What happened to the bicycle industry (UK)?

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

Sorry if the title sounds a bit click bait-y.
I am no enthusiast cycler or sporty in any way, I just love to bike around, I know very little about bikes or the bike industry. But I am asking because I have fallen in quite the rabbit hole.

It started with wanting to start biking after 7 years of not doing it after I moved to UK, I had to leave my bike behind, didn't have room for one for many years, didn't have the money for one and then life got in the way.
I noticed on Argos they had a sale for electric bikes and it got me thinking and wanting.
I have two difficulties that I can't overcome easily:
*I went from 139 KGs in April to 123 KGs last week by this is as much as I can lose just on food and eating habits. I can't lose more without exercise. Most bikes have a manufacturer stated limit of 100 KGs for skinny tired and lightweight bikes (Road and Racing), 120 KGs on most MB and Hybrids, and only the Gravel/Touring ones have a stated load of 170 KGs. I have broken metal peddals, hundreds of punctures, wobbly wheels, broken breaks because of my weight and I am quite weary about build quality and resilience of a bike.
*I can't handle hills (even walking), being overweight is hard enough but I had breathing difficulties my entire life, my knees are not doing great anymore. I was hoping for an electric bike to help me get pass the hills because I live in a very hilly area (even my neighbourhood is on top of a hill)but also because I tend to push myself physically beyond what I can do safely and often I run out of energy to make it back home (happened today on the 3 hour walk).

I joined a cycling forum and asked opinions about the Argo's E-Move Premium 28” electric hybrid bike and their opinions where not great. When I checked for reviews there were none on the internet and when I checked the customer reviews a lot of them mention failure in less then a week with things falling apart.
So I was advised for other options and I dropped the hope for electric since I wanted something under 500 £. 2nd hand I couldn't find around my area for me to pick it up. I spent hours looking for a hybrid bike around 200-300 £ but most reviewers and some customers were complaining about the poor built quality of components, falling apart withing weeks or months of use.
I looked for hours on Halfords and Decathlon websites for options and this is where things went weird. Looking for reviews on different models under 500 £ I found many commenting on the reviews as advertisments and agenda, people calling Halfrauds for bad quality and poor repairs and customers services. I kept getting pushed into the 1000 £ bikes looking for something that would be reliable.
Yesterday evening I was so frustrated that I was starting to look at 1000-1500 £ bikes with finance options just to find something and watching YouTube reviews someone was talking about a VALUE selection of bikes for 2000 £.
So many people I've read comment sections (I'm not surprised by the human nature on the Internet, I lived it for the last 25 years) blaming LBS (Local Bike Shops) for fooling people into things they don't need or want, blaming big chains like Halfords and Declathlon of pushing cheap crap that's designed to break fast and make people buy every year new bikes and giving money to YouTubers and written reviewers for positive reviews. It's like a damn Mexican Standoff with everyone pointing loaded guns and everyone else.

When did a value bike got to 2000 £ point? When did a 1000 £ bike not hold up in quality and reliability? How did bicycle got so expensive.
I do understand the price of engineering and quality parts, (yeah, a Tour Du France bike will cost a few thousand because they need to be the best) but how is it that a decent bike is at the cost of almost a minimum wage (before you even consider the living costs).

At the moment I'm not sure what to do. All I wanted is get out for the best time of the year and my favourite time of the year: autumn. To travel a bit farther, get there a bit faster then walking to catch sunrises, travel to hill tops and through forests, do more landscape photography, and with a bit of luck lose more weight too.
Even had the crazy idea (for the future) to put my little princess in a front basket and take her for a ride with me on adventures, do some light camping.

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

One addendum is I have seen one British bike manufacturer claiming that their bikes with sealed in batteries for the electric motor is a design choice because of you would ever need a battery replacement it's just better to buy a new bike.
Which is a huge waste of resources and damaging to the economy and mother nature to waste large lithium batteries like that.
I would never support such a company with such bad policy.

