Sony Trying to make a decision is too difficult

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

I can understand some of your frustrations with Sony, but keep your priorities straight–you appear to want a smallish camera that can take good photos of rambunctious children. And for that, the A6000 appears to be one of the best. So look carefully before you leap, because this leap on principle may result in blurry photos.

Thanks John! I think this is a great point! There was a reason why I chose the NEX 6 over the Fuji line as a move from Sony A-Mount. I also made a conscious move to the a6000 (this is because is was basically $350 with the Zeiss 16-70 which I was planning on buying anyway as a replacement for my A-Mount Zeiss 16-80) instead of jumping ship at that time to move to Fuji.

I think what the biggest reason for my frustration has been some of the problems I had with focus points on the NEX 6 - which is why I wanted to move to the a6000 - and then the delay in getting the a6000 body, and now the continued delay in getting the lens. I do tend to get frustrated when I make a large purchase and then find out that what I bought is being replaced a couple of months later (this happened on the NEX 6 after I bought it in October of 2013 and, on a separate, more annoying note, when I bought my iPad 3 exactly 31 days before the announcement of the iPad 4), but I deal with technology as my job, so I totally understand...

Given all of that, i think it is important that I stick with what I have, learn how to use it, and start taking better pictures as I learn the intricacies of the system I have.

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

I'd say Sony's biggest weakness (in the APS version of their E-Mouint bodies anyway) is their ability to roll out a full compliment of lenses. But their bodies are quite good (if you're OK with their unique controls) and their QC is quite good. So if you're happy with your lens lineup with your Sony gear, I'd sit tight. For my money, Fuji has the upper hand with lenses, particularly their primes, which are almost uniformly excellent. Their bodies have controls I'm pretty familiar with, but their X-Trans sensor has worn somewhat thin on me. It's not the low light beast some would have you believe - similar to the other current APS sensors really, and a lot of people jump through all sorts of hoops to find a processor they're happy with doing raw conversions from the current line of Fujis. I've also gotta report way too many Fuji QC issues lately. They've actually been happening going back to the X100, but I only recently got bit by them. I had an XT1 I had to send in twice for repairs of common problems and the finally had to replace it. And then I sold all of my Fuji gear not long ago and I actually got complaints - first time I've EVER had complaints about stuff I've sold, about lenses not working with bodies and sub-standard lenses. They all got resolved but it was not fun to deal with. As nice as Fuji's gear is when you get a good copy, there are too many issues with their gear for me to really feel comfortable with it lately.

-Ray

Thanks Ray! I had not heard about so many QC issues with Fuji. I think that is because I was too busy being frustrated with AF point issues on my NEX 6 (which have now been resolved with a factory reset after the latest update) and not paying attention to Fuji concerns. I think I felt like I was caught up in a QC problem of my own and saw Fuji as an almost perfect option for me because I love my X20 oh so much. The X20 is not the same as the mirrorless and I use it very specifically for an every day carry and not for planned shooting.

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

I don't have any wisdom on what choice to make, just a reminder that whatever choice you make is not final. Not in any way. So, don't sweat it too much. I know, you lose money if you change systems over and over again, but I think you have to consider that a reasonable fee for the lack of ability to make a choice and stick with it. That's what I tell myself anyway.

As for the choice at hand, I've tried to make nice with NEX a couple of times, and I believe the IQ is there if you shoot raw and post process a bit, but ultimately I've gone away from them because (1) I'd rather shoot nice JPEGs and (2) the lenses just aren't to my liking. But you have to decide based on your criteria, obviously. I'd recommend giving more weight to the camera and how you interact with it and less to your feelings about the company.

Demiro you are exactly right: it is not final, I can always change and it is just an issue of $'s which can be planned for an mitigated so that it becomes less of an issue. The other key point is that is "a reasonable fee for the lack of ability to make a choice and stick with it". Brilliant way of looking at it, and so true!!!

I do need to appreciate the fact that the interactions with the a6000 are so much closer to my Sony DSLR days and are therefore comfortable and easy to use. It also adds a TON of new features and customization which make it even a better fit. I am very comfortable with the menuing and interaction with my X20 which translates very well to the other X-Series, but I am still not as "in tune" with it like I was with my Sony DSLR.

