Fuji Went to a camera store with one purpose and then this happened...

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mesmerized

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Hello there,

I went to a local camera store with a printed email (I had inquired about the prices and got some decent discounts) to buy a Sony A7r2 with 1 or 2 small lenses. Heavy heart accompanied me as the thought of spending a lot while still being invested in my m43 gear rambled in my mind. Nonetheless, I was ready to walk in and get it but then... the shop assistant says to me "Would you like to look at some of our current promotions on Fuji gear?" I looked at him with a brief moment of hesitation that surely showed an internal struggle and then... I agreed. Ugh. So... Here's the deal:

1. Fuji X-T20 body - $950 (still, quite high, compared to B&H prices)
Promotion prices + Free 16GB card + Self-redeem battery + 16GB card + Sirui Bag + 1 x Print voucher + Instax Mini 25 Hello Kitty Camera + Dry Box + Tripod valid till 31 December 2017

2. Fuji X-T2 body - $1675
Free 16GB card + Self-redeem battery + 16GB card + BLC-XT2 + 1x Print voucher + VPB-XT2 + Dry Box valid till 31 December 2017

I really don't know what to do now. I was going there with the intention of buying a FF camera and left with a lot of mixed thoughts... Told them I had to (re)think everything. I used to own X-T1 and even though I loved the manual controls/dials and the overall feel of the body and lenses, I wasn't happy with the image quality (foliage was really mushy) so I'm not sure if going back to Fuji is a smart choice. On the other hand, I hear that the new sensor is a major improvement.

Anyway, if anyone wants to comment on my stream-of-consciousness-kind-of-rant, please do. Cheers.
 
I have the XT1 and although I'm sure the new sensors are better, I've never had a lack of detail. Which lens were you using if I may ask and were you shooting wide open? Now to address your question. B&H has the XT 20, 18-55, 32gig card and small bag for 1099.00. This is a 300.00 plus dollar lens that is a very good one. I have one and use it a lot. I would not go for a kit tripod.
As far as Sony FF goes I have no experience with them but I did come from Nikon FF D700 to here. The newer FF sensors are fantastic but so is the Fuji Trans-X sensors. To me this would be a personal choice. Try both of them if possible, then you will have real world experience to base your decision on. Good luck.
 
I have an XE2 - which has the older 16mp sensor, and I have an XPro2 - with the updated sensor and to my old tired eyes there is a fairly substantial difference. I was never satisfied with landscape shots with the XE2. This summer I went to Rocky Mtn Natl Park with the XPro2 and the 10-24. I found the detail and tonality excellent, as good as my FF Canon 5D2 which I admit is somewhat long in the tooth but produces beautiful files in decent light. I agree with Tim. I would try both; take a couple cards and shoot each, then compare the files and see how they resonate with you.
 
Tim Williams said:
I have the XT1 and although I'm sure the new sensors are better, I've never had a lack of detail. Which lens were you using if I may ask and were you shooting wide open?
Click to expand...

Hi Will and thanks for the post. My X-T1 was paired with that kit lens and I really disliked the results. I mean... I don't have a single (sic!) picture of a landscape with foliage from that period that I'm happy about. Mushy greens were infuriating.

Wish I could just rent both cameras and spend a week or two testing them... But renting here is damn pricey.
 
It might be pricey but might keep you from making a more expensive mistake buying the wrong setup.
 
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If you need Full Frame, than only Full Frame will do. Fuji won't cut it, period.

As for the mushiness, I can't help but think this is part of the RAW conversion by third-party applications (i.e., anything other than Silkypix or RFC). That's just a guess, but the terms are familiar based upon long ago threads about leaves etc.
 
I agree 100% with Covey... if you've got a bug for ff sensors, then you're always going to wonder. Any little thing you can find to dislike in the APSC files, that thing in your brain is going to whipser "wouldn't have happened on a full frame sensor, mate." If you can't rationalize that voice into silence, then you're going to have to go for the Sony. It will always eat at you, make you second guess everything you're doing. For some people, it works out great. Others regret it and take a loss. I wish there were better advice.
 
Kyle nailed it. And Sony does make excellent cameras. Of course if you're jonesing for a large sensor camera, the Fuji medium format should be looked at :daz:
 
It's hard when deals come up and everything sounds enticing. I was all Fuji for years, then went back to Canon FF and loaded up on a few lenses. Then I was getting fed up with my Canon stuff and wanted to stick to a FF setup I would be happy with. I went the same route and hopped on the Sony train. I love it. Now, with that said, I was pairing my Sony stuff with a Ricoh GR II as my backup for EDC, but that recently changed as well. A few days ago I went ahead and bought the x100F to try out, as I loved my x100, S and T. Still on the fence about parting with the GR, but I'm liking the setup of pairing the Sony with the Fuji stuff.

I would keep exploring the Sony stuff if I were you. The lenses can be costly, but I really love my A7II (cause I'm a peasant) with my Sony and Canon adapted lenses. The XT20 prices here are a bit lower and I debated getting one instead of the F, but I knew I was already in the clear with IL stuff with my Sony, and I really just needed a fixed lens compact with the new 24mp sensor. The F was the only way.

Go with what you really really want. The other stuff can seem tempting, but what happens a month in when you regret not getting that FF?
 