 

[JensM]

Being that you are in the UK, I think I would look for any reasonable second hand Dawes Galaxy tourer, there seems to a be a lot of them at ebay.uk at the moment, ranging from £10 and up with the most between £200-400 marks. I dont think you`ll go much wrong with one such, getting it serviced properly including trueing/tightening the wheels and doing whatever tweaks needed for a comfy ride. I would go for as wide as possible in tire width, I think the Galaxy supports up to 38 or 40 mm tires, also very well worth considering is platform pedals, I have even installed a set on the spin bike. Riding with those were a proper revelation for my size uk size 12 feet...

I ride with saddle and handlebars at the same height, no need to try to bend my large carcass down into the "optimal" racing position based off a 23 year old, 55 kilo semi-anorectic professional...

 

[John King]

All the best with your weight loss program, Ovi.

I've gone from 84.6 Kgs just before last Christmas to 74.6 Kgs this morning. I'm aiming for 70 Kgs, maybe by next Christmas.

My recipe:

1) Cut all food intake by 1/3 to 1/2. Very hard for the first week or so, now easy.

2) Cut out all sweet foods and drinks. Only drink is unsweetened coffee, low fat/high calcium milk (in small volumes, 1/4 to 1/3 of a small glass) or plain water. Targin makes my mouth and throat uncomfortably dry.

3) NO "treats", ever ... Even one, occasionally, can keep that desire/addiction alive.

4) As much walking/swimming as I can. My heart, skeletal and endurance problems limit both of these. I have a watch type pedometer that helps me keep track of exercise and weight.

The limiting factors:

1) Because I don't have a large intestine (total colectomy over 20 years ago), my diet is constrained in many ways. I must have certain foods in order for my guts to function. Some of these foods are not good for weight loss - e.g. full cream icecream, full pulp orange juice, nuts ... . Several medications I take do not help with this. Both Targin and Doubluts do not help, either ...

2) Exercise intolerance due to heart electrics, artificial mitral valve and chronic asthma since birth. Osteoporosis doesn't help. Neither does my knackered lumbar spine.

3) I'm slow and need to use a walking stick when walking, and around the house.

4) Dietary requirements because of Warfarin.

Keep up the good work, Ovi.

Starting is the hardest part!
Sticking to a healthy, reduced diet is the next hardest.
Do not get disheartened! Weigh in every morning at the same point (after waking, emptying your bladder). Keep a daily record. Do not beat yourself up if you go backwards a little. Every little bit lost is getting closer to a healthy weight.

Obesity and overweight is a massive health risk, as I'm certain that you are aware.

 

[Robo]

Good morning, Ovi.
I considered one of these as a means to get around cheaply and reducing knee and pudendal nerve irritation.
Even these types of bicycles can be expensive.

 

[mumu]

When did a 1000 £ bike not hold up in quality and reliability? How did bicycle got so expensive.

Batteries alone account for a significant portion of an e-bike's price. A £500 battery isn't uncommon.

I'm on an ebike group here in Canada. There were a couple of different posts from guys who were in the 125-150kg weight range that were looking for a bike. The owner of the bike company recommended a fat tired bike (nothing too crazy, something in the 2.75" tire width or wider) and a simple front fork without suspension. You can get something like a Rad Runner 2 for under £1000 and it is rated to support 136 kg. It's a utility bike so it also has lots of accessories available to carrying cargo. I see a lot of food delivery people using this type of bike. It's not a high end e-bike but Rad has a good reputation for standing behind their products, from what I've read. The step-thru frame makes it easy to get on, as well.

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

Thank you everyone.
The frustration was not as much on electric bike as in normal bikes.

I haven't made a decision yet but I will probably get a 500ish £ bike and add an electric motor kit later, possibly next spring.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Good on ya. During the corona lockdown I went on a massive weight loss kick, going from 113kg to 77 in roughly 14 months, through eating less and just bicycling/hiking.
But after the lockdown I lost incentive to ride my bike, partially due to a knee injury. ....at least the knee is feeling better now. But my weight went up again as I picked up my old eating habits.