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

Among the pre-eminent mirrorless sytems I don't think that there is a single one that isn't extremely capable, be it Sony, Fujifilm, Samsung, or Micro 4/3. Each has evolved along slightly differently lines however so you'll need to choose what you value most. Do you really need to do an immediate cleanout of one system for the other, or can you dip your toes in the Fuji waters with something like a second-hand X-E1 and 18-55mm to see how you like it?

Nic, I really hadn't thought of the option to pic up a second-hand X-E1 (or even and X-E2 after a bit of time passes) with the 18-55. I think that I could probably keep on the path that I am on, and then pick up a Fuji X-E1 or 2 later on. The cost of doing that will probably work out to be about the same as the loss I would take from a wholesale of my existing gear. As long as my wife never finds out, I can justify that one pretty easily! I have so many different cameras now that she just rolls her eyes anyway. ;-)

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

One of the good thing about this forum is that it's a "whatever suits your needs" forum when it comes to gear selection. Nic already said that most systems deliver fantastic results. And Paul summarized it by saying"follow your heart". And like Ray, I do believe that any company ou there has service issues. My advice would be: collect the facts, sleep on it, and listen to your inner voice.

I am not familiar with the sonys but I am happy with the X-T1. It is fast enough for photographing moving objects and I like the IQ. The older systems are slower. A thing I really like about Fuji as well is their commitment to improving functionality via firmware upgrades.

Does your AD allow you to use the system for a week or so to test it?

Pniev, that is the reason why I reached out on this forum instead of to TalkeMount or on FujiXspot; I knew I would get really good, unbiased input because I was not reaching out on a specific system forum! This has been such great advice from everyone and is exactly what I need!

My AD does allow for a short, 7 day refund, or a 30 day in-store credit. They are being a little flexible with me on this latest purchase because Sony has not been able to deliver both the a6000 and Zeiss 16-70 (that I paid for both in May) yet. The AD has really been great to work with except for a few minor communication issues that they have remedied after I let them know what I was experiencing. They have also really pushed for Sony to get the 16-70 ASAP which has been the catalyst for this since they are saying they can get my lens OR move me into the Fuji system in about the same timeframe. I am a sucker for buying from local companies so I have really stuck with these guys.

To your point about improving functionality via firmware upgrades, this is one of the areas that has made me think that Fuji is a better choice than Sony since I see Sony continually falling down in this all the time except for a few of their key, strategic camera bodies, while Fuji seems to have a longer term commitment to their customers and cameras instead of trying to replace/refresh via hardware. At least this is what I have seen from Fuji with the X-E2 and X-100 updates. Maybe I am missing the bigger picture with Fuji, but it sure feels like there is a commitment from them that does not exist with Sony.

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

Bottom line - if the OP likes the Fuji stuff, the QC probelms might not affect him at all and can certainly be worked around if they do. Fuji's service is great and their firmware update history is extremely admirable. As noted, their prime lenses are as good as any in the mirrorless world. I'm not recommending that anyone not buy Fuji gear if that's what they want. But, as with any other manufacturer, they have their issues too. There's no perfect make of cameras out there...

-Ray

Thank you for all of this input Ray! If nothing else, you have made me realize that Fuji may not be this absolute perfect, "Holy Grail" of systems for me. The fact that Fuji has it's own issues that may, in the most general terms, be similar to what I experienced with my NEX 6 helps me realize that my vision of Fuji may be a bit skewed and is ultimately only causing me grief. The difference in firmware update "policy" (for lack of a better term) does seem to be a real difference between Sony and Fuji and I have not been too far off from there. I don't like swapping out cameras very much (I still have a Minolta XD-11 and Fuji AX-5 that are very functioning shooters that I still enjoy using, and I have a feeling that I will be keeping my X20 until it no longer functions) so the firmware updates and that commitment from Fuji - even if it is shorter term than I give credit - are important considerations for me.

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

If you are shooting low light, stay with the Sony...I have been down the Fuji road before and while their pictures look great at low ISO, they are just the opposite at higher ISO. a6000 is a really awesome camera...I do agree that Sony as a company for support, and update really stink. Having been a long time Nikon and Sony guy I have learned to look past most of that and realize they do make really nice sensors which is the heart of your camera....

