go as wide as 25mm, but will also zoom in to over 300mm. If you are interested in that category of cameras, let us know. Some folks here have experience with "travel zooms."
 

Armanius

Bring Jack back!
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Jack
The more I think about it, as much as I am sure I would like it, it seems kind of pointless to buy a $800 and use it solely in Auto mode which is my intent. Or is the best IQ, even in Auto mode, worth it?

Thoughts?

It depends again on how serious you are or you think you will be. Most point and shoots look pretty good if you are going to just look at the photos on a 13" LCD laptop screen, in Facebook, or making small 4x6" prints. But if you like to pixel peep (i.e. look at images at 100% on a big LCD) or make big prints, then image quality and resolution definitely become an issue. Personally, $800 is a lot to leave the camera just on auto. $800 can get you most of the Micro4/3 cameras, the Sony NEX5n, and also DSLR's like the Rebel T3i and Nikon 5100. You will gain the ability to change lenses in the future. But the tradeoff is a slightly larger package than the G1X. And perhaps getting lens buying addiction (a.k.a. "LBA"), which can get really costly! :)
 

Ryan

Regular
I know what you mean, I am trying to find a happy balance. :)

Don't want the expense or complexity of the micro 4/3 cameras as I like the idea of the simplicity of an all in one.

I guess for my interest, it seems like the LX5 or G1X would work well. Do you think something like the Canon SX230 (actually its successor) can produce nice 5x7 or an occasional 8x10 print when needed?

Again, with the idea of trying to keep it simply, the lens cap on the LX5 is something might want to avoid. Like the idea of a high quality, simple camera I can put in Auto mode, take with me when ever and where ever, and know I am going to get good quality pictures.



It depends again on how serious you are or you think you will be. Most point and shoots look pretty good if you are going to just look at the photos on a 13" LCD laptop screen, in Facebook, or making small 4x6" prints. But if you like to pixel peep (i.e. look at images at 100% on a big LCD) or make big prints, then image quality and resolution definitely become an issue. Personally, $800 is a lot to leave the camera just on auto. $800 can get you most of the Micro4/3 cameras, the Sony NEX5n, and also DSLR's like the Rebel T3i and Nikon 5100. You will gain the ability to change lenses in the future. But the tradeoff is a slightly larger package than the G1X. And perhaps getting lens buying addiction (a.k.a. "LBA"), which can get really costly! :)
 

Lili

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Lili
Have heard mixed reviews on the latest Fuji F cameras. Just noticed they came out with the F660EXR; not sure if there are many if any improvements from the F600EXR, but it is really geared towards someone who use Auto nearly all of the time or do you have to mess with the modes alot? Not interested in RAW, solely JPEG.

Ryan, the improvements are incremental. However I have heard it said the quality control on the lenses is much better. On mine the lens is quite good. As to use on full auto; EXR mode is actually very very good at figuring out which mode you need.
One could happily use it that way and have a very high percentage of 'keepers'.
I got mine of of nostalgia form my former F200 and F70EXR's (both given to friends).
I am pleasantly surprise by just how well it does.
6677759813_b063b893c5_b.jpg

this is straight out of camera save for a slight crop and a touch of sharpening.
Shot in P mode, M resolution, ISO Auto(1600), DR 400%.
1/60 sec, F4.8, ISO 125, 82mm-e
 

Armanius

Bring Jack back!
Location
Houston, Texas
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Jack
I know what you mean, I am trying to find a happy balance. :)

Don't want the expense or complexity of the micro 4/3 cameras as I like the idea of the simplicity of an all in one.

I guess for my interest, it seems like the LX5 or G1X would work well. Do you think something like the Canon SX230 (actually its successor) can produce nice 5x7 or an occasional 8x10 print when needed?

Again, with the idea of trying to keep it simply, the lens cap on the LX5 is something might want to avoid. Like the idea of a high quality, simple camera I can put in Auto mode, take with me when ever and where ever, and know I am going to get good quality pictures.

Here's the link to DPReview's comparison of travel zooms, including the SX230: 'Compact Travel Zoom' Camera Group Test (Q3 2011) Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Here's a review from Cameralabs.com for the SX230. I like Gordon's website a lot, and he also talks about how the SX230 compares to its Sony, Panasonic and Nikon counterparts: Canon PowerShot SX230 HS review | Cameralabs

I've never used the SX230, but I'm pretty sure you will be able to print good 5x7" photos. As for 8x10", it might depend on the shooting conditions. If it's really dark, you may get a little bit of noise on prints of that size.

On the other hand, I don't do enough prints. So maybe someone with more print experience in the forum will chime in. Anybody?
 

Armanius

Bring Jack back!
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Houston, Texas
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Jack
@Lili - nice photos from the Fuji!

@Ryan - you may want to check out the Fuji too. Lili seems to like it a lot. Here's a positive review of the Fuji F600EXR. The review provides some performance comparisons with the SX230 (i.e. frames per second, focus speed). Looks like the Fuji is faster than the Canon. Fujifilm FinePix F600EXR Camera Review
 

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