So last month when I stepped on the scale to read a 100kg, I felt it was time to pick it up again.

I'm not much of a bike nut by any means, been out riding on a cheapish MTB over the last year. Before that I used simple gentleman's 3-speed.
No idea about weight limits on any of them.
I commute with it once or twice a week (40min total per day) and on weekends I try to get in at least 1-hour's worth.
Electric bikes do nothing for your stamina/condition.

I use a free calorie tracker app called "Food" in combination with an exercise tracker app "VirtuaGym" from the same company.
This sets a daily intake goal based on the weight you want to achieve within an acceptable time period.

 

[Briar]

Good morning, Ovi.
I considered one of these as a means to get around cheaply and reducing knee and pudendal nerve irritation.
Even these types of bicycles can be expensive.View attachment 411545

I've got one similar to this. Brought it over from Bratislava. It's great fun. I love Scooters.

Ovi, you are better off starting with a normal/manual bike rather than an electric one and just build up your stamina. If you cycle often it shouldn't take you long. Cycling or any exercise is good for you but you can't exercise away a bad diet. If you want to lose weight find an eating plan that works for you and stick with it. Losing weight is the easy bit, keeping it off after you lose weight is the hard bit as it's human nature to revert back to the bad habits that made you put weight on in the first place so choose a programme that includes a maintenance plan that you can follow without feeling deprived then you are more likely to stick to it. If you have any health conditions, speak to your doctor before starting any diet/exercise programme. Good luck!

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

I've got one similar to this. Brought it over from Bratislava. It's great fun. I love Scooters.

Ovi, you are better off starting with a normal/manual bike rather than an electric one and just build up your stamina. If you cycle often it shouldn't take you long. Cycling or any exercise is good for you but you can't exercise away a bad diet. If you want to lose weight find an eating plan that works for you and stick with it. Losing weight is the easy bit, keeping it off after you lose weight is the hard bit as it's human nature to revert back to the bad habits that made you put weight on in the first place so choose a programme that includes a maintenance plan that you can follow without feeling deprived then you are more likely to stick to it. If you have any health conditions, speak to your doctor before starting any diet/exercise programme. Good luck!

Thank you. It's a bit more complicated for me. I have been using the Oviva NHS programme to have better eating habits since April and it work decently enough.
The difficulty with diet is I have a severe problem where I get very bad shakes and anemia like symptoms if I stay hungry for to long (same with eating to little). I can manage to a certain degree when I'm at home or outside but it terrifies me when I'm at work because I have people depending on me and I can't have my body fail me. The trembling is bad enough that I can't even hold a spoon still enough and when I get the dizziness and cold shivers I know I have at most half an hour to eat something before I'm unable to stay on my feet.
So I'm afraid to be hungry, I keep sweets in all my bags because of this as emergency because they will help me keep going for a bit longer though the crash will be even worse after that.
I have checked and it's not diabetes BUT I am pre-diabetic from high Carbohydrates colesterol and my weight. Since then I avoid bread and pasta where I can and try to keep potatoes at minimum and wholemeal bread only.
Other issues I had (some overcommed) is the price hike of food last winter, very low budget for food for almost a year now though things are getting better.
I also lived my entire life with cooking and eating of large family gatherings, I only know how to make large pots of meals and I'm used to eating the same thing for a few days before making something else. Luckily I'm not a fussy eater and I eat almost anything and I don't mind microwave reheating at all. That makes eating by T plate model and making specific healthy servings witb very picked ingredients near impossible.
I eat less then I am used to and that's by using smaller plates and bowls and trying to eat less but more often though that has affected my daily life and routine (especially at work, I had hundreds of problems with staff complaining I take to many breaks or eating to early compared to them).
I avoid most of the bad eeting habits, I can't afford takeaways, I have at most once per month (usually payday) but on most months I don't do it because I can live for a week with the cost of one takeaway. I don't buy or keep snacks at home so I don't have to worry about those (though I do eat them on rare occasions at work) and the only sweets I have is the emergency menthos in each bag and a chocolate in my main bag which I don't touch unless I have to. I don't normally have a sweet tooth at all.
My GP (doctor) is all but useless, the only thing he tells me is to lose weight and everything magically goes away even though some of the problems are preventing me to lose weight.
I had to self refer myself to NHS weight loss programs, which Oviva was one option I was given. I need to lose enough weight to be able to gain back my mobility to do exercises without risking of breaking something. My knees are very shady from the strain of my weight and the camera bag/backpack every time I went out and my radius distance of being able to travel was reduced severy in the last 3 years. I was close to breaking my ligaments and knees from pushing myself to far a few times.
I'm not much into gym exercises and sports, I rather prefer to hike and cycle and mostly alone and away from people, if I can include photography even better for my mental health and motivation.