My way out of this conundrum was to get a cheap used D800. It's really not that much bigger than the Sony when pairing AF lenses and native lenses are considerably cheaper, plus you get 36 megapickles. So I continue with the much more enjoyable and easier to use Fuji setup and have the FF gear sitting there in the corner whenever the FF lust pops up. And do I *need* FF? Haha, probably not.
 
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rayvonn said:
My way out of this conundrum was to get a cheap used D800. It's really not that much bigger than the Sony when pairing AF lenses and native lenses are considerably cheaper, plus you get 36 megapickles. So I continue with the much more enjoyable and easier to use Fuji setup and have the FF gear sitting there in the corner whenever the FF lust pops up.
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Being a Nikon man, I like the way you worked through that.
 
I hear a serial disappointed buyer in the initial post and follow-ups. Or maybe more accurately a pixel peeper....because I have never seen this "mushiness". But if it bothered you the first time, it will bother you again. Just buy the Sony. You'll be happy you did.
 
Luke said:
I hear a serial disappointed buyer in the initial post and follow-ups. Or maybe more accurately a pixel peeper....because I have never seen this "mushiness". But if it bothered you the first time, it will bother you again. Just buy the Sony. You'll be happy you did.
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I find that once you take responsibility for how your images come out, this "what if" thought process actually works the other way and in Fuji's favour. It's sort of how I ended up with Fuji.
 
Most people do not need full frame sensors, they want full frame sensors. In the early days of digital, full frame sensors offered better dynamic range and high iso performance. But we are far from the early days of digital.
 
Luke said:
I hear a serial disappointed buyer in the initial post and follow-ups. Or maybe more accurately a pixel peeper....because I have never seen this "mushiness". But if it bothered you the first time, it will bother you again. Just buy the Sony. You'll be happy you did.
Click to expand...

I definitely saw mushiness and lack of sharpness in the files coming from X-T1, which was a real shame because I loved the feel the camera offered. And that "feel" still attracts me to Fuji, for better or worse; that's why I was (or am) hoping that X-T2/X-T20 sensor somehow managed to get rid of the foliage mushiness... I wish Fuji just released X-T2 with a Bayer sensor. I don't really see what advantages the X-Trans sensor really brings to the table. And yes, unfortunately, I have to admit that I sometimes fall into the trap of pixel-peeping... :(

I'm quite happy with m43, but I do need more megapixels, more DR, and more control over DoF. The last one could be solved by getting the PRO lenses (the new 45mm with f/1.2 for instance) but they are really pricey. Surprisingly, Sony offers some excellent lenses at a very reasonable price (Sony FE85mm f/1.8 is a prime example of an excellent prime)

For me, an ideal mirrorless camera would be a camera designed by Olympus or Fuji (those two brands have the best controls and the best design, IMHO) either with a APS-C Bayer sensor, or a FF sensor.
 
As mentioned above, which raw processor you use greatly impacts the files. Also, sharpening the Fuji files in Lightroom requires a different approach than with other camera's raw files. Capture One, Iridient, Silky Pix, and OnOne Raw have proven to be really good with Fuji files. Although LR has come a long way with the last round of updates.
 
I went to a camera store today and spent 2 hours chatting with some folks about Fuji. Had a chance to hold X-T20, X-Pro2, X-T2, X-E3 and a X100F. I also had a chance to fiddle with Sony A7r2. I definitely love the joystick on the X-E3 but not so much on the X-T2 (not sure why but it definitely didn't feel the same) X-T20 was almost... cute. But! I was really surprised to see that the new X cameras don't seem to focus that fast after all. I did a quick test with the 35mm f/1.4 (a nightmare, but it was to be expected) and two f/2 primes (much better, but still... maybe I'm spoiled by Olympus) Sony also lags in this department and the worst of the worst was A7r2 with a 50mm cheap FE lens.

Conclusions: I'm considering staying with Olympus and getting a new lens instead of getting a new camera. That being said, X-T20 and X-E3 were fun to play around with and I wouldn't mind having one of them with a nice prime attached.
 
This my own advice based on my own experience which may or may not help anyone considering Fuji.

At some point (and certainly in my case), it will come down to the fact that a good image is dependent on the idiot behind the camera and not the camera. Another way of viewing it is that it's the camera that's the idiot and it's up to you to make it intelligent, telling it what to do, not the other way around. Making a provision for what the camera's good at and not so good at and applying that to how you shoot in camera and/or how you PP. Also, are you happy with how the camera feels in hand? (this is vitally more important than how the camera looks). Without getting over these hurdles, you will never get the best out of your system which will show in your images and inevitably leave you looking elsewhere. It's a fair bit to consider before a purchase but unless you do, then Fuji will be a bad choice. You have to buy in and be certain you want it. This only my opinion and I'm certainly no guru - it took me 2 or 3 years from liking it, considering it and then finally purchasing.
 
Well, Any camera is better than no camera. I routinely seek out bargain lens (less than 50.00). These have served me well. Believe me I can shoot just as well with Canon, Nikon Sony, Fuji , Olympus ad nauseam. It doesn't matter as long as I get out and shoot. Pick a platform and go shooting, They're all better than we are. When you get better than a Nikon, Canon or Fuji, Olympus let me know, because then my man you have mastered Photography, Something I will venture to say no one has done. Apologies Ansel.
 

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