Zx7dave thanks! I had been hearing that there was less noise at higher ISO, but had no experience to compare. The sensor in the a6000 does seem to produce manageable noise. The sensor and usability really are the most important (not counting lenses here) tools to make sure that I take pictures and that they are of good quality (not counting photographic skill here either)! ;-)

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

Thank you all for your input and help!!!

I think that I have decided to stick with my a6000 and wait a bit longer for the Zeiss 16-70 to come in. I will probably sell off the A-Mount lenses that I can, or already have replaced. I will keep my LA-E2 for future capability as well as my Sony flashes with the adapter to work with the MI shoe. I will keep all of my adapter for manual focus lenses that I use. I am considering keeping the NEX 6, but that will all depend on what my wife sees in the collection (one of her contingencies for me getting the a6000 so soon after I bought the NEX 6 was that I sell the NEX 6). ;-)

My other thoughts are that I just need to clean out some of my unused gear... I might sell off some of my older, film bodies and lenses that are just sitting on shelves if I don't have a personal connection to them. I would rather have them go to people who would find use in them instead of them just being "art". Maybe I could get them tested and repaired and then donate them to a high-school photography program so that kids can get exposure to manual control and the joys of actual film.

I can always wait until second-hand prices come down a bit more on the Fuji X-E1 or 2 and the 18-55 to have that as an option as well.

I think that this will be a great, realistic plan. Thank you all again for the input and thoughts! You have really helped me become sane person again ;-)

...until my next point of obsession: should I go with the Sony ECM-XYST1M or go the route of an external audio recorder like the Tascam DR-07mkII??????

 

[Ray Sachs]

Zx7dave thanks! I had been hearing that there was less noise at higher ISO, but had no experience to compare. The sensor in the a6000 does seem to produce manageable noise. The sensor and usability really are the most important (not counting lenses here) tools to make sure that I take pictures and that they are of good quality (not counting photographic skill here either)! ;-)

Fuji is somewhat known for low noise at high ISO, but it's never that simple. For one, part of that seems to be a characteristic of the X-Trans sensor which trades off some noise for some detail. Some folks say Fuji applies NR to even their raw files at high ISO, others say they don't, but there's clearly some loss of detail along with the slightly cleaner look. The other thing that's going on, though, and this tends to be a rather fraught subject, is that Fuji inflates it's ISO figures from somewhere between about 1/2 of a stop to a full stop. All of my back of the envelope testing showed it pretty close to a full stop, but more techncailly educated folks than me say it's closer to 1/2 or 2/3 of a stop (including the reviewers at DPR). My experience testing my X-Pro 1 and later X-E1 and XT1 against various other cameras was that for the same scene in the same light with the same effective focal length and the same aperture and the same ISO, the Fuji selected a shutter speed nearly twice as long as the other cameras (from Olympus, Nikon, Sony, and Ricoh in my case, and I've heard of other similar tests showing the same thing with other makes as well). Fuji is not a bad low light camera by a long shot. I did tons of low light shooting with various Fujis and have been quite happy with it. It's just not head or shoulders (or even dandruff) better than it's competitors among APS and m43 bodies. It slots right in there when all is said and done. If you like detail at high ISO, you might like it less than some of the others - if you like smooth creamy lack of noise at high ISO, you might like it more. But it's not more than very slightly better or worse than it's competitors...

-Ray

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

Thanks Ray! Learning about the combination of exaggerated or inflated ISO numbers as well as noise at higher ISO levels, which is at least on par with the competition, really help to make me feel less emboldened to make a change from Sony over to Fuji.

During the last couple of days I have learned more about the "imperfections" of the Fuji option through this forum, than I have heard over the past year! I think this all goes to show me that no matter how hard I want to make it be, the grass is not always greener on the other side...

 

[NkedFatWhiteGuy]

Well, surprisingly, my Zeiss 16-70mm came in today! I wasn't able to pick it up until late so not mush use yet aside from shots of my grouchy old cat. She wasn't happy about it, but she made a good enough model for low light, ISO 1600 shots.

So far, I am very excited about it! I am hoping that it stays that way [emoji6]! It feels right and is giving me hope that the a6000 is go I ng to be a good choice.