First time I gain weight was living in Italy with my mom, didn't have much work opportunities and I did become to sedentary, I went up to 127 KGs which was the heaviest I have ever been in my life, I lost almost 25 KGs after moving back to Romania for a year and I started cycling. Then I moved to UK 7 years ago and had to leave the bike behind and I got my weight back up to 123 KGs where I stayed until the pandemic. Because I was an essential worker I didn't stay locked in and I was at work almost every day but because I worked with extremely vulnerable people and I had ignorant housemates I had to give up on cooking for myself and live on microwaveble meals to stay away from the kitchen and not catch COVID, I did not want to have someone's death on my mind if I passed on COVID. Within a year I went to 135 KGs, I met my girlfriend at the end of 2020 and she had some pretty bad eating habits which was very difficult to shake off or manage and my wrigth got up to 142 KGs the heaviest. After my girlfriend passed away it was very difficult to get back any kind of motivation so I hurried my head into so much work I was basically more at work then at home and started losing weight, mostly because I was skipping meals andy health was declining.
I lost more weight then I expected or could hope for this year so I consider 2023 the most successful year for me and I don't mind if I don't lose any more weigth until spring. But my long term goal is to get down to 100 to 105 KGs, I don't mind being a bit extra, I enjoy being "fluffy", just enough to be cuddly like a pillow buy not jiggle like Jell-O when I brush my teeth. I don't care about cloths size or looks at all.

 

[JensM]

Firstly, congratulation on the weight loss achievement so far.

With some guesstimates as to activity level, height and age, your current weight brings with it a Basal Metabolic need at around 3-400 calories less, than your starting weight.

If you eat the same portions now, as when you started, you most likely will have reached a threshold where you eat as much as you need to fill the basal needs of calories, hence the stop in losing further weight.

This leaves you with three options: either drop further down in daily calories ingested or add some sort of extra movement to your daily routine or a combination of the two.

Someone stated above that you cant out-train a bad diet and there is much truth in that, you will most likely NOT have the needed energy levels to keep a decent training regime like that up for the duration needed, especially if you are doing a low carb diet.

Again based on guesstimates, your meals sound somewhat iffy to me. The staple of stews and other large scale cooking is normally carbohydrates and depending on what you call snacks, most of those are the same carbohydrates but with high contents of fats and sugars (simple carbohydrate which spikes and dumps your blood sugar and leaves you hungry after digesting) added.

The above may sound a bit harsh and the guesstimates may be somewhat off, but I have ended up with a BA in sports management from the Norwegian School of Sport Sciences, which included nutrition, as well practice in the field. I have done some calculations, and am not just regurgitating some bro-science.

That said, you are absoulutely on the right track, and I am willing to assist you more directly, either in public or by PMs, if you so fancy.

 

[Richard]

I haven't made a decision yet but I will probably get a 500ish £ bike and add an electric motor kit later, possibly next spring.

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but do think carefully about where the electric bike will be stored and charged. There was a piece on BBC news about this a few weeks ago. A fire officer talked through some hair-raising CCTV footage of electric bikes starting fires when left on charge. Apparently the batteries can go from feeling unusually warm to bursting into flames really quickly. As well as a lively fire, there's a release of ugly fumes (lithium vapour, I suppose, and a lot of plastic too) and either of those things could kill you if you're asleep nearby.

As I remember it, the fire officer's advice was; keep the bike outside if you can, don't keep it between you and your exit and don't charge it overnight or unattended.

-R

 

[CatsAreGods]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but do think carefully about where the electric bike will be stored and charged. There was a piece on BBC news about this a few weeks ago. A fire officer talked through some hair-raising CCTV footage of electric bikes starting fires when left on charge. Apparently the batteries can go from feeling unusually warm to bursting into flames really quickly. As well as a lively fire, there's a release of ugly fumes (lithium vapour, I suppose, and a lot of plastic too) and either of those things could kill you if you're asleep nearby.

As I remember it, the fire officer's advice was; keep the bike outside if you can, don't keep it between you and your exit and don't charge it overnight or unattended.

-R

A lot of this depends on the manufacturer. Cheap overseas brands are less likely to have proper battery management systems. But since most companies seem to go for easy short-term profits these days, for best results look into the actual design/engineering if you can. And that fire officer has some good ideas in any case.

 

[Richard]

... And that fire officer has some good ideas in any case.

I think he was from Manchester. He said how many such incidents the Manchester Fire Brigade attend in the city every month, and it was several.

-R

 

[L0n3Gr3yW0lf]

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, but do think carefully about where the electric bike will be stored and charged. There was a piece on BBC news about this a few weeks ago. A fire officer talked through some hair-raising CCTV footage of electric bikes starting fires when left on charge. Apparently the batteries can go from feeling unusually warm to bursting into flames really quickly. As well as a lively fire, there's a release of ugly fumes (lithium vapour, I suppose, and a lot of plastic too) and either of those things could kill you if you're asleep nearby.

As I remember it, the fire officer's advice was; keep the bike outside if you can, don't keep it between you and your exit and don't charge it overnight or unattended.

-R

Thank you. I saw that propping up in most places on the internet. The plan was to wall mount the bike in the kitchen to an external wall. If I had a mounted a battery on it it would be kept separately and charged only in daylight. Maybe adapt a firebox to keep it in.
I wouldn't trust the cheapest and oddest 3rd party brand, would go with genuine Samsung or LG battery if possible.
But that's not something I need to worry on the short term.

 

[AmritR]

Bicycles are ubiqious here in the Netherlands. Ebike sales have exploded. Then there was the VanMoof debacle. I spent some time ‘investigating‘ on buying a new bike earlier this year. The one thing I noticed was getting a bike from a dealer with a good workshop. Bicycles in general need good maintenance.

Good quality ebikes will be relatively expensive. Associated costs will also be higher. The average speed and weight of an ebike is just higher, which will also put higher strain on the chain/belt drive, brakes (!) wheels and so on. And the battery will start to wear down as well. An eBike is nice, it will expand your reach, but its definitely not cheap. And it won‘t add much if anything if you want to work out.

When it comes to ‘normal’ bicycles. They are priced far better, simpler, less wear and tear. No battery to worry about, lighter, a better work out, and less risk of theft. Just put a good chainlock on it, fixed to something.
And certainly here in the Netherlands and maybe in the UK as well, there is a large amount of second hand bikes available. Also because of the rise of ebike sales.

Another thing with the high prices for ebikes. It’s just booming business. They are flying of the shelves over here.

 

[John King]

Thank you. I saw that propping up in most places on the internet. The plan was to wall mount the bike in the kitchen to an external wall. If I had a mounted a battery on it it would be kept separately and charged only in daylight. Maybe adapt a firebox to keep it in.
I wouldn't trust the cheapest and oddest 3rd party brand, would go with genuine Samsung or LG battery if possible.
But that's not something I need to worry on the short term.

A burning Li-Ion, Li-FePo battery reaches around 5,000°C +, IIRC, and outgasses Cobalt compounds and other very nasty, very toxic things. Once they go into thermal runaway, they cannot be extinguished.

I won't even consider any Li-Ion type battery connected to our house and solar panels.

Aluminium/sulphur technology is a lot more promising, with cheaper, fireproof batteries that cannot burn, and will charge at roughly 1,000x the rate of any Li-Ion technology battery. Al/S batteries are becoming commercially available as I'm typing this. They are also cheaper and lighter than Li-Ion, with no rare earth or dangerous elements in them.

Our race to "go electric" for everything is outstripping any kind of sense or sensible regulation of very dangerous things.

 

[AmritR]

A burning Li-Ion, Li-FePo battery reaches around 5,000°C +, IIRC, and outgasses Cobalt compounds and other very nasty, very toxic things. Once they go into thermal runaway, they cannot be extinguished.

I won't even consider any Li-Ion type battery connected to our house and solar panels.

……..

What I’ve read and been told.

Preferably keep the battery charged between 30% and 80%.
Temperature while discharging/cycling is not that important.
Temperature while charging however is; preferably at room temperature.
Then, when necessary, depending on the distance you plan to cycle charge to 100%.
In general, avoid to drain the battery completely.
Make sure the battery is not dropped, or damaged. If you buy a second hand ebike, check the battery on dents/damage.
Get an ebike with bigger tires, and do not inflate the tires to hard. 2.5 to 3 bar is enough (also depending on your weight). Better for you, and the battery.

So preferably get an ebike with a removable battery, to charge in a warm place.
When you charge, be present AND awake.
Use the original charger.
Have a bucket with sand available (do not use water). Or the option to quickly throw the battery out of your house.
The battery should not become hot, just lukewarm. If it gets hot when charging, disconnect it, and replace it.

I did see some news about battery fires in American/UK press. But I haven’t read story’s about battery fires being an issue here within the Netherlands/EU. I’m obviously not a good all knowing source on that. But I do suspect that EU regulations have also something to do with this.

The main worry about ebikes and more recently ‘fat bikes’, are the high speeds and related accidents. That is a serious issue. The municipality of Amsterdam is working on legislation to get fat bikes out of use. Amsterdam did something like that in the past with scooters, which are mostly gone now. If A’dam is successful, other municipalities will follow, just like it happened with scooters.

In general, buy quality. An ebike with a Bosch, Shimano, Panasonic electric system in it. And preferably with a removable battery, and bigger 50mm tires.

I’m afraid the ‘Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness’ does apply to this subject: Boots theory - Wikipedia

 

[AmritR]

Having said that. I completely understand the urge to get out, and have an ebike to go places. Good for body and mind.

Opposed to what I wrote above, I bought a Trek ebike, with a built in battery
There were several reasons to get this bike, and I won’t bore people about that.

there is a lot of good info here on a Dutch forum. I ran it through Google translate:

Het grote elektrische fietsen topic deel 3 - Mobiliteit - GoT

gathering-tweakers-net.translate.goog

Maybe something like a cargo bike would be practical, also regarding weight. Very popular here in the Netherlands with the youth, and with the general public as well.
You gonna want to be able to transport a crate of beer. I have one myself. You can get them as a standard bicycle, or as an ebike.

Mine (non-ebike)

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One I recently made a picture off in a shop for my girlfriend. Ebike:

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And my own Trek ebike, which I use to get around, mostly for my health of mind:
(this winter I’ll have the steering column replaced, to get the steer higher).

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[Herman]

e-step from urbmob?
e-step kick & go, 600 euro, you got to 'kick' every 8 seconds.
www.urbmob.eu